What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem
Boxlight Creative Studio
- 17
- Episodes
- 2026
- First episode
About What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem
In a crazy world, how do we get better leaders? This is the boardroom, unplugged. — Whether starting out, or a seasoned leader, you face a world we’ve never seen before - the future of work, politics, technology and society is harder to predict than ever. So how do we survive the uncertainty and thrive in complexity? The successful leaders of the future will need a different set of skills and come from a broader range of backgrounds. This is for you. We’re by leaders, for leaders - human stories, messy realities, tips and tricks to use today… not corporate talking points or retrospective perfection. How it really felt, the stuff we don’t see, the advice and events that shaped you and the hard-won wisdom you’d pass on to future leaders. — What We Don’t Know is a collaboration between: Dame Hayaatun Sillem & Boxlight Creative Studio - the award winning production powerhouse behind UK’s biggest business shows.
- Publisher
- Boxlight Creative Studio
- Category
- business · education
- Language
- en
- Explicit
- No
- First episode
- 31 Mar 2026
- Latest episode
- 17 Jul 2026
Latest episodes
17 episodes in the feed.
17 Jul 2026
From Boots the Chemist to Lewis Hamilton's Boardroom - Dr. Hayaatun Sillem & Jimmy McLoughlin OBE
This week, a special crossover episode: Jimmy's Jobs of the Future meets What We Don't Know. Hayaatun Sillem spent eight years as CEO of the Royal Academy of Engineering - the first woman, and the first person in over two decades, to hold the role. Before that: 8 years of biochemistry, a walkout from the lab that ended her PhD overnight, and a stint advising Parliament on everything from forensic science to carbon capture. She also co-chaired Lewis Hamilton's commission on the representation of Black people in UK motorsport, and is now a founding trustee of his charity, Mission 44. In this conversation, Jimmy and Hayaatun cover the moment people mistook her for anyone but the CEO, the leadership skill she thinks is most underrated, the decision to leave a job she loved while she was still doing her best work, and why she thinks "more jazz than classical" is the only way to lead through uncertainty now. 🔗 Watch more from Jimmy's Jobs of the Future: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxoL7OXNn-JuGzZj7LQrtIA/ — What We Don't Know is a podcast about better leadership in a crazy, uncertain world, co-hosted by Hayaatun Sillem CBE and Matt Brittin CBE, produced in partnership with Boxlight Creative Studio. If you have any questions or want to come on the show, email us at: whatwedontknow@boxlight.io ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ---- TIMESTAMPS Timestamps 00:00 — Intro 01:00 — First job: Boots the Chemist, £2.32 an hour 01:09 — Becoming head girl 01:12 — The lab walkout that ended her PhD 01:15 — Parliament and the Science & Technology Select Committee 01:22 — What the Royal Academy of Engineering actually does 01:26 — Working with Lewis Hamilton 01:32 — Becoming CEO — "So what is it you do here?" 01:35 — The most underrated leadership skill 01:39 — Splitting the leadership team 01:41 — Deciding when to leave 01:43 — "More jazz than classical" — how leadership has changed 01:44 — What's next: starting a new venture, "back yourself" 01:50 — Quick fire round 01:53 — Most embarrassing moment as a leader 01:55 — What she failed at 01:59 — Is AI overhyped? 02:01 — What separates great from exceptional 02:04 — Outro ---- Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
8 Jul 2026
From Leaving Dyson to The Washing Machine Project | Navjot Sawhney
