What The Fear?!

About What The Fear?!

What The Fear?! is a podcast about the fears that drive us, the ones that derail us - and the ones that dare us to do things differently. Hosted by award-winning author, speaker and productivity expert Grace Marshall, the show explores how High Functioning Fear® hides in plain sight - showing up as busyness, overthinking, people-pleasing, perfectionism, or relentless productivity. It examines how fear shapes the way we work, lead, relate and make decisions - often without ever looking like fear. Each episode features deep, honest conversations with thinkers, researchers and practitioners about what fear looks like in real life - and how we can move through it with more courage, clarity and connection. Together, we explore the surprising ways fear shows up in leadership, conflict, communication, trust, innovation, uncertainty, silence, team dynamics and organisational change - and how to meet it with compassion, creativity and strength. Whether you're leading a team, navigating uncertainty, or figuring out how to be more human at work - this show invites you to rethink your relationship with fear.

Publisher

Grace Marshall

Category

business · education

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

7 Sept 2025

Latest episode

6 Sept 2026

Latest episodes

1 of 19 episodes have a transcript.

1. 

   6 Sept 2026

   Fear and overwhelm: it’s not your workload, it’s your thoughtload - with Liane Davey

   When change is high, workload feels high. But what if it's not your workload - it's your thoughtload? In this episode I'm joined by Liane Davey to explore the real culprit behind the overwhelm, chaos and burnout experienced by so many teams. For the past 25 years, Liane has researched and advised teams on how to achieve high performance. Known as the “Teamwork Doctor,” she helps teams replace workplace drama with accountability, empathy, and impact. Together we explore how fear hijacks our attention, our emotions and our energy - and why the very thing our brains have evolved to do best, is what’s making work so hard. We discuss: What vigilance costs you, even when it sounds like a virtue Why your brain treats a raised eyebrow like a threat How fear shows up in feedback conversations What a fire-breathing dragon can teach you in conflict How to develop emotional literacy as a leadership skill If your team's capacity feels maxed out, this conversation will give you practical ways to ease the load. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Known internationally as the "Teamwork Doctor," Liane Davey is a keynote speaker and New York Times bestselling author who helps teams replace workplace drama with accountability, empathy, and impact. Her high energy, research-backed keynotes tackle the burnout, overload, constant change, and conflict weighing people down at work - delivering candid humor and practical tools leaders can use immediately. Liane's book, Thoughtload: Manage the Madness and Free Your Team to Do Great Work, addresses the mental overload crushing today's teams. A frequent Harvard Business Review contributor, she has worked with hundreds of teams worldwide across 26 Fortune 500 companies and counting. Find out more at thoughtload.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lianedavey/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

2. 

   6 Sept 2026

   Operating in uncertainty: fear and organisational design with Mack Fogelson

   How do you design an organisation with less fear? In this episode I’m joined by Mack Fogelson, an organisational designer who helps leaders and companies build braver cultures in complex systems. Organisations are rarely designed with fear in mind, but for Mack, it shows up in every layer of how work actually gets done. Mack pioneers practical, human-centered approaches to change, helping organizations move from burnout and reactivity toward clarity, shared power, experimentation, and resilient ways of working. Her work weaves together systems thinking, organizational design, and Brené Brown’s research on courage, belonging, and vulnerability. Together we look at how fear shows up in an organisation - from strategy and process, to culture and leadership behaviours - and what it takes to build organisations that work with uncertainty, rather than against it. We explore: The difference between our "ways of being" and "ways of doing" at work Why so much of what looks like leadership failure is actually a systems failure in disguise What's really driving the urge in leaders to overplan, overcommit and stay relentlessly busy Why a leader's emotional Wi-Fi might travel further than any strategy document What happens when you start treating uncertainty as a teacher, rather than a problem to solve If your organisation feels stuck in the same patterns no matter how many plans or processes you put in place - this conversation is for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Mack Fogelson is an organizational designer, executive advisor, and cultural transformation strategist who helps leaders and companies build braver cultures in complex systems. She partners with entrepreneurs, executives, and teams around the world - from high-growth companies to organizations like Apple - to redesign how work actually gets done and create systems that support both performance and humanity. Mack is a Certified Dare to Lead™ Facilitator in Brené Brown’s community. Featured in The Economist. Mack writes about uncertainty, power, and how we work together in a fractured world Find out more at mackfogelson.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mackenziefogelson/Substack: https://mackfogelson.substack.com/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

3. 

