- 19
- Episodes
- 1
- Ratings
- 2025
- First episode
About The Art of Sales
Welcome to The Art of Sales, by Gray Matters – the podcast that redefines selling. Sales isn’t just about cold calls and spreadsheets; it’s a craft. We’re here to help you turn selling into a fulfilling pursuit by focusing on empathy, psychology, and truly understanding your audience. In a fast-changing world of new technologies, evolving buyers, and shifting economies, adapting is key. Whether you’re in sales, running a business, or leading marketing, this podcast will help you embrace change and continuously learn. No more sales-as-usual. This is The Art of Sales.
- Publisher
- Gray Matters
- Category
- business · business
- Language
- en
- Explicit
- No
- First episode
- 8 Sept 2025
- Latest episode
- 21 Jul 2026
Latest episodes
19 episodes in the feed.
21 Jul 2026
Cutting Through: Lessons from a PR Legend
Andrew Bloch built and exited Frank PR, one of the most talked about agencies in the country, before turning 26 years of contacts and experience into a portfolio spanning non-exec advisory, agency M&A, brand and agency matchmaking, and continued work alongside Lord Sugar. In this episode, he tells Adam Graham what actually made Frank stand out in a market where most agency brands are interchangeable, from a hand-drawn website that won design awards to a founding belief that a real USP has to be unusual rather than unique. Andrew is blunt about how few agencies get this right, and why "our people are passionate" isn't a differentiator at all. He also shares the discipline of brevity he's learned from one of Britain's busiest businessmen, and what buyers are really looking for when they acquire an agency. Show notes: https://andrewbloch.co.uk https://welcometofrank.com https://gray-matters.co https://gray-matters.co/podcast
17 Jun 2026
The Art of Winning Less
Kerry Gibson has spent over 12 years in new business, working at some of the world's most well-known agencies. In this episode, she sits down with Adam to talk about what it actually takes to win and why focus is the ingredient most agencies consistently underestimate. From a landmark Sainsbury's pitch won on the chemistry of an existing team, to the realisation that a new business director's real skill is packaging people rather than knowing everything, Kerry brings rare honesty to a role that is often misunderstood. She also talks about burnout, the importance of permission culture, and the line from a former manager that still pops into her head at 4pm every day. This is a conversation for anyone in new business who's ever felt the pressure of being all things to all people and the freedom of letting that go. Show notes: https://tmwunlimited.com https://gray-matters.co https://gray-matters.co/podcast
7 May 2026
The New Rules of Outbound
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam Graham speaks to Dan Englander, founder of Sales Schema and host of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast, about how outbound has changed and why agencies need to rethink the way they build relationships. Dan shares how his business moved from doing lead generation for agencies to helping them build and own their outreach function in-house. The conversation explores why old-school cold outreach has lost its edge, how AI is adding to the noise, and why trust has become the real currency in agency growth. Adam and Dan also discuss specialisation, referrals, founder involvement, LinkedIn, email deliverability, and why outbound should not be treated as a quick fix. It is a long-term system for building control, confidence and momentum in new business. Show notes: https://salesschema.com/ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-digital-agency-growth-podcast/id1455241251 https://gray-matters.co/ https://gray-matters.co/podcast
14 Apr 2026
From Gut Feel to Data-Led Sales
Most businesses choose a CRM before they understand their sales process. That, according to Mitch Richards, Chief of Staff at Future Group Agency, is where it all goes wrong. In this episode of The Art of Sales, Mitch breaks down what it actually takes to build a revenue operation that works, from mapping your full customer journey using the Bow Tie Funnel methodology, to configuring a pipeline your sales team will actually use. He shares a practical framework for pipeline health, a countdown-based approach to renewals management, and a clear-eyed view on why CRM adoption fails when the tool is built for IT rather than for sellers. Direct, experience-led, and refreshingly no-nonsense. This one is for anyone who wants their systems to serve their people, not the other way round. Show notes https://fg.agency https://gray-matters.co https://gray-matters.co/podcast
