Trusts Talk

About Trusts Talk

Trusts Talk with Adam Hofri-Winogradow and Mark Bennett is a podcast featuring deep-dive discussions with trust lawyers and academics on a wide range of fascinating issues in trusts law. Through thoughtful conversations, the podcast explores leading cases, emerging ideas, and enduring debates shaping trust law today. Music: Bundt by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue (http://www.sessions.blue)).

Publisher

Adam Hofri, Mark Bennett

Category

government · society & culture

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

20 Mar 2026

Latest episode

19 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

6 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   19 Oct 2026

   China's Offshore Trusts Taxation Reforms - Harry Yu 余亮恒

   For a long time the offshore trust was sold to China-connected families as a Swiss Army knife: one structure for tax, succession, insurance, investment and family governance. In July 2026 China's Ministry of Finance and State Taxation Administration issued Announcements No. 21 and No. 15, which set out how resident individuals are taxed on offshore trusts. Harry Yu 余亮恒argues that the announcements are about more than tax. They mark a broader change in Chinese private wealth, from creating wealth to building institutions that can hold it across generations. Harry joins us on the podcast to discuss these developments. We discuss where Chinese wealth came from and why it went offshore. We also cover the new "resident contributor" concept, why old trusts now face an evidence problem, what families may do in response to these developments, and why "the job comes before the tool". Harry has worked between mainland China and Hong Kong for more than two decades. He advises China-connected entrepreneurial families on offshore trusts, succession, family governance and cross-border structures. He is a member of the Society of Trust and Estate Practitioners (STEP) and sits on the steering committee of STEP's Cross-Border Estates Global Special Interest Group. He is also an Honorary Institute Fellow at the Asia-Pacific Institute of Business, CUHK Business School. You can find out more about Harry, his work, and his newsletter HK Structuring Insight , at https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/hk-structuring-insights-7336608285988438016/ (https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/hk-structuring-insights-7336608285988438016/) and his LinkedIn profile China Tax Announcements - MOF/STA Announcement No. 21 (2026)https://fgk.chinatax.gov.cn/zcfgk/c102416/c5251277/content.html (https://fgk.chinatax.gov.cn/zcfgk/c102416/c5251277/content.html) the substantive individual income tax framework for offshore trusts - [STA Announcement No. 15 (2026) https://fgk.chinatax.gov.cn/zcfgk/c100012/c5251338/content.html (https://fgk.chinatax.gov.cn/zcfgk/c100012/c5251338/content.html) filing, reporting and administration - STA official interpretation https://fgk.chinatax.gov.cn/zcfgk/c100015/c5251326/content.html (https://fgk.chinatax.gov.cn/zcfgk/c100015/c5251326/content.html) Further reading - Lusina Ho, "Family trusts for Chinese clients" (2014) Trusts & Trustees, https://doi.org/10.1093/tandt/ttt223 (https://doi.org/10.1093/tandt/ttt223) - Zaif Hassan Fazal, "Taxation of Offshore Trusts and the Rule of Law: The Case of Australia and China" (2022) Trusts & Trustees, https://doi.org/10.1093/tandt/ttac089 (https://doi.org/10.1093/tandt/ttac089) - China Briefing, 'China tax authority requests self-inspection of overseas income for the past three years' https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-crs-tax-enforcement-compliance-tips/ (https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-crs-tax-enforcement-compliance-tips/) This episode is general discussion, not legal or tax advice.

2. 