   6 Sept 2026TRANSCRIPT

   Fear under pressure: from CIA to CEO - with Rupal Patel

   How does fear show up in high pressure situations - from war zones to board rooms? In this episode I’m joined by former CIA analyst Rupal Patel to explore how someone who has faced genuine danger, experiences fear in everyday work life. Rupal Patel’s high-octane career has taken her from military briefing rooms in jungles and war zones to corporate boardrooms and international stages. As a sought-after international speaker, corporate consultant and board advisor she delivers leadership and executive development programmes for Fortune 500 companies, and serves as visiting faculty at business schools across the US and Europe. Together we discuss how fear, ego and adrenaline play out when the stakes are high, what actually holds a team together under pressure, and the surprising truth about which world - the CIA or civilian leadership - triggers more fear. We explore: The CIA tool for reading a room - and how to use it every day What actually makes a team feel safe enough to take real risks Why some people create their own crises when things go quiet What "confident humility" looks like under pressure How to be the grown up in the room If you've ever had to walk into a high-pressure room and hold your own - this one's for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Rupal Patel spent her career at the CIA advising Four-Star Generals, earning War Zone Service commendations, and being recognised by the CIA Director for "superior support to the President of the United States." After leaving the CIA, she earned her MBA and started her first business over a decade ago. She is now an international speaker, corporate consultant and board advisor, delivering leadership and executive development programmes for Fortune 500 companies, and serves as visiting faculty at business schools across the US and Europe. She has been featured in USA Today, Business Insider and CNBC, and her work includes pro bono support for Virgin Startup and Techstars, roles as Entrepreneur in Residence at London Business School and Alumni in Residence at the University of Chicago, and serving as a delegate to the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women. She is the author of the international bestseller From CIA to CEO: Unconventional Life Lessons for Thinking Bigger, Leading Better, and Being Bolder. Find out more at: www.rupalypatel.com Substack: https://rupalypatel.substack.com/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

4. 

   6 Sept 2026

   Fear and high stakes conversations: lessons from a hostage negotiator - Nigel Taberner

   How does fear show up in high-stakes conversations? In this episode I'm joined by former hostage negotiator Nigel Taberner to explore how to diffuse tension, build trust and communicate under pressure when the stakes are high. Nigel spent 10 years as a hostage negotiator with Greater Manchester Police, successfully resolving over 130 incidents. He now brings the same skills he honed in that world - and his unique perspective on communication, resilience and emotional intelligence - into boardrooms and conference stages, helping business leaders navigate the conversations that matter most. Together we explore how to manage fear when lives are at stake, what it takes to build trust from nothing and what a hostage negotiator's world can teach the rest of us about difficult conversations. We look at: Why giving your mind a job to do is one of the most effective ways to manage nerves What it means to know your own capacity before stepping into someone else's crisis Why listening might be the single most underrated skill in any high-stakes conversation Why the real issue is rarely the thing someone's actually arguing about What to do when someone rolls a grenade into the conversation If you’ve got a conversation ahead of you that you know you want to get right, this episode will help you walk into it with more clarity and confidence. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Nigel Taberner has over 30 years of operational experience with Greater Manchester Police and Counter-Terrorism Policing North West, serving in a wide variety of front-line and investigative roles. At the height of his career, he was a Detective Inspector responsible for counter-terrorism policing operations. During his 10 years as a hostage negotiator, Nigel deployed to over 130 incidents, successfully resolving armed sieges, domestic and international kidnaps, and high-risk suicide interventions. He has delivered negotiation training to UK police officers, Special Forces personnel, and international colleagues from the FBI, Finland and Australian police forces. He now brings these transferable skills into business, helping leaders and teams communicate under pressure, build trust and negotiate effectively. Find out more at www.nigeltaberner.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nigel-taberner/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

5. 