What Washing Machines Teach Us About Leadership | Navjot Sooni & The Washing Machine Project This time Hayaatun is joined by Navjot Sawhney, founder of The Washing Machine Project, about how engineering and leadership intersect through a mission to reduce the unpaid labor of hand-washing clothes. Nav describes being raised by his mother and sisters after his father died when he was eight, early leadership roles encouraged by his mother, and values of Sikh seva and Jugaad problem-solving. After working at Dyson, he quit to work with Engineers Without Borders in India, where he met Divya, whose lack of electricity and running water inspired him to create a manual washing machine. The patented flat-pack Divya machine saves 75% of time and 50% of water, has impacted over 100,000 lives, won Time Invention of the Year, and is scaling with partners like Whirlpool and JCDecaux, aiming to reach 1 million people by 2030. 00:00 Intro 00:27 Meet Nav 02:45 Founder Life Today 03:52 Curious Childhood Roots 05:24 Loss and Raised by Women 07:12 Responsibility as Leadership 10:13 Seva Scouts and Service 11:26 Engineering and Jugaad 13:08 Dyson Dream and Culture 16:23 Purpose Crisis and Leap 19:49 India Fieldwork Reality 23:07 Washing Machine Born 26:41 Scale of the Problem 28:12 Humanitarian Training Tests 29:42 Divya Machine Impact 30:37 Leading a Blended Movement 31:12 Building a Movement 33:26 Keeping Divya Central 35:08 Billboards and Partnerships 36:41 Frugal Innovation Matters 39:21 Identity and Team Space 40:52 Resilience and Chardikala 43:58 Learning to Scale Leadership 46:06 Aspirations and Legacy 48:01 Salad Spinner Origins 49:03 Iterating with User Feedback 51:20 Pitching and Funding Reality 54:01 People Who Inspire 55:18 Quick Fire Round 01:00:08 Reflections Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
1 Jul 2026
Why Coachability Beats Talent (And It Costs Your Promotions) | Nationwide former CEO Joe Garner
Joe Garner (Ex-CEO Nationwide) on Leading Through Crisis, Values-Driven Culture & Sustainable Performance Hayaatun interviews Joe Garner, former CEO of Nationwide Building Society (and previously at HSBC and Openreach), now an advisor to CEOs across the private and public sectors and the royal household. Garner traces formative experiences from age 11, his early leadership through rowing, and career lessons from P&G’s principle-led culture, a brief command-and-control dotcom stint, and the fast-paced environment at Dixons/Currys. He describes empowerment at HSBC via a signed “blank” £3m marketing spend and explains how crises like the financial crisis and COVID drove introspection about ethics and decision-making. Joe argues business overuses incentives and fear versus motivating through purpose, potential and play, and shares removing variable incentives at Nationwide. He emphasizes self-discipline, stopping before “finishing,” staying balanced, coachability (growth mindset), culture, and transitioning from workmates to playmates via sport. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Blank Check Leadership 00:42 Welcome to the Show 01:25 Meet Joe Garner 02:35 Life at Nationwide 04:21 Childhood Turning Point 07:22 Rowing Into Leadership 08:58 First Jobs and Values 10:39 Culture Clash Startup 12:22 Retail to Banking Leap 15:12 Crisis and Decision Ethics 16:53 The Private Lessons Book 18:42 Motivation Beyond Bonuses 24:19 Leading Under Pressure 27:56 Wolves and Wise Sayings 28:19 Wolf Proverbs Wisdom 29:16 Early Alarm Optimization 32:17 Discipline CEO Tradeoffs 35:02 Sport After CEO Life 38:07 Coachable Growth Mindset 40:41 CEO Coaching Framework 42:34 Stop Before Finish 44:15 Finance Culture Manosphere 46:57 Quick Fire Reflections 51:08 Episode Takeaways Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
24 Jun 2026
The Tech Industry Forgot That Women Exist | Dr Anne-Marie Imafidon
Women in tech, AI bias, gender inequality, and the future of work Dr Anne-Marie Imafidon pulls no punches. Child prodigy, STEMettes founder, Countdown arithmetician, and government adviser on women in technology. She built STEMettes from £300 to £1.2 million. She watched the internet lose its mind over a Black woman doing maths on daytime TV. And she's spent 13 years trying to fix a tech industry that keeps building products that forget half the world exists. In this episode: why tolerating a brilliant jerk is a leadership failure. What leaders actually mean when they say they "can't find" female talent. Why crash test dummies based on women's bodies only arrived in 2025. And what a portfolio career looks like when you're genuinely living one. We also get into work, life, and legacy as a single equation - and why her definition of success has nothing to do with status. Dr Anne-Marie Imafidon - Head STEMette, DSIT Women in Tech Envoy, Chancellor of Glasgow Caledonian University, former Countdown arithmetician. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:30 Meet Anne-Marie Imafidon 02:35 Life as a Multi-Hyphenate 05:07 Balancing Time and Legacy 10:48 The Child Prodigy Myth 16:53 Opportunity Not Talent 20:45 Careers Advice and Pivots 24:55 School Trip Dog Drama 28:34 First Lessons in Leadership 32:56 Starting STEMettes Origins 35:46 Launching Stemettes 36:56 From Side Project to Scale 39:15 Tech Power and Bias 43:37 Leaders Fix the System 47:57 Inclusive Rooms That Worked 51:52 Countdown Behind the Scenes 56:44 Representation and Backlash 01:02:22 Future Skills for Work 01:07:27 What Comes Next 01:09:42 Quickfire and Wrap Up 01:13:27 Host Reflections and Farewell Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