17 Mar 2026
The Brief is Never Just a Brief
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam is joined by Janita Lakhanpal, Business Development Director at Ketchum UK, to explore the real power behind great sales conversations. Janita shares how her first new business win started with one brave conversation at a trade show, and how her approach has evolved from trying to impress to creating genuine mutual value. They discuss the courage to ask direct questions, the instinct that comes from seeing hundreds of pitch decks, and why new business is far more creative than it’s often given credit for. The conversation also moves into leadership and inclusion. Janita explains why “you can’t be what you can’t see”, how Ketchum built its Inclusion Council, and why diverse teams connect faster and think wider. At its heart, this episode is about listening - to prospects, to teams and to yourself. Show notes https://www.ketchum.com/ https://gray-matters.co/ https://gray-matters.co/podcast
23 Feb 2026
Gravitas: The Difference Between Confidence and Arrogance
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam is joined by Catherine Allison to unpack why most pitches are won or lost long before the creative idea is judged. Drawing on the What Clients Think survey, Catherine explains why 71 percent of pitches fail due to softer factors like chemistry, confidence and how teams show up in the room. They explore the fine line between confidence and arrogance, why agencies often default to broadcast mode, and how pitching should feel more like a conversation than a performance. Catherine introduces the Gravitas Equation: Knowledge + Purpose + Passion - Anxiety = Gravitas. She explains how this balance helps teams communicate with authority without tipping into ego. From listening properly to understanding your value and being present with clients, this conversation is a reminder that winning business is as much about how you show up as what you show. https://mastertheart.co.uk/
9 Feb 2026
From Music Dreams to Sales Reality
In this episode, Chris Muldoon shares the story behind Punch, the sales and entertainment agency he co-founded after an early entrepreneurial stint in music. He explains how Punch evolved from a sports and entertainment agency into B2B lead generation and sales development, overcoming the challenges of commission-based models by adopting more scalable approaches. Chris reflects on key milestones, including implementing the EOS framework to bring structure and clarity to rapid growth, and navigating the cultural shifts brought on by remote working during COVID-19. He stresses the enduring value of human connection in sales, even as AI and automation reshape the landscape, and outlines Punch’s recent expansion into the U.S. market. Closing with advice for the next generation of salespeople, Chris champions focus, adaptability, and mastering the fundamentals as the keys to long-term success. https://www.punchb2b.com/
13 Jan 2026
Women in Sales: Leading without the Hard Sell
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam Graham sits down with Eniko Tarkany-Szucs, who leads strategic partnerships at LinkedIn, to explore what selling looks like when trust comes before targets. Eniko shares her career journey from early social media roles into SaaS, sales leadership and partnerships, reflecting on how her approach has softened over time as relationships became the real long game. They unpack why the best sales feels more like theatre than pressure, the importance of reading the room, and how confidence often matters as much as competence, especially for women in sales and tech. The conversation also dives into AI’s growing role in sales, where automation can help and where authenticity still matters most. From partnerships and pitching to culture, confidence and human connection, this episode is a reminder that great sales is rarely about pushing harder, and much more about understanding people better.
18 Dec 2025
2025 review: Agency Sales
In this short end-of-year solo episode of The Art of Sales, Adam reflects on what 2025 really felt like for agencies and founders. Not the highlight reel, but the realities beneath the surface. He touches on familiar themes from the year: longer sales cycles, tighter budgets, plenty of ghosting, and why being busy didn’t always feel secure. Adam also shares a few thoughts on how AI moved from novelty to normal, and why clear thinking and positioning matter more than ever. Looking ahead to 2026, he offers a handful of simple principles for navigating what’s next, with a reminder that clarity, consistency and human trust still win.
