Under the Steeple is a church operations podcast about the people, decisions, systems, and surprises that keep ministry moving. Each episode tackles leadership, finance, staffing, facilities, technology, governance, and the other duties nobody mentioned in seminary. It is an honest and occasionally humorous look at what happens behind the scenes, between Sundays, and whenever ministry meets reality.
Know Your Neighbor: Why Demographics Matter for Churches
When the community around your church starts to shift, how do you adapt? Do you double down on the people already in your pews or change your approach to reach your new neighbors?
In this episode of Under the Steeple, Marie Burrus and Matthew Dillingham welcome “The Numbers Guy” (and UBA Executive Director) Dr. Josh Ellis to discuss the practical role of demographics in church strategy.
They unpack why standard online data is often years behind reality, how to realistically interpret neighborhood numbers, and the best methods to discover exactly what your community needs right now.
In This Episode:
The Limits of Data: Why website demographics and census data are usually behind a rapidly changing neighborhood and why psychographics (like "unchurched" people statistics) are notoriously unreliable.
The Power of Local Schools: Why building genuine relationships with local schools is the fastest, most accurate way to understand your neighborhood's needs.
Navigating Neighborhood Turnover: Practical advice for older or established congregations facing gentrification or major cultural shifts.
The "Sphere of Influence" Strategy: What to do when your congregation no longer lives in the neighborhood where your church building is located.
Space Sharing as a Strategy: How sharing your facility with another congregation can be a powerful gospel tool.
Resources:
Kinder Institute for Urban Research: Regional data and reports for Greater Houston. https://kinder.rice.edu
Houston-Galveston Area Council (H-GAC): Demographic data, maps, and forecasting for the region. https://www.h-gac.com
Loving Schools (formerly Loving Houston): Helping churches build transformative partnerships with local schools. https://lovingschools.net
1 Oct 2026
Political Limbo: What Churches Can and Can't Say During Election Season
Election season is here, and church leaders face a difficult balancing act: How do you shepherd your congregation through complex cultural issues without losing your 501(c)(3) status—or fracturing your church? Further complicating matters, the Johnson Amendment may or may not be currently enforceable.
Matthew Dillingham and Marie Burrus break down the legal and practical limits of church political involvement. From the history of the Johnson Amendment to recent Treasury Department statements and IRS guidance, this episode unpacks what you can say from the pulpit, how to handle political candidates in your facility, and why wisdom should have the final say in your church's approach.
In This Episode:
The Johnson Amendment Explained: The 1954 history behind the tax code rule prohibiting 501(c)(3) organizations from endorsing or opposing political candidates.
Legal Limbo & Recent Court Rulings: Where the law actually stands in 2026 following recent federal court challenges and informal Treasury Department guidance.
Pulpits vs Personal Convictions: How pastors can navigate personal political engagement on their own dime without misusing church assets, titles, or platforms.
Facilities & Candidate Forums: How to host neutral voter education events, candidate forums, or town halls without violating IRS rules or showing favoritism.
The Wisdom Principle: Why protecting gospel unity in a divided culture matters just as much as obeying tax law.
What Your Church CAN vs. CANNOT Do as a Nonprofit (between Johnson Amendment decisions)
CAN:
Preach on biblical, moral, and theological issues that have public policy implications.
Host non-partisan voter registration drives and get-out-the-vote efforts.
Hold neutral candidate forums where all qualified candidates are invited on equal terms.
Invite a candidate to speak as a subject-matter expert (provided no campaign activity or endorsement occurs).
Engage in non-partisan political activity as an individual on your own time and dime.
CANNOT:
Endorse or oppose specific candidates or political parties from the pulpit or in official church communications.
Use church funds, websites, social media channels, or staff time to promote candidates or campaign events.
Put campaign signs, fundraising tables, or single-candidate promotional materials on church property.
Provide voter guides that highlight or bias preferred candidates over others.
Resources:
IRS Revenue Ruling 2007-41: Tax-Exempt Organizations and Political Campaign Intervention https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-07-41.pdf
Pew Research Center: Public Views on Politics and Houses of Worship (April 2026)
What Churches Can and Can't Say During Election Season, UBA Blog
Just for Fun:
Parks and Recreation "Straight to Jail" Scene: Watch on YouTube
14 Sept 2026
Share Space Without the Headache: Best Practices for Facility Agreements
Sharing church space with schools, nonprofits, or other ministries is a powerful strategy, especially for churches in major cities where space is at a premium. But unwritten rules and damaged property can easily create chaos.
Matthew Dillingham and Marie Burrus break down why clear boundaries protect your ministry. Learn the essential legal clauses, financial risks, and management strategies required to share your facility safely and generously.
2 Sept 2026
Don't Go to Jail: Avoiding Fraud and Money Mismanagement
When church numbers don't add up, is it a simple mistake, administrative mismanagement, or actual fraud?
Matthew Dillingham and Marie Burrus dive into the murky waters of church finances, unpacking why "asking for forgiveness instead of permission" doesn't work with the IRS—or your congregation.
From rogue credit cards and missing coffee receipts to the legal boundaries of designated funds, this episode breaks down the essential internal controls every ministry needs to stay transparent, ethical, and out of trouble.
In This Episode:
Audits and Financial Reviews: Why churches need a professional audit every three years, an annual financial review in between, and how to build those costs directly into the budget.
Fractional Bookkeeping: How churches can afford professional financial accounting instead of relying on unqualified volunteers and why it matters.
Designated vs. Restricted Funds: The legal line between operational spending and designated giving—and why changing a donor's intent requires a clear paper trail.
The Itemized Receipt Mandate: What the IRS actually requires for meal and travel expense reporting, plus practical ways to enforce receipt policies with staff.
The Transparency Dividend: How financial clarity directly correlates with increased congregational trust and donor giving.
14 Aug 2026
When Everything is Important, Nothing is Sustainable
Marie Burrus and Matthew Dillingham launch the inaugural episode of “Under the Steeple,” introducing the podcast’s goal of making church leadership and operations simple for busy ministers.
They discuss how pastors and church leaders can feel overwhelmed when everything seems important. They emphasize prioritization (important vs. urgent), accepting that some “rubber balls” can be dropped, and delegating without feeling like a failure.
Matthew stresses that offering clarity (by defining work/volunteer roles, job descriptions, policies, and lines of authority) is a kind of pastoral care.
They warn against a pastor “hero” mindset that leads to burnout and recommend Kelly Kapic’s devotional, “You Were Never Meant to Do It All,” to learn more on this topic.
Resources:
“When Everything is Important, Nothing Feels Sustainable” www.virtualexecutivepastor.com/post/when-everything-is-important-nothing-feels-sustainable
The Eisenhower Matrix: https://www.eisenhower.me/eisenhower-matrix/
”You Were Never Meant To Do it All,” by Kelly Kapic
Bonus Extras
1099 Versus W2? https://www.virtualexecutivepastor.com/post/1099-or-w-2-what-churches-need-to-know-especially-for-musicians
King Ranch Casserole Recipe: https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/king-ranch-chicken-casserole
Pear Salad Recipe: https://southernbite.com/southern-pear-salad/
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