17 Jun 2026
What David Miliband & The Nudge Unit Taught Me About Leadership | Ravi Gurumurthy, Nesta CEO
Ravi Gurumurthy on Leading Nesta: Missions, Policy, Experimentation, and Intrinsic Motivation Welcome to What We Don't Know. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Today, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of @jimmysjobs, to chat with Ravi Gurumurthy, CEO of Nesta, about leading mission-driven innovation in an uncertain world. Ravi explains Nesta’s three “moonshot” missions - halving obesity, achieving net zero homes, and closing the school-readiness gap for children on free school meals, and shaping policy from practical learning. Ravi also reflects on his background in Burnley, early rebellious leadership, experiences of racism, and a rapid rise in the civil service, including work on Every Child Matters, the Children Act 2004, and the Climate Change Act. We also cover policymaking’s short-termism, better use of data and trials, how AI and synthetic data could help, learning from failure through “crash testing,” the importance of dosage and numbers, and why leaders should focus on intrinsic motivation over incentives. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:52 Meet Ravi and Nesta 06:46 CEO Role and Missions 09:17 Family Roots and Oxford 12:21 Early Leadership and Identity 14:18 Fast Track in Government 16:17 Mentors and Learning Leadership 18:33 Policy Horizons and Data 26:29 AI and Synthetic Data 29:06 Experimentation and Failure 30:08 Donor Embraces Findings 30:39 Blunkett Sack Letter 32:10 Risk Over Safety 33:40 Ungovernable Leadership 34:42 Rituals For Failure 35:54 Crash Testing Ideas 37:01 CEO As Thought Leader 40:03 Measuring Social Impact 41:49 MacKay Numbers Not Adjectives 43:56 Preparing For Policy 46:30 Motivation Beyond Incentives 47:39 Insecurity And Identity 49:03 Future Career Paths 51:08 Quick Fire Round 53:59 Dogs And Social Capital 54:55 Change Is Harder Than Thought 55:54 Hosts Reflect And Wrap Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
10 Jun 2026
Why The Best Leaders Don't Need To Prove Themselves | Hetti Barkworth-Nanton
Hetti Barkworth-Nanton on Humility, Purpose & Leading Through Trauma | What We Don’t Know (Eden Project) Recorded in the Eden Project Rainforest Dome at the Anthropy conference, Hayaatun speaks with Hetti Barkworth-Nanton, CEO of Ploughshare and chair of Refuge, about leading change across defense innovation and domestic abuse services. Hetti explains how Ploughshare spins Ministry of Defence innovations into civil applications, sharing examples from water-protective coatings used in Samsung phones to laser-detection tech adapted from battlefield needs to air ambulances and sport. She traces formative influences - rural upbringing, her father’s death, early lessons on commitment, and being “spark spotted” into senior roles at British Airways, including being the “Project God.” Hetti describes the murder of her friend Jo Simpson, resulting trauma therapy, later breast cancer, and how these experiences drove her campaigning, founding the Joanna Simpson Foundation, and her leadership at Refuge amid controversy and difficult board decisions. Key lessons: systems thinking, curiosity, resilience, boundaries, and humility. Chapters 00:00 Intro 00:45 Welcome To Eden Project 02:35 Two Leadership Roles 04:33 Rural Roots And Loss 08:01 Finding Self Belief 09:56 Strawberry Field Commitment 11:10 BA Breakthrough Roles 16:17 Project God And Servant Leadership 22:29 Why Domestic Abuse Matters 27:19 Trauma Therapy And Authenticity 29:49 Trauma and Cancer Reset 33:24 Purpose Over Corporate Life 35:06 Finding Ploughshare Mission 37:55 Defense Tech Impact Shift 40:56 UK Innovation System Fixes 43:11 Sentinel Photonics Story 45:59 Leading Two Careers Openly 48:16 Refuge Board Tough Calls 51:14 Resilience and Burnout Signs 53:55 Quickfire Leadership Lessons 57:16 Host Wrap and Takeaways Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Have thoughts or questions? Email us at whatwedontknow@boxlight.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4 Jun 2026