   10 Sept 2026

   Felix Chang - ‘Law and Economics’, Wealth, and Inequality

   In this episode of Trusts Talk, Mark Bennett and Adam Hofri-Winogradow are joined by Felix Chang, the Robert J. Watkins/Procter & Gamble Professor of Law at the Moritz College of Law at Ohio State University, to discuss his chapter, "Economic Analysis of Trust Law," in the Oxford Handbook of Comparative Trust Laws, co-edited by Adam and Mark with Lusina Ho and Richard Nolan. Felix traces an arc from microeconomic to macroeconomic analysis of trusts, from John Langbein's contractarian account and Robert Sitkoff's agency costs theory, through to work treating the trust as an input into the wider economy and a vehicle for entrenching wealth inequality across generations. The conversation ranges across asset protection trusts and settlor-retained powers, the asymmetry between contractual and tort creditors, the long-running contract-versus-property debate, and how American legal education folds trusts into estate planning. Felix also reflects on his path into trusts and estates scholarship, and on open questions at the intersection of trusts, race, and public fiduciary duty. References Felix B. Chang's Selected Relevant Work Felix B. Chang, "Economic Analysis of Trust Law," in The Oxford Handbook of Comparative Trust Laws (Oxford University Press). Felix B. Chang, "Asymmetries in the Generation and Transmission of Wealth" (2018) 79 Ohio State LJ 73. Felix B. Chang, "How Should Inheritance Law Remediate Inequality?" (2022) 97 Washington LR 61. Felix B. Chang and Lusina Ho, "Intestacy and Inequality under China's Revised Succession Law" (2023) 72 American Journal of Comparative Law. Other Scholarship mentioned John H. Langbein, "The Contractarian Basis of the Law of Trusts" (1995) 105 Yale LJ 625. Melanie B. Leslie, "Trusting Trustees: Fiduciary Duties and the Limits of Default Rules" (2005) 94 Georgetown LJ 67. Robert H. Sitkoff, "An Agency Costs Theory of Trust Law" (2004) 89 Cornell LR 621. Henry Hansmann and Ugo Mattei, "The Functions of Trust Law: A Comparative Legal and Economic Analysis" (1998) 73 NYU LR 434. Allison Anna Tait, "Inheriting Privilege" (2022) 106 Minnesota LR 1959. Allison Anna Tait, "The Law of High-Wealth Exceptionalism" (2020) 71 Alabama LR 981. Eric Kades, "Of Piketty and Perpetuities: Dynastic Wealth in the Twenty-First Century (And Beyond)" (2019) 60 Boston College LR 145. David Horton, "Wills Law on the Ground" (2015) 62 UCLA LR 1094. David Horton and Andrea Cann Chandrasekher, "Probate Lending" (2016) 126 Yale LJ 102. Reid Kress Weisbord, "Wills for Everyone: Helping Individuals Opt Out of Intestacy" (2012) 53 Boston College LR 877. Bridget J. Crawford and Anthony C. Infanti, "A Critical Research Agenda for Wills, Trusts, and Estates" (2014) 49 Real Property, Trust and Estate LJ 317. Books John Chipman Gray, Restraints on the Alienation of Property (2 ed, Boston Book Company, 1895). Brooke Harrington, Capital Without Borders: Wealth Managers and the One Percent (Harvard University Press, 2016). Brooke Harrington, Offshore: Stealth, Wealth, and the New Colonialism (W.W. Norton, 2024). Emilie Connolly, Vested Interests: Trusteeship and Native Dispossession in the United States (Princeton University Press).

3. 

   4 Aug 2026

   Account of Profits and Dishonest Assistance - with Weiming Tan

   In this episode of Trusts Talk, Mark Bennett and Adam Hofri are joined by Weiming Tan, an assistant professor at the National University of Singapore and a contributing editor to the 35th edition of Snell's Equity, to discuss his recent Law Quarterly Review article on the account of profits in dishonest assistance. Weiming makes the case for his "equal rigour" principle: rather than asking whether a dishonest assistant counts as a fiduciary, which is the "status-centric" approach he critiques, he argues that equity's commitment to protecting the fiduciary relationship should extend the same remedial regime outward to those who dishonestly interfere with it. Drawing on Ian Jackman's idea of facilitative institutions, and navigating the split between the English Court of Appeal and the High Court of Australia, the conversation ranges across whether an account of profits should be available against dishonest assistants at all, what the causation test ought to be, the danger of treating fiduciary law as a convenient instrument for holding people to account, and the broader craft of doctrinal scholarship. Along the way Weiming reflects on his intellectual influences and his experience working on Snell's Equity. References Weiming Tan's work Weiming Tan, "Account of Profits in Dishonest Assistance, the 'Equal Rigour' Principle, and the Retreat from 'Status'" (2026) 142 LQR 58. SSRN (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5337212) Weiming Tan, "Bribes, Constructive Trusts, and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002" (2024) 140 LQR 356. SSRN (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4766139) Cases Novoship (UK) Ltd v Nikitin / Mikhaylyuk [2014] EWCA Civ 908. link (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2014/908.html) Ancient Order of Foresters in Victoria Friendly Society Ltd v Lifeplan Australia Friendly Society Ltd [2018] HCA 43. link (https://www.hcourt.gov.au/cases-and-judgments/judgments/judgments-1998-current/ancient-order-foresters-victoria-friendly-society-limited-v-lifeplan-australia-friendly-society-limited) Rukhadze v Recovery Partners GP Ltd [2025] UKSC 10. link (https://supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2023-0062) Hopcraft v Close Brothers Ltd; Johnson v FirstRand Bank Ltd; Wrench v FirstRand Bank Ltd [2025] UKSC 33. link (https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2025/33.html) For a full list of references see this link (https://app.notion.com/p/mark-bennett-nz-law/Account-of-Profits-and-Dishonest-Assistance-with-Weiming-Tan-3b2f997b1aca8089b7d1e6c77ca10774)

4. 