   6 Sept 2026

   When fear divides us: polarisation at work with Alison Goldsworthy

   What brings people together? What drives them apart? And what's fear got to do with it? In this episode I'm joined by Alison (Ali) Goldsworthy to explore polarisation at work, and why it's rarely as simple as differing opinions. Co-author of the bestselling book Poles Apart, Ali has spent over 25 years working in politics and movement building. The recent focus of her work is to reduce political polarisation when it reaches excessive levels, supporting businesses, nonprofits and universities. Together we unpack how fear breeds polarisation and vice versa - how it affects our thinking, judgement and decision making, and the implications on team work, organisations and society. We discuss: How the very tools we use to bring people together can turn belonging into division How uncertainty, unemployment and inflation can make polarisation more likely How fear distorts how we our brains process information What happens when fear of saying the wrong thing keeps us silent Why being the most open-minded person in the room might be harder than it sounds If you've ever found yourself dismissing someone before you've really heard them - or wondered what it takes to build a diverse team, rather than a divided one - this conversation will help. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Alison (Ali) Goldsworthy is the co-author of the bestselling book Poles Apart, founder of The Depolarization Project and host of the podcast Changed My Mind. Her work focuses on reducing political polarisation when it reaches excessive levels, supporting businesses, nonprofits and universities. She previously led the team behind the UK's fastest-growing consumer movement at Which?, successfully introducing opt-out organ donation in Wales, and has worked in both Parliament and the Senedd. Poles Apart is now a course she lectures with The Intellectual Forum, Jesus College, Cambridge and she lectures at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business, overseeing work on their Leadership for Society program. Find out more: https://www.opendemocracy.net/author/the-depolarization-project/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aligoldsworthy/ Ali’s book, Poles Apart: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/8547/9781847942975 The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

6. 

   6 Sept 2026

   How fear impacts health: your body’s warning signs and wisdom - with Jake Mahal

   How does fear show up in our bodies? In this episode I'm joined by Jake Mahal to explore the way the human body has evolved to respond to fear and what happens when we find ourselves in survival mode for too long. Jake Mahal is a metabolic health specialist and health coach who helps busy, capable people understand why they feel tired, foggy or unlike themselves and how to rebuild the energy, clarity and resilience they need to live fully again. Together we explore how modern life itself can put our bodies into fear mode - through what we eat, how we move, our sleep, our light exposure, our environment and our relationships - and what it actually takes to build energy, clarity and resilience once we understand what our bodies are responding to. We unpack: What our ancestors' relationship with fear can teach us about our own Why a spin class might be doing the opposite of what your body actually needs What keeps us on the dopamine roller coaster - and the other three happy hormones most of us are missing out on The difference between being stuck in fear and the occasional freak out that actually builds resilience How to curate our environments, at home and at work, to support real human health and high performance If you've ever normalised a low-level hum of tiredness or tension - this conversation will give you a whole new way of looking at it. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Jake Mahal is a metabolic health specialist, ancestral health coach and founder of Whole Life Health. He is a Primal Health Coach at Master Coach level and a MovNat certified trainer, registered with UKIHCA, with a background in sports science and over 20 years of coaching experience. Many of the people Jake works with are doing their best to eat well, stay active and keep everything moving, yet still find themselves running on caffeine, pushing through energy crashes or wondering whether feeling this way is simply part of getting older. Jake helps them see that these symptoms are not personal failings. They are often signs that the body is struggling with the demands and rhythms of modern life. Find out more at https://wholelifehealth.uk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/health-coach-jake-mahal/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachjakemahal/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

7. 

   1 Mar 2026

   Fear and Chronic Overperformance – with Pippa Grange

   What if the way you’ve learned to succeed is the very thing that’s exhausting you? In this episode I’m joined by Dr Pippa Grange - performance psychologist and coach with more than 25 years’ experience working with elite performers across sport and industry. Formerly Head of People and Team Development at The Football Association, she worked closely with Gareth Southgate and the England men’s football team during their journey to the 2018 World Cup semi-finals. Today, her work draws on performance psychology and ecological thinking to help individuals and teams sustain excellence without burning out. Together we explore how overperformance becomes a way of being - and why it so often leaves us depleted rather than fulfilled. Pippa invites us to rethink what it really means to perform well, offering a radically healthier vision of success - one that is regenerative rather than extractive, and feels as good as it looks. We discuss: The difference between “winning deep” and “winning shallow” How fear becomes our behavioural GPS Why success can be fleeting when we’re running on the wrong fuel Why overperformance isn’t random - but shaped by the rules of the game What it means to perform in a way that feels whole, not hollow If you want to perform well - without losing yourself in the process - this conversation is for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Dr Pippa Grange is a performance psychologist and coach with more than 25 years in the field, working with some of the world’s top performers across sport and industry. Formerly Head of People and Team Development at The Football Association, she worked closely with Gareth Southgate’s England men’s football team and is widely credited for her pivotal role in their success reaching the 2018 World Cup semi-finals. Her transformative work was portrayed in the smash-hit national play ‘Dear England’, which is currently being adapted into a four-part TV drama for BBC One. Her practice today draws on ecopsychology and performance principles to help individuals and groups sustain and thrive in all their performance adventures. Find out more at www.pippagrange.com Pippa’s book Life. Reclaimed: https://dk.com/products/9780241761908-life-reclaimed The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

8. 