Andy Haldane: The Jobs Crisis & How to Rebuild UK Skills | What We Don't Know
Andy Haldane: Crisis, Opportunity & Rebuilding UK Skills | What We Don’t Know Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. This is the show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ----------- In this episode, Matt Brittin and Hayaatun Sillem sit down with Andy Haldane to discuss his leadership roles as Chancellor of the University of Sheffield and President of the British Chambers of Commerce, motivated by working at the intersection of public sector, business, civil society and academia. Andy describes how repeated shocks from the global financial crisis through Brexit, COVID, the cost-of-living shock and geopolitical uncertainty, that have “scarred” institutions and fueled caution that weakens growth, echoing Keynes’s paradox of thrift. Reflecting on decades at the Bank of England, Haldane frames crises as moments when the Overton window opens for lasting reform, shaped by early experience of the 1992 ERM exit and teenage exposure to 1980s recession. He argues robust solutions to complex problems are often simple, emphasizes active listening as a core leadership skill, and highlights influences from small-business owners. He calls the UK’s central challenge a major reimagining of schools and skills to tackle economic inactivity, guarantee pathways to apprenticeships or degrees, and share leadership across sectors. 00:00 Meet Andy Haldane 00:29 Cross Sector Leadership 02:25 Scarred By Crises 04:55 Crisis As Opportunity 08:44 Early Leadership Spark 12:28 Climbing Big Mountains 14:55 Introvert Strengths 20:09 Metaphors And Listening 27:52 Governors And Advice 31:41 Carney and Brexit 34:03 Career Growth Beyond Banking 35:57 Outrider Thinking and Cross Discipline 38:20 Pro Bono Economics and Leaving 39:50 Sustainable Work and Creativity 44:14 Skills Gap and Opportunity 47:12 Reimagining Schools and Training 50:49 Leadership as Team Sport 52:41 Speed Round and Wrap Up Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
30 May 2026
What Negotiating With Putin & Gaddafi Taught Me About Leadership | Lord John Browne
Lord John Browne on Engineering Thinking, Leading BP, Climate Risk, Negotiating Putin & Coming Out in Business | What We Don’t Know Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. Matt Brittin is the former President at Google EMEA. After 18 years at one of the world's biggest companies, he stepped down, took a gap year, and recently became the Director General of the BBC. Dr. Hayaatun Sillem spent a few years leading the Royal Academy of Engineering and was awarded the Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering. This is the show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ In this episode of What We Don’t Know, Hayaatun and Matt sit down with Lord John Browne. He discusses how he describes himself as a businessman, author, and above all an engineer, explaining how engineering training shaped his systematic approach from writing to boardrooms and science. He reflects on childhood habits of dismantling clocks, the importance of proper tools, and his early life at King’s School Ely and Cambridge, influenced by a soldier father and a Holocaust-survivor mother who stressed self-sufficiency and looking forward. Browne recounts joining BP in 1966, learning about unions and refinery work, and formative engineering experience on Alaska’s North Slope, including early computer optimization work. He describes leadership lessons from Stanford Business School—purpose, inclusion, listening, and negotiation—and his path to becoming BP CEO in 1994, reorganizing BP around customer-oriented business units, and addressing climate risk through internal analysis, methane reduction, carbon pricing, and renewables. He shares negotiation insights from dealings with leaders including Putin, Gaddafi, and others, then explains writing The Glass Closet after being outed in 2007 and arguing for workplace environments where people can be themselves, with safety and pragmatism. 00:00 Intro 01:38 Taking Things Apart 02:50 Joining BP in 1966 03:15 School and Rowing Days 05:06 Parents and Upbringing 07:41 Lessons From His Mother 09:22 Early BP Apprenticeship 11:41 Alaska and First Big Break 15:10 Stanford and Learning Leadership 19:50 Becoming BP CEO 24:18 Rebuilding BP and Climate Wakeup 28:51 Oil And Climate Reality 29:44 Speaking Up On Climate 31:10 Negotiating With Putin 35:39 Hard Lessons In Dealmaking 37:19 Writing The Glass Closet 39:09 Being Outed As CEO 44:05 Inclusion With Pragmatism 45:48 Resilience And Reinvention 50:25 Optimism And Future Tech 52:44 Speed Round And Farewell Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