   6 Jun 2026

   Understanding Trust Protectors - Professor Katy Barnett (Melbourne Law School)

   In this episode of Trusts Talk, Mark Bennett and Adam Hofri-Winogradow interview Professor Katy Barnett (https://law.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/katy-barnett) of Melbourne Law School about Australian trust law, the role of protectors, appointors and guardians, and the fiduciary limits on trust powers. Professor Barnett’s recent open-access article, “Protectors and guardians: observations from Australia” (https://academic.oup.com/tandt/article/30/7/407/7688503), provides a useful companion to the episode. For those with access, her paper “‘Pistols at dawn’ and the powers of trustees, appointors, and guardians: who comes trumps in a dispute over a family trust?” (https://search.informit.org/doi/10.3316/informit.T2025111800017901814377867) is also available. The conversation begins with Australia’s unusually strong equity and trusts tradition. Barnett traces this tradition back to early colonial legal history, including the 1808 Rum Rebellion (https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/stories/1808-rum-rebellion), and to the Burwood Estate litigation discussed in her and Lynne Barnett’s article, “‘Equity’s Darling’ and the Burwood Ejectment Case: A Turning Point in Colonial Australian Law” (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6139047). Barnett then turns to modern Australian trust practice. She explains how highly discretionary family trusts often use appointors, guardians or protectors to supervise corporate trustees and control succession within family wealth structures. These offices can be useful, but they can also produce intense control disputes. For recent Australian examples, see Staley v Hill Family Holdings Pty Ltd [2025] QCA 95 (https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/qld/QCA/2025/95.html), and Mercanti v Mercanti [2016] WASCA 206 (https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/wa/WASCA/2016/206.html). Barnett warns against assuming that the family patriarch, matriarch or dominant family figure is necessarily the best person to hold a control office. The episode discusses “battle of the deeds” scenarios, disputes over trustee removal powers - with reference to Cihan v Cihan [2022] NSWSC 538 (https://www.smsfadviser.com/smsf-appointors-perhaps-permissible)and the need to specify whether particular powers are fiduciary, personal, constrained, or subject to procedural requirements. The discussion then moves to fiduciary duties. Barnett distinguishes between the strict core of fiduciary law — especially the no-conflict and no-profit rules — and broader uses of fiduciary language that include duties of proper consideration, decision-making process and trustee deliberation. The episode also connects protector powers to the problem of settlor control and illusory trusts. Key cases include New Zealand’s Clayton v Clayton [Vaughan Road Property Trust] [2016] NZSC 29 (https://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZSC/2016/29.html), and the English High Court’s decision in JSC Mezhdunarodniy Promyshlenniy Bank v Pugachev [2017] EWHC 2426 (Ch) (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2017/2426.html). (See also Mark's “The Illusory Trust Doctrine" (https://ojs.victoria.ac.nz/vuwlr/article/view/6568/5730) )

5. 

   15 Apr 2026

   Dr Sara Adami-Johnson on the Psychology and Practicalities of Art Succession Planning

   In this episode of Trust Talk, hosts Mark Bennett and Adam Hofri talk with Dr. Sara Adami-Johnson, Vice President of High Net Worth Planning Services at RBC Wealth Management, to discuss the intricacies of international estate planning, family psychology, and the complexities of managing art as an asset class. Drawing on her background in law, finance, and positive psychology, Dr. Adami-Johnson explains how she acts like a detective to uncover the unspoken rules, emotional dynamics, and unique governance structures that exist within wealthy families. The conversation then takes a deep dive into the highly subjective world of art valuation, exploring how provenance, authenticity, condition, and shifting cultural perspectives impact a collection's worth. Dr. Adami-Johnson highlights the common pitfalls of passing down art without a proper will or tax plan, the strategic use of trusts and foundations for dynastic collections, and the evolving debates around preservation and restoration. Follow Dr. Sara Adami-Johnson on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/smjohnsoncdn/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/smjohnsoncdn/) We discussed Te Motunui Epa, a Māori carving that had an amazing story, which has been told by Dr Rachel Buchanan (Taranaki, Te Ātiawa), in her book Te Motunui Epa (Bridget Williams Books, 2022). See this story for more details: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/labourday/audio/2018817736/the-tale-of-the-motunui-epa (https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/labourday/audio/2018817736/the-tale-of-the-motunui-epa)

6. 

   20 Mar 2026

   Richard Grasby on Offshore Trusts Practice from Hong Kong

   In this episode of Trust Talk, hosts Mark Bennett and Adam Hofri talk trusts with Richard Grasby, an offshore regulatory trusts and private wealth lawyer based in Hong Kong who specializes in the laws of jurisdictions like the Cayman Islands and the British Virgin Islands. Richard explains that high-net-worth clients primarily utilize modern offshore trusts for confidentiality, probate avoidance, succession planning, and protection against political instability or regime changes, rather than simple tax planning. A recurring challenge in the industry is the delicate balance of control; settlors often want to retain strict power over their assets, but treating a trust like a personal ATM makes it highly vulnerable during divorce proceedings and invites strict tax scrutiny. Furthermore, global transparency initiatives like the Common Reporting Standard (CRS) are forcing settlors to reduce their formal powers to avoid being flagged as controlling persons. Despite global pushes for transparency, the offshore trust remains highly relevant; to combat geopolitical uncertainties and cyber threats, clients are increasingly diversifying their structures by separating the trust's governing law from the trustee's physical location, such as pairing a Cayman law trust with an independent trustee based in Singapore or Switzerland. Follow Richard on LinkedIn or through the Appleby website for further insights into this complex and evolving field. https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-grasby/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-grasby/) https://www.applebyglobal.com/people/richard-grasby/ (https://www.applebyglobal.com/people/richard-grasby/)

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