11 Dec 2025
Pitch Story: Creature London x Jose Cuervo
This episode of The Art of Sales takes us inside the global rebranding of Jose Cuervo - Adam Graham speaks with Hanisha Kotecha, former Client Chief Officer at Creature London and Aileen Cotter from Proximo Spirits. This conversation explores how the world’s number one tequila set out to shift long-held perceptions and show the spirit’s true versatility. Aileen shares the realities of leading a global brand across markets with very different drinking cultures, legal frameworks and expectations. Hanisha lifts the lid on Creature’s pitch process, how they built trust early, and why strategic clarity mattered more than a single creative idea. Together they unpick what it takes to produce a culturally sensitive, modern campaign rooted in real insight, genuine collaboration and a deep respect for Cuervo’s Mexican provenance. It’s a lesson in partnership, process and the craft behind brand transformation. https://www.moderncitizens.com/ https://proximospirits.com/
17 Nov 2025
From Comedy to Culture: Leading Without the Bullshit
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam talks with Laura Tannenbaum, CEO of Fabric Social and co-founder of That Lot, the social agency that redefined how brands show up online. Laura shares her journey from journalism to agency life, from local newspapers in Cambridge to building one of the UK’s most culturally tuned-in creative agencies. She reflects on the early days of That Lot, the power of reactivity in social, and the lessons learned from growing an agency from four people to 150 in just a few years. Now leading Fabric, Laura talks about scaling fast but right - protecting culture, championing diversity, and creating an environment where creativity thrives. She opens up about managing ADHD, balancing leadership with parenthood, and redefining what it means to lead with authenticity, empathy, and trust. It’s a conversation about creativity, culture, and the kind of leadership that puts people, not process, at the centre of growth. https://fabricsocial.com/
10 Nov 2025
Building Smarter Sales Systems
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam sits down with Matthew Isales, founder of Isales Solutions, to explore how structure and systems can transform the way small businesses sell. From earning $4 an hour in a Dominican Republic call centre to running a global sales consultancy, Matthew shares his journey into the world of CRMs, automation, and scalable sales processes. They unpack why most CRMs fail, how to fix broken sales pipelines, and the balance between process and personality in modern selling. Expect practical advice on building sustainable systems using tools like Pipedrive, how AI is reshaping sales efficiency, and why true success still depends on the human touch. Whether you’re a founder still selling on instinct or a sales leader ready to scale, this episode will help you turn your sales chaos into consistency. https://www.isalessolutions.com/
3 Nov 2025
Pitch Story: How The Gate won Smarty Mobile
When Smarty Mobile set out to find a new creative partner, they weren’t just looking for great ideas, they were looking for a true collaborator. In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam speaks with Jamie Elliott, CEO of The Gate, and Sayed Hajamaideen, Head of Brand and Marketing Communications at Smarty Mobile, about the pitch that led to the award-winning “Less Malarkey, More Smarty” campaign. They unpack what made the partnership work from day one, from The Gate’s culture-first approach and data-driven storytelling, to Smarty’s belief in transparency, trust, and creative bravery. You’ll hear how the pitch process was designed around collaboration, why listening is the most underrated sales skill, and how both sides built a relationship strong enough to weather tough conversations and bold ideas. A must-listen for agency leaders, marketers, and anyone who’s ever wanted to understand what makes a winning pitch and a lasting partnership. https://london.thegateworldwide.com/ https://smarty.co.uk/
27 Oct 2025
The Psychology of Pitching
Adam Graham sits down with Marcus Elliott Brown, founder of The Great Pitch Company, to explore what really makes a pitch unforgettable. Marcus shares how his background in theatre, sales, and advertising shaped his approach to helping agencies win work, not through tricks or templates, but through authentic human storytelling. They unpack the anatomy of a great pitch, from qualification and preparation to emotional connection and performance. Marcus explains why the best agencies pitch less but win more, how to avoid “resting pitch face”, and the difference between looking hungry and looking desperate. He also offers advice for handling nerves, building confidence, and creating chemistry in both live and virtual pitch settings. The conversation goes beyond tactics, touching on the mental health toll of pitching, the importance of saying no, and why every agency should plan to be not just “great now,” but great forever. If you’ve ever stood in front of a client and tried to sell an idea, this episode is part therapy, part masterclass and proof that pitching, when done well, can be an art form. https://www.thegreatpitchcompany.com/