20 May 2026
Why The Best Leaders Make Wrong Decisions | What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem
Leading Through Uncertainty: Clarity, Vulnerability & Decision-Making in a Chaotic World | What We Don’t Know Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ In this episode of What We Don’t Know, Hayaatun and Matt explore how leadership must evolve to meet chronic uncertainty, shifting from alpha certainty to humility, adaptability, and earned trust. They discuss why clarity of purpose matters more than false certainty, how strategy can provide agency while leaving room for flexibility, and why leaders need faster shared learning cycles and better “intel” from across their networks. Hayaatun shares how the pandemic forced her to blend personal and professional life, show vulnerability, and finally ask for help when she felt close to unraveling, reframing self-monitoring as being “safe to drive the bus.” Matt Brittin reflects on learning decisiveness in ambiguous choices and describes leading Google’s response in Russia after the Ukraine invasion, prioritizing people’s safety and values. Matt and Hayaatun also answer audience questions on fear, decisiveness, resilience, and admitting “I don’t know.” 00:00 Welcome and theme 01:21 Leadership playbook shifts 02:35 Pandemic as pivot 05:02 Strategy under pressure 06:56 Clarity and agency 09:50 Collaboration and intel 12:59 Sandstorm metaphor 13:57 Vulnerability in public 16:09 Asking for help 19:19 Decisiveness lesson 23:35 Russia Ukraine crisis 27:44 Chronic uncertainty stamina 29:41 Personal boardroom 30:31 Cognitive diversity 31:28 Facing Worst Cases 32:59 Welcoming Dissent 34:06 Admitting Not Okay 35:26 Peer Support Breakthrough 39:18 Safe to Drive Bus 40:18 Asking for Help 41:21 Leadership Inspiration 42:23 Learning Model Mentors 44:03 Books Beyond Leadership 45:07 Zak Brown Authenticity 47:51 Dystopian Leadership Lessons 50:25 Sleep as Leadership Fuel 51:57 Audience Questions Rapidfire 53:21 Decisive Versus Right 54:33 Resilience Not Denial 55:17 Leading Without Answers 56:43 Beyond Crisis Identity Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
13 May 2026
Co-CEOs, Devil Wears Prada 2, AI Creativity, Brian Chesky's Hiring | What We Don't Know: Watercooler
Awards, AI, Co-CEOs & Loyalty | What We Don't Know Watercooler Hayaatun and Jimmy pull up a chair at the coffee machine to catch up on what's been catching their eye - the City AM Awards, The Devil Wears Prada 2, a controversial Airbnb CEO interview, and your questions on noise, loyalty, and whether AI will swamp the best human ideas. Timestamps 00:00 Welcome to the coffee machine 00:45 Are awards overrated, or do we actually need them? 02:00 The UK startups that got away: why the post-pandemic story isn't as bleak as you think 04:00 The Devil Wears Prada 2 and what pop culture gets right about loving hard work 05:30 Brian Chesky personally hires Airbnb's top 200 — genius or quietly disempowering? 08:30 Co-CEOs: bold leadership model or recipe for confusion? 12:00 Q from Flora: how do you find the signal in the noise? 16:30 Q from the comments: how long should you stay loyal to an organisation? 