   1 Mar 2026

   Fear, Mattering and Meaningful work - with Zach Mercurio

   What makes people feel like they matter - and what happens when they don’t? In this episode I’m joined by Zach Mercurio - researcher, author of The Power of Mattering, and one of the leading voices on meaningful work - to explore the primal human need to matter, and the fears that surface when that need goes unmet. For more than twenty years, organisations have tried to foster employee engagement with programmes, platforms and perks. But through his research, Zach discovered that the “disengagement problem” is really a mattering problem. When people don’t feel seen, valued or significant to others, something shifts. 3 in 10 people say they feel invisible at work, 65% feel perpetually underappreciated, and 8 in 10 experience loneliness in any given week. These aren’t just wellbeing statistics - they’re signals. And beneath them, we often find fear. Together, we explore the subtle and often unintentional ways workplaces create anti-mattering - and what happens as a result. We discuss: How tensions, disengagement and disruptive behaviour often have their roots in fear Why engagement, wellbeing and performance are deeply connected to whether we feel significant to others How meaning at work is created less by the job itself and more through everyday interactions Why resilience and confidence are built at a community level, not just an individual one And how mattering isn’t just a feeling - it’s a skill we can practise, model and teach If you’ve ever felt unseen at work - or wondered how to build a workplace culture where people can truly thrive - this conversation will help you understand what’s really at stake. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Zach Mercurio is an author, researcher, and leadership development facilitator specializing in purposeful leadership, mattering, and meaningful work. He advises leaders in organizations worldwide on practices for building cultures that promote well-being, motivation, and performance. Zach holds a Ph.D. in organizational learning, performance, and change and serves as one of Simon Sinek’s Optimist Instructors, teaching a top-rated course on creating mattering at work. His new book is The Power of Mattering: How Leaders Can Create a Culture of Significance. His previous book is The Invisible Leader: Transform Your Life, Work, and Organization with The Power of Authentic Purpose. He’s been featured in The Harvard Business Review, Forbes, Psychology Today, The Denver Post, and on ABCNews. Find out more at www.zachmercurio.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zachmercurio/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

9. 

   1 Mar 2026

   Fear, Certainty and Curiosity - with Jeff Wetzler

   Is curiosity just a personality trait - or a skill we can practise and develop? In this episode I’m joined by Dr. Jeff Wetzler to explore what shapes our capacity for curiosity - and how fear can interfere with it, especially when we need it most. Jeff is a leadership and learning expert and the author of Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You. His work helps leaders and teams surface hidden insights, make smarter decisions, strengthen collaboration and unlock breakthrough ideas. Together we unpack how fear can narrow our perspective and draw us toward certainty when questions might serve us better. We explore how curiosity - when developed intentionally - can strengthen the quality of our decisions, relationships and leadership. We discuss: Why fear pushes us toward certainty rather than curiosity How unspoken thoughts and assumptions shape decisions and relationships What makes people more willing to speak openly How small shifts in how we ask and listen can reveal new understanding Why curiosity may be one of the most practical forms of care If you value curiosity - but notice it’s hardest to access under pressure - this conversation offers a thoughtful and practical way forward. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Dr. Jeff Wetzler is co-Founder and co-CEO of Transcend, an education innovation organization, and served as Chief Learning Officer at Teach For America. He has advised business, NGO, and government leaders around the world and has spoken at major companies such as Microsoft, Google, Deloitte, and DaVita, as well as startups and leading nonprofits. His book, Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You for Unexpected Breakthroughs In Leadership and Life, was named an Amazon Editor’s Pick for Best Books of 2024, a Next Big Idea Club Top Leadership Book of 2024, and widely endorsed by experts such as Adam Grant, Seth Godin, and Amy Edmondson. His work is regularly featured in leading publications including Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Forbes, Entrepreneur, and Psychology Today. Wetzler earned a Doctorate in Adult Learning and Leadership from Columbia University and a Bachelor’s in Psychology from Brown University. He is a member of the Aspen Global Leadership Network and is an Edmund Hillary Fellow. Find out more at www.askapproach.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-wetzler-9ba3824/ Jeff’s Arc of Curiosity: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jeff-wetzler-9ba3824_arcofcuriosity-leadership-curiosity-activity-7366821703361957888-jRlR/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

10. 