20 Oct 2025
Building Bridges Between Agencies and Brands
In this episode, Chris Kemp reflects on his 20-year journey in business development and the founding of Ingenuity, the agency–brand connector he launched at just 25. He shares how early challenges shaped the company’s growth and how strategic acquisitions helped diversify and strengthen its offer. Chris explores the evolution of pitching culture, highlighting the enduring role of creativity, personal relationships, and innovative tactics such as events and PR. He stresses the importance of tailoring approaches to each agency and brand, staying adaptable in a shifting marketing landscape, and building resilience through continuous learning. Looking ahead, Chris discusses Ingenuity’s future ambitions, from potential expansion to leveraging AI and new technologies to maintain a competitive edge. This conversation offers both inspiration and practical lessons from one of the sector’s most experienced business development leaders. https://ingenuitylondon.com/
13 Oct 2025
How Procurement Powers Creativity
What does it take to run marketing procurement for one of the world’s biggest brands? In this episode, Rachel Wentzel, former Director of Global Marketing Procurement at Adidas, joins us to unpack how the brand balances creativity, efficiency, and collaboration on a global scale. Rachel shares how Adidas has evolved under CEO Bjørn Gulden’s leadership, why in-house production has grown so rapidly since 2020, and how the brand continues to push for inclusivity and authenticity in every campaign. We dig into how agencies can build stronger relationships with procurement, what really drives partnership decisions, and why the best agencies are the ones that blend cultural insight with operational efficiency. Rachel also offers a rare glimpse into how Adidas approaches innovation, from virtual production and AI to the role of music and emotion in shaping content. If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to get on the radar of a global brand or how procurement can actually be a creative ally, this is worth a listen.
2 Oct 2025
The Human Side of Sales in a Digital-First World
This episode of The Art of Sales features Tom Nation from Sandler, whose career began in hospitality before moving into sales. The conversation highlights how soft skills such as listening, building rapport and reading people remain essential in today’s sales environment. Tom discusses the outdated stereotypes that still damage the image of sales and explains why it should be treated as a professional craft rooted in psychology and trust. He shares how technology, data and AI are reshaping prospecting, but stresses that sales still depends on mindset, coachability and discipline. Prospecting, he argues, doesn’t have to be loved, but it does have to be done. The episode closes with a look at the continued importance of in-person events for building connection and community in a digital-first world. https://go.sandler.com/southwest/
17 Sept 2025
Quality Over Quantity: Strategic New Business Development
In this episode, agency experts Oli Richards and Ellie Ring unpack what it really takes to win new business in today’s oversupplied, competitive market. They explore how creative and media demands have shifted towards short-term, project-based work, and why agencies need to build distinctive brands and stronger client relationships to cut through. The conversation highlights the importance of rigorous qualifying criteria, chemistry meetings, and confident selectivity when deciding which opportunities to pursue. Oli and Ellie also share practical advice on client retention, empowering agency teams, and making CRM systems work harder. They discuss the rise of entrepreneurial culture within agencies and the growing role of personal branding and social selling. Packed with both strategic insights and actionable tips, this episode offers a fresh perspective on how agencies can stand out, stay resilient, and grow in a challenging environment. https://gray-matters.co/ https://www.bartleboglehegarty.com/ https://saatchi.co.uk/
8 Sept 2025
The Two Bobs Story: The Courage to Specialise
In this episode of The Art of Sales, I sit down with David C. Baker, one of the most respected voices in the agency world. David shares his journey from graduate school teacher to running his own consulting practice, including the story of how he accidentally built an agency with no prior experience. We talk about the origins of the Two Bobs podcast with Blair Enns, why it deliberately avoids guest interviews and even how the film Office Space inspired its name. Our conversation explores positioning, the value of specialisation, and the difference between coaches and consultants. We also touch on cultural contrasts between the US and UK when it comes to sales and why confidence matters. David leaves agency leaders with clear, actionable advice: embrace courage, sharpen your marketing, and reframe sales as a vital service to clients. https://gray-matters.co/ https://2bobs.com/
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