19:30 Q from Ken: will a billion AI ideas drown out the one great human one? 22:30 See you next time Resource: 🎙️ Brian Chesky: AI Founder Mode — Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy — https://colossus.com/episode/ai-founder-mode/ 📰 Pilita Clark: Why co-CEOs might suit our tumultuous times (FT / Irish Times) — https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2026/05/04/why-co-ceos-might-suit-our-tumultuous-times/ 📖 Reid Hoffman: Tours of Duty — The New Employer-Employee Compact (HBR) — https://hbr.org/2013/06/tours-of-duty-the-new-employer-employee-compact Episodes mentioned: ▶️ Mark Read — Leading 22,000 Employees Who Bet Against You: https://youtu.be/O6oWoVf5X3I ▶️ Natasha Frangos — The Imposter Feeling Every Leader Faces: https://youtu.be/a9AHf_pMHgg ▶️ Sharon White — Why The Best Leaders Are Impossible to Read: https://youtu.be/JluTfnfJYD4 📧 Send us thoughts and questions at whatwedontknow@boxlight.io 💼 Follow us on socials!: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatwedontknow.pod/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/what-we-dont-know-podcast/ Jimmy's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmy-mcloughlin-obe/ Hayaatun's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayaatun/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6 May 2026
Ex John Lewis Boss: Why The Best Leaders Are Impossible to Read | Sharon White
Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ This week, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of @jimmysjobs , to welcome Baroness Sharon White. Sharon White traces her journey from a working-class East London childhood — daughter of Windrush generation parents who left school at 11 and 14 — through 26 years as one of Whitehall's most senior but deliberately invisible civil servants, to leading OFCOM and later the John Lewis Partnership through COVID and financial turbulence. She shares why being impossible to read became a strategic asset, how the insider/outsider experience of growing up as a minority shaped her willingness to hold unpopular positions, and why she believes the problems facing political leaders today are categorically harder than a generation ago. She reflects on what it takes to lead 80,000 partners through a democratic business structure unlike anything in the private sector, why a reluctant regulator is a better regulator, and how to tell the difference between noise and what's actually real when everything feels urgent. She also discusses building crisis-ready teams before the crisis hits, the leadership skill she thinks nobody talks about enough — and what her teenage son taught her about inclusion. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:38 Introducing Sharon White 03:56 What To Expect Today 04:30 Backstage At Number 10 06:53 Politics In The Social Media Age 08:36 Childhood And Immigrant Roots 13:43 Finding Her Voice 20:02 Purpose Across Career Switches 29:03 Earning Trust In New Worlds 32:50 Becoming Public Facing 36:40 Reluctant Regulator Mindset 40:28 Partnership Democracy Model 41:12 Customer Love and Stakeholders 43:20 Employee Ownership Pride 45:25 Resilience and Gratitude Mindset 47:30 Growth Needs Brave Leadership 51:12 Leading Through Constant Crises 53:07 Parenthood and Inclusion Lessons 56:18 Bravery and De Klerk Story 59:05 Quickfire Leadership Questions 01:01:33 Hosts Reflect on Key Takeaways 01:07:33 Duolingo Taxi Hiring Test 01:11:54 Meta AI Leader Avatars Debate 01:14:12 Wrap Up and Stay Connected Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
29 Apr 2026
Mandela’s Secret Weapon: How Empathy Can Topple a Dictator
From Apartheid to Ubuntu: Paul’s Journey with Mandela, Tutu & the Truth Commission Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ Paul recounts growing up white in apartheid South Africa with parents who opposed the regime, joining the anti-apartheid student movement, working on death penalty cases for a young black lawyer who was assassinated, and helping victims’ families build Kule Manni. At 26 he helped develop the Truth and Reconciliation Commission law and became its executive secretary under Archbishop Tutu, sharing leadership lessons about preserving opponents’ dignity and Mandela’s openness to hearing testimony about ANC abuses. He discusses empathy and Ubuntu as foundations for resilient societies, the role of information ecosystems and economic breakdown in modern polarization, and ways to embed Ubuntu in organizational culture. He describes the personal toll of trauma, later scaling transitional justice support globally by offering comparative experience rather than prescriptions, and founding London’s Conduit to convene coalitions tackling complex challenges like UK flooding. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
22 Apr 2026
The Imposter Feeling Every Leader Faces (And How to Beat It) | Natasha Frangos