    1 Mar 2026

    Fear, Silence and Speak-Up Culture - with Stephen Shedletzky

    What does it really take to create a culture where people speak up - consistently and constructively? In this episode I’m joined by Stephen “Shed” Shedletzky to explore what makes it both safe and worth it for people to use their voice. Shed is a leadership speaker, coach and author of Speak-Up Culture: When Leaders Truly Listen, People Step Up. As a thought leader on psychological safety in the workplace he helps leaders create environments where people feel able - and motivated - to contribute. Together we explore how fear shows up not only in the hesitation to speak, but in the resistance to hear, the ingredients that make a culture healthy or toxic, and why leadership is ultimately about care. We discuss: Why safety alone isn’t enough if it doesn’t feel worth it The difference between healthy fear and corrosive fear What happens when silence becomes self-protection The anatomy of a hard conversation How culture shapes behaviour more than character If you’ve ever held back from speaking up - or wondered why others aren’t telling you what you need to hear - this conversation offers a thoughtful and practical place to start. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Stephen Shedletzky - or “Shed” to his friends - helps leaders make it safe and worth it for people to speak up. He supports humble leaders - those who know they are both part of the problems they experience and the solutions they can create - as they put people and purpose first. A thought leader on psychological safety in the workplace, Shed is the author of Speak-Up Culture: When Leaders Truly Listen, People Step Up. He is a sought-after speaker, coach and advisor who has led hundreds of keynotes and leadership programs around the world. For more than a decade, Shed worked at Simon Sinek, Inc., serving as Chief of Staff and Head of Brand Experience, Training & Development, where he led a global team of speakers and facilitators. He is a graduate of the Richard Ivey School of Business and received his coaching certification from The Co-Active Training Institute. Find out more at shedinspires.com Shed’s book Speak-Up Culture: shedinspires.com/bookShed’s leadership podcast: shedinspires.com/podcast The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

11. 

    1 Mar 2026

    Fear, Competition and Collaboration - with Ruchika T. Malhotra

    How competitive are we really - and what’s fear got to do with it? In this episode I’m joined by Ruchika T. Malhotra - global inclusion strategist and author of Uncompete - to question one of the most dominant assumptions in modern work and life: that success requires competition. We’re often told that competition drives performance, innovation and excellence. But what if it’s also driven by fear - fear of scarcity, fear of falling behind, fear that if someone else wins, we lose? In this conversation, we unpack the fear that underlies the logic of “survival of the fittest” and explore what becomes possible when we choose collaboration over rivalry. Together we explore: The hidden cost of competition - in childhood, in our careers, and in our communities The myth of “survival of the fittest” and how it shapes workplace behaviour How a scarcity mindset shapes decision-making, status, and success What becomes possible when we choose to practice collaboration and abundance How shifting from individual success to collective power changes the game entirely If you’ve ever felt the pressure to prove, outperform or outshine - this conversation invites a different way forward. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Ruchika T. Malhotra is the author of Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success. She is also the founder of Candour, a global inclusion strategy firm. A former business journalist, her writing appears regularly in publications such as Harvard Business Review, The New York Times, Forbes, Bloomberg, The Seattle Times, and more. Named LinkedIn Top Voice for Gender Equality and selected to Thinkers50 Radar, she is a keynote speaker on leadership, workplace culture and the Uncompete™ framework. She has previously held adjunct faculty positions at Seattle University and the University of Washington, where she now advises the Communication Leadership graduate program. Her last book, Inclusion on Purpose, was The MIT Press' top selling book of 2022 and called "transformative" by Dr. Brené Brown. Find out more at www.ruchika.co LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruchikatm/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rtulshyan/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

12. 

    1 Mar 2026

    Fear as Data in Leadership - with Susan Asiyanbi

    What if fear isn’t weakness - but data? In this episode I’m joined by Susan Asiyanbi to explore what fear looks like in leadership - and what becomes possible when we stop pushing it down. Susan is a strategist, pattern recogniser, and the person senior leaders call when facing their biggest leadership challenges. As CEO and founder of The Olori Network®, she and her team study what the strongest executives do differently - capturing the principles, practices and pitfalls of leadership - and bring those insights to bear in real time with CEOs and their teams. Together we unpack how fear can hide in plain sight - in busyness, control, people-pleasing, or the pressure to prove you’re enough - and how those patterns ripple through teams when they go unnamed. Susan shares what shifts when leaders begin to treat fear as information, rather than weakness. We discuss: How fear disguises itself as productivity and performance Why high achievers stay stuck longer than they should What it takes to make the undiscussable discussable How leaders can create space for honest, real-time dialogue Why seeing fear as data can change how we make decisions If you’re feeling stuck as a leader - this conversation will help you understand the patterns shaping your leadership and your team and offer a more freeing way to lead. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Susan Asiyanbi is an executive advisor and operator with more than two decades of cross-sector leadership. She helps CEOs and senior teams navigate complexity, accelerate alignment, and strengthen the systems and relationships that drive performance. Before founding The Olori Network®, Susan served as Chief Operating Officer at Teach For America, where she led operations across 51 regions and stewarded more than 2,000 staff — building high-performance teams capable of driving results while maintaining a strong culture, even amid significant change. Earlier in her career, she held strategic and operational roles at Boston Consulting Group and Sears Holdings Corporation. Through The Olori Network®, Susan brings together everything she has learned: that strategy and culture must move together, and that leadership is ultimately about relationships, trust, and clarity in action. Find out more at www.olorinetwork.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-asiyanbi/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

13. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Fear, Organisational Silence and Leadership in Uncertain Times - with Margaret Heffernan

    How does fear quietly shape our workplace culture – and our careers? In this episode I chat with Dr. Margaret Heffernan about the cost of silence, the roots of organisational fear, and what it really takes to lead – and learn – in times of complexity, uncertainty and change. Most of us think of fear as something loud – panic, paralysis, confrontation. But Margaret invites us to notice the subtler ways it shows up: in hesitation, conformity, and doing what’s expected instead of what’s needed. Drawing on her experience as a five-time CEO and mentor of global leaders – and as someone who consistently questions business orthodoxy from angles that never fail to surprise – she shares insights into how fear shapes not only our organisations, but the way we’re taught to think, lead, and succeed. We explore: Why employees stay silent – and what that costs organisations How fear stifles creativity, innovation, and initiative The hidden cost of over-efficiency and performance culture How uncertainty and fear affect decision-making – and our ability to adapt What leaders can do to cultivate courage, curiosity, and insight If you’ve ever wondered why meaningful change is so hard to lead – and what gets in the way of speaking up, stepping up, or thinking differently – this one’s for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Dr. Margaret Heffernan is an award-winning author, broadcaster, and former CEO of five companies. She produced BBC programmes for 13 years before moving to the US, where she led multimedia projects for companies including Intuit and Standard & Poor’s. She was named one of the Top 100 Media Executives by The Hollywood Reporter. She’s the author of seven books, including Wilful Blindness (a Financial Times Book of the Decade), Uncharted (a Bloomberg Best Book of 2021), and Embracing Uncertainty: How writers, musicians & artists thrive in an unpredictable world. Her TED talks have over 15 million views, and she was inducted into the Thinkers50 Hall of Fame for her lasting contribution to management thinking. Margaret is Professor of Practice at the University of Bath, mentors senior leaders through Merryck & Co., chairs the board of DACS, and contributes to BBC Radio 4 and the Financial Times. Find out more at www.mheffernan.com The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

14. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Spaciousness, Fear, and Leadership Presence – with Megan Reitz

    Is there space to think, breathe, or connect in your workday? In this episode, I talk with leadership thinker and mindfulness researcher Megan Reitz about the tension between doing and being – and how fear, power and pressure keep us stuck in overdrive. Megan is an Associate Fellow at Oxford’s Saïd Business School and co-author of Speak Up and Speak Out, Listen Up. Her latest research explores spaciousness - a different kind of attention that opens up creativity, connection and compassion. Together we examine how workplace culture often rewards busyness over awareness - and what we lose when we constantly prioritise speed, certainty and performance. We explore: How anxiety shapes attention - and limits creativity The impact of power, status and unspoken dynamics in leadership Why language matters - and what gets lost when we only speak in targets and metrics How spaciousness can release compassion, curiosity and insight Practical ways to bring more space into work, leadership and life This is a thoughtful, expansive conversation that doesn’t just talk about making space - it invites you to feel it. Grounded in both research and lived experience, it helps us examine our defaults, rethink productivity, and reconnect with what matters. If you’ve ever said, “I’d love to slow down… but I just don’t have time,” this one’s for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Megan is Associate Fellow at Saïd Business School, Oxford University and Adjunct Professor of Leadership and Dialogue at Hult International Business School. She focuses on how we create the conditions for transformative dialogue at work and her research is at the intersection of leadership, change, dialogue and mindfulness. She is on the Thinkers50 ranking of global business thinkers and HR Magazine’s list of Most Influential Thinkers. Her books include Speak Up and the updated Speak Out, Listen Up, shortlisted for the CMI Management Book of the Year. Her TED talk on employee activism has been viewed over 1.5 million times, and her research has been featured by the BBC, CNBC, Harvard Business Review and MIT Sloan. She is mother to two wonderful teenage daughters who test her regularly on her powers of mindfulness and dialogue. Find out more at https://www.meganreitz.com/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

15. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Fear, Conflict and Communication – with Amy Gallo

    How does fear show up in conflict at work - and what can we do about it? In this episode I’m joined by author and workplace dynamics expert Amy Gallo to explore how fear fuels everything from avoidance to artificial harmony - and how we can work through it with curiosity, courage and emotional intelligence. Amy is known for her work on communication, difficult conversations and healthy workplace relationships. She shares insights from her bestselling book Getting Along and her years of experience helping teams navigate interpersonal tensions and toxic behaviours. Together we unpack how fear manifests in conflict - not just as anger, but also as silence, people-pleasing or endless busyness. And how tools like emotional regulation, intellectual humility and clear communication can help us build real psychological safety, not just the illusion of harmony. We explore: Why conflict often hides behind politeness, performance, and passivity How fear fuels passive-aggression, avoidance, and overreaction What to do when a colleague just won’t say what they really think Why emotional intelligence starts with checking your own biology How leaders can roll out the red carpet for disagreement What to say when you wish you'd handled it better - and how to keep the connection If you’ve ever found yourself walking on eggshells, stuck in surface-level agreement, or unsure how to speak up without setting off alarm bells - this one’s for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Amy Gallo is a workplace expert who writes and speaks about gender, interpersonal dynamics, difficult conversations, feedback, and effective communication. She is the best-selling author of Getting Along: How to Work with Anyone (Even Difficult People) and the HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict, as well as hundreds of articles for Harvard Business Review. For the past four years, Amy has co-hosted HBR’s popular Women at Work podcast, which examines the struggles and successes of women in the workplace. She is frequently sought out by media outlets for her perspective on workplace dynamics, conflict, and difficult conversations. Her advice has been featured in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Fast Company, Marketplace, Bloomberg Business, and NPR, as well as on WNYC, the BBC, and ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation). Find out more at www.amyegallo.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-gallo-31b9932/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amyegallo/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

16. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Fear, Uncertainty and Improvisation at Work - with Rob Poynton

    How do we lead when we don’t have the answers? In this episode I chat with Rob Poynton to explore how fear and uncertainty can lead to presence, creativity and connection. Rob teaches improvisation at Oxford’s Saïd Business School and works with leaders around the world to help them navigate complexity, uncertainty and change with curiosity rather than control. We explore how improvisational principles like pausing, presence and “yes, and…” offer practical ways to meet fear, navigate change and uncover surprising paths forward. Drawing on leadership, mindfulness, military history and theatre, this conversation is full of unexpected insights and memorable metaphors. Together we unpack: Why fear narrows our focus - and how to shift our perspective How overreliance on speed and certainty limits leadership What it means to “prepare a territory, not a path” How fear can actually lead to energy, joy and creative flow What leaders can do when facing resistance, mess or not-knowing If you’ve ever found yourself stuck in uncertainty or trying to lead through change without a clear plan - this one’s for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Rob is the author of: ‘Do Conversation’, ‘Do Pause’ (and ‘Do – Improvise’). He divides his time between an off grid house in rural Spain and Oxford, where he is an Associate Fellow at the Saïd Business School. For Rob, career has always been more a verb than a noun. Probably because he believes in playing around with things (and people) rather than trying to control them. For over twenty years he has designed and facilitated workshops, retreats and pauses. In 2020, in a bout of invention prompted by the pandemic he founded Yellow (small group, slow burn reflective learning) which, from its virtual beginnings has now migrated into real life, hosting and holding physical events and retreats, often in spectacular places, with remarkably little structure. Find out more at robertpoynton.com and yellowlearning.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-poynton-169402/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robert.poynton The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

17. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Workplace Trust and Emotional Fitness - with Paul Zak

