This is a podcast rooted in real life — not church culture. We explore Christianity not as a religious bubble or closed subculture, but as truth about the way the world actually works — truth sturdy enough to stand up to scrutiny. It’s for skeptics, curious minds, artists, the spiritually burned-out, and anyone wondering whether Jesus still makes sense in the modern world. Christians are welcome too — but this isn’t meant to be an insider conversation. The door faces outward.
A man in Shreveport murders eight children, seven of them his own. Underneath the grief is the instinct that someone has to answer for this. That instinct has a name — God's wrath. Justice.
Jeff and Stephen sit with the doctrine honestly. Biblical writers were more often crying "how long, Lord?" than asking God to ease up. They also touch Kirk Cameron's recent comments on annihilationism, the Cappadocian Fathers, and the actual range of views on hell in the early church.
📖 People of the Lie (https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/People-of-the-Lie/M-Scott-Peck/9780684848594) by M. Scott Peck
📖 The Fire That Consumes (https://wipfandstock.com/9781608999309/the-fire-that-consumes/) by Edward Fudge
⛪ GraceLife Beachside Church (https://gracelifebeach.com)
24 Apr 2026
What About Aliens?
Pentagon veterans testified before Congress about non-human biologics. A Navy pilot described a tic-tac-shaped object at Mach 5 with no wings, no exhaust, no explanation.
Jeff and Stephen take the alien question seriously because they think the church hasn't. They work through what extraterrestrial life would actually mean for the image of God, the atonement, and the sufficiency of scripture.
📖 Out of the Silent Planet (https://www.amazon.com/Out-Silent-Planet-Space-Trilogy/dp/0743234901) – C.S. Lewis
🔗 2023 UAP Congressional Hearing — Full Testimony (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY) – C-SPAN
10 Apr 2026
Narcissists & Flying Monkeys
A high-profile sheriff is in the news, the word narcissist is getting thrown around, and Jeff brought a printed copy of the DSM-5 to settle it. Five out of nine traits gets you the diagnosis. The conversation goes about where you'd expect it to from there — and then somewhere you wouldn't.
Jeff and Stephen get into why narcissistic leaders don't just appear in churches but get actively recruited there, what makes someone a "flying monkey" defending a leader they should probably leave, and the wound underneath the whole thing. Stephen tells the story of asking a pastor a real question at 21 and being told it was a stupid one. Jeff confesses to doing the Donald Trump table-clearing thing at his own family dinners.
The hardest part of the episode is the diagnosis they land on: the church doesn't just tolerate this stuff. It selects for it. And the people most hurt by it tend to leave one narcissistic system and walk straight into another.
If any of this sounds familiar, you're not crazy. And you're not the only one.
Resources & Links
📖 When Narcissism Comes to Church (https://www.ivpress.com/when-narcissism-comes-to-church) – Chuck DeGroat
📖 The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse (https://www.christianbook.com/the-subtle-power-of-spiritual-abuse/david-johnson/9780764201370/pd/201379) – David Johnson & Jeff VanVonderen
⛪ GraceLife Beachside Church (https://gracelifebeach.com)
26 Mar 2026
Go Home and Churn Butter?
Two white dudes talking about what it's like to be a women in the church and in today's society. They know. Stephen and Jeff about to step into it, and with the best of intentions — covering the role and dignity of women in the church and in society, where the Bible actually lands on it, and where the church has done real damage by getting it wrong.
They get into the MacArthur/Beth Moore moment, what 1 Timothy 3 actually says about female deacons (it may not be what you think), the egalitarian arguments worth a serious hearing, and what Augustine said about women and sexual violence in 410 AD that was genuinely revolutionary. Also: the end of Judges, which is a lot.
The conversation gets personal too. Stephen has four daughters. Jeff has three sons. This topic affects them both in completely different ways.
Resources & Links
John MacArthur – "Beth Moore, Go Home" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO9JWqJJmdo)
Beth Moore — Living Proof Ministries (https://www.livingproof.org)
John Piper — Desiring God (https://www.desiringgod.org)
N.T. Wright (https://www.ntwrightpage.com)
11 Mar 2026
God Is Not Threatened by CVS
A beloved actor takes his own life after decades of battling bipolar disorder — and it raises a question the church has fumbled for too long: how should Christians think about mental health, medication, and the limits of "just pray more"?
Jeff and Stephen get honest about depression, the stigma around meds, why refusing help can actually be sinful pride, and what William Cooper's taxi ride to London Bridge teaches us about common grace.
If you're struggling, you're not alone — and God isn't mad at you for needing help.
Resources & Links
📖 Spiritual Depression: Its Causes and Cure (https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Depression-Its-Causes-Cure/dp/0802813879) – Martyn Lloyd-Jones
📖 How to Be Miserable: 40 Strategies You Already Use (https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Miserable-Strategies-Already/dp/1626254060) – Randy J. Paterson
⛪ The Harbor Counseling Ministry (https://gracelifebeach.com/harbor) – GraceLife Beachside Church
25 Feb 2026
Does God Own a Playstation?
Join Pastors Jeff and Stephen in episode 1 of the Truth in the Trenches Podcast as they unpack how Christians can approach video games and leisure without guilt. Are games a waste or a gift? Can play be holy?
With humor and depth, they discuss joy, rest, addiction, and finding a balanced Christian life—whether you’re chilling with Castlevania and Shredder's Revenge or taking a break from the grind. Hit play for thoughtful, down-to-earth faith talk.
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