    What does neuroscience tell us about trust, fear, and how we work together? In this episode I chat with Dr. Paul Zak to explore how the brain responds to fear and stress – and what that means for leadership, teamwork and performance at work. A pioneer in the neuroscience of trust, Paul shares insights from two decades of research into what drives collaboration, motivation and emotional fitness in the workplace. From high-stakes trading floors to Silicon Valley, he reveals why fear is a poor long-term motivator – and how trust, connection and challenge are key to building high-performing teams. We discuss: Why trust is more productive than pressure The brain science behind motivation, burnout and recovery The difference between challenge stress and chronic stress How hierarchy and dominance displays erode engagement Practical ways to create cultures of trust, safety and shared purpose We also explore how Paul’s research helps us recognise and rethink High-Functioning Fear – when fear hides behind overperformance, people-pleasing or control – and how organisations can move from survival mode to spaces where people truly thrive. If you’re curious about the science of human connection, emotional fitness and what makes work truly work – this one’s for you. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest Dr. Paul J. Zak is a neuroscientist, author and Distinguished University Professor at Claremont Graduate University, ranked among the top 0.3% of most cited scientists. His two decades of research on trust, fear and human connection have taken him from the Pentagon to Fortune 50 boardrooms and remote villages in Papua New Guinea. He’s the author of several books, including The Trust Factor and Immersion: The Science of the Extraordinary and the Source of Happiness, and is the founder of Immersion Neuroscience. A four-time tech entrepreneur and regular TED speaker, his work has featured in The New York Times, The Economist, and Scientific American. His latest project, Your6, is a free app that helps people track happiness using neuroscience. Find out more at https://pauljzak.com and https://your6.com The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

18. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Fear, Ego and Systemic Leadership - with David McQueen

    What if leadership isn’t about the hero – but the ecosystem? In this conversation, I talk with leadership coach and TED Fellow David McQueen about fear, ego, and why we need systemic leadership now more than ever. David is an international speaker, business advisor and author of The BRAVE Leader: More Courage, Less Fear, Better Decisions for Inclusive Leadership. His work spans global corporations, nonprofits and public sector organisations – helping leaders make braver, more inclusive decisions in a world that often rewards speed, certainty and control. Together, we unpack how fear shows up in leadership, risk-taking, and organisational culture – and how to move beyond performative leadership into something more purposeful, sustainable and real. We explore: The difference between bravado and bravery Leadership as a function, not a title How fear limits inclusion and diversity The myth of the hero leader – and what systemic leadership really looks like Why fast decisions aren’t always brave decisions Questions that challenge our defaults: What are you really afraid of? If you’ve ever felt the pressure to prove yourself, lead from the front, or react fast – this episode invites you to lead differently: from courage, not control. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ About Guest David McQueen is a leadership coach, international speaker and facilitator. He is the co-founder of professional development company Q Squared Ltd, the host of The BRAVE Leader podcast, and a blogger on all things leadership and culture change. David’s work has taken him all over the world, working in both profit and non-profit sectors. His clients include Aviva, JP Morgan, Bloomberg, Google, Facebook, Mercedes-Benz, Tate & Lyle and UnLtd. He is also a three-time TEDx speaker and a TED Fellow. He is the author of The BRAVE Leader: More Courage. Less Fear. Better Decisions for Inclusive Leadership - a practical guide to navigating leadership with integrity, clarity, and courage. Find out more at https://davidmcqueen.co.uk/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

19. 

    7 Sept 2025

    Official Trailer: Welcome to What The Fear?! Season 01

    What The Fear?! is a brand new podcast with award-winning author and productivity expert Grace Marshall. We’re diving into High Functioning Fear® - the kind that hides in busyness, overthinking, people-pleasing, perfectionism and relentless productivity. The fear that shapes how we work, lead, and live, often without ever looking like fear. Each episode, Grace sits down with researchers, thinkers and practitioners for honest conversations about fear, courage, and being human at work. Subscribe now and get ready to rethink your relationship with fear - with curiosity, clarity, and courage. Continue the conversation with Grace here: gracemarshall.com LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/ Instagram: instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/ The podcast was produced by pronkproductions.com

Inside a recent episode

Fear under pressure: from CIA to CEO - with Rupal Patel

Published 6 Sept 2026 · Transcript excerpt

[…] No one can be the expert at everything and have all the answers about everything. So to acknowledge when you don't know something and then to do the work to either figure it out or ask for help from those who do. Absolutely. And one thing we do know about ego as well is like if we are in that space of like being ego led or that fear of ego being an issue. And I guess we could see that as fear, you know, that fear of not being enough, the fear of like, I need to prove myself. what that does is it changes the purpose within the room for that individual so it's like all of a sudden I'm not here to do the whatever we're here to do I'm here to prove myself and so actually that idea of having a really strong focus and purpose of like what are we in the room to do and I'm you know I'm imagining actually I wonder if it was And you can tell me, like, was it clearer in those kind of situations in the CIA when you had a briefing, when you had a meeting? […]

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