Positive Leadership in a Chaotic World: Natasha Frangos on Culture, Growth, and Leading a Partnership Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ Recorded at the Anthropy Conference at the Eden Project in Cornwall, Hayaatun interviews Natasha Frangos, managing partner of accountancy firm Haysmac, about leading with energy, authenticity, and optimism amid industry headwinds. Natasha shares how her Greek Cypriot upbringing, resilient grandmother, and accountant father shaped her leadership and view of trusted advisory relationships. She traces her path from leading the firm’s Creative Media & Tech sector to a firm-wide corporate role during COVID, then being elected as the firm’s first female managing partner in its first contested election. We cover partnership leadership and governance, culture as a driver of growth, developing and retaining homegrown talent, mentoring outside the sector, AI and automation strategy, competing as a mid-tier firm, staying independent amid PE consolidation, and sustaining energy through family, yoga, and theatre. 00:00 First Female Managing Partner 00:33 Rainforest Podcast Setup 02:27 Natasha Role Overview 03:47 Family Roots and Resilience 08:18 Ambition and Peer Support 09:45 Ant Trail Interlude 10:14 First Leadership Sector Focus 12:22 Founder Lessons and Investors 15:29 COVID Board Leadership 18:03 Chief Herder of Cats 19:47 Election and Imposter Feelings 23:03 Mentors and Outside Perspective 24:37 Growth Is Never Done 25:43 Creating Shared Momentum 27:31 People Over Numbers 29:24 Defining Culture In Practice 31:49 AI Anxiety And Upskilling 34:51 Mid Size Edge And Partnerships 37:22 Staying Energized As Leader 39:03 Role Model Pressure And Legacy 41:53 Big Priorities For The Year 44:25 Quickfire Leadership Round 47:50 Consolidation And Career Loyalty 51:25 West London And Final Takeaways 53:59 Closing Reflections And Wrap Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
15 Apr 2026
Why Great Leaders Stop Trying To Be Busy
Time Management for Leaders: The 4Ds, Being Present, and Making Busy Work Matter Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Hayaatun and Matt explore why leaders obsess over time and how choices, not sheer scarcity, shape outcomes. They discuss practical tools for overload, including Hayaatun’s “4Ds” (delegate, delay, drop, do), getting worries out of your head and into reliable systems (quadrant to-do lists, calendars, colored pens), and tackling the scariest task first to reduce stress. Hayaatun shares formative lessons from the high-pressure pace of the House of Commons and the value of trusted teamwork, while Matt reflects on preparing for leadership “set pieces,” using low-meeting days, processing time (commutes), and block time for deep work. They cover signals leaders send through calendars, the importance of hiring and tough conversations, meeting waste, and why sleep matters despite occasional crunches. 00:00 Zombie Consultants Intro 00:33 Time Choices Question 01:32 Meet The Hosts 02:09 Leader Time Signals 04:30 Four Ds Framework 06:10 Drop And Do 08:30 Quadrant List System 12:07 House Of Commons Pace 16:40 Fast Drafting Lesson 20:02 Prepared CEO Style 22:54 Safety Valves And Fridays 24:47 Calendar As Choices 27:02 Sauna Politician Aside 27:49 PhD Roots Of Time 29:01 Overwhelm And Fear 29:41 Do Scary Thing First 30:52 PhD Stress Triggers 32:20 Emotions As Data 34:19 Peak Hours Block Time 35:23 Travel Energy Management 37:42 Busy Leader Signals 40:48 What Leaders Cant Delegate 43:53 Chunk Time Strategy 46:16 Calendar And Team Alignment 51:15 Time Audits And Meetings 53:56 Sleep And Crunch Times 56:36 Key Takeaways On Time Management Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Post Producer: Ben Alexander Kippen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
8 Apr 2026
Former WPP Boss on Return to Office Backlash and Doing the Right Thing
Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Mark Read on Leading WPP Through Chaos: Succession, Return-to-Office, AI & Creative Culture In this episode of What We Don’t Know, hosts Hayaatun and Matt interview Mark Read, who recently stepped down as CEO of WPP, about the realities of leading a 100,000-person global public company serving major clients like Google, Coca-Cola, Unilever, and Ford. Mark discusses moving from head-office “pigeon” roles to running a business, following a founder with a very different style, and why succession planning enables promotion. He shares CEO disciplines like fast responsiveness, balancing urgent vs important work, and communicating at scale during COVID. He explains his controversial return-to-office policy, handling a large employee petition, and learning to engage better. Mark also argues AI will transform work but won’t replace human judgment and creativity, illustrating with a “Fitbit on a chicken” campaign, and reflects on early-tenure decision-making, career risk-taking, and his next chapter. 00:00 Beachside Leadership Hook 00:45 Meet Mark Read 02:29 CEO Scope and Pressure 05:12 Early Career Origins 08:47 Learning by Doing 12:51 From Pigeon to Operator 15:54 Stepping Up to CEO 19:30 Taking the WPP Helm 22:39 Succeeding the Founder 26:03 Inbox Discipline and Introverts 29:08 Leading Your Own Way 30:18 Interviewing Visionaries 31:05 Elon Musk Takeaways 31:54 Showing Up as CEO 35:07 Return to Office Debate 39:25 Data Behind Attendance 40:06 Optimism in AI Era 41:52 Fit Chick Creativity Story 43:38 Building Creative Culture 46:49 Leadership Lessons Ahead 49:18 Next Chapter Plans 51:38 Quickfire Round Finale 53:42 Hosts Reflect and Wrap Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Post Producer: Ben Alexander Kippen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
1 Apr 2026
Who Is Matt Brittin? | What We Don't Know
Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Today we meet our co-host, Matt Brittin! After 18 years at Google - including a decade running Europe, the Middle East and Africa — Matt Brittin has stepped away from one of the most powerful roles in global tech. In this first episode of What We Don’t Know, hosts Hayaatun Sillem and Matt turn the lens inward - unpacking what happens when high-performance leadership stops, and what comes next. Matt opens up about his “midlife gap year,” life after intensity, and learning to be present again following the loss of his father. From a disruptive childhood to rowing for Great Britain — and a very public defeat in the Cambridge Boat Race — he reflects on the moments that shaped how he builds teams and leads under pressure. They also go deep on what really drove Google’s success: hiring at scale, building diverse teams, setting ruthless clarity of priorities, and the simple principle - put the best people on the most important problems, then get out of the way. Plus: navigating public scrutiny on tax, YouTube extremism, and what leadership looks like when you have to say “we got this wrong” — and fix it. This is a conversation about leadership after the job title — and why the most important lessons often come from what we don’t know. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:33 What We Don’t Know 02:14 Meet Matt Today 02:40 Midlife Gap Year 04:52 Family Time and AI 07:29 What He Misses 09:02 Pottery and Reset 10:28 Growing Up Britain 12:05 Bored at School 13:22 Rowing Changes Everything 15:13 Teamwork Lessons 19:02 Failure and Turnaround 23:52 From Sport to Business 27:32 Why Google Won 28:57 Day One at Google 30:38 Scaling and Hiring 33:21 Culture of Help 33:59 Hiring for Scale 35:07 Fixing Hiring Bias 37:04 Becoming Public Spokesperson 39:44 Stories Backed by Data 41:17 Crisis Comms on YouTube 45:14 Select Committees Pressure 46:54 Leadership Lessons Learned 48:37 Big Tech Backlash 51:06 Next Chapter Purpose 52:39 Resilience and Energy 55:09 Why This Podcast 01:01:57 Making Podcasts Work 01:06:55 Rapid Fire Wrap 01:11:32 Closing and Thanks Follow Matt and Hayaatun below 👇 https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayaatun/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-brittin-cbe-5aa6391/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Post Producer: Ben Alexander Kippen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
31 Mar 2026
Trailer: What We Don't Know
In a world that feels increasingly chaotic and uncertain, what does leadership really look like - and what do even the most experienced leaders still not know? Hosted by Dr Hayaatun Sillem CBE and Matt Brittin, What We Don’t Know explores the realities of leadership today. Having both recently stepped down from major roles, they reflect on their own experiences while speaking with extraordinary guests from business, politics, technology and beyond. Together, they unpack the moments that shape leaders: crises, difficult decisions, unexpected lessons, and the questions that don’t always have easy answers. From negotiating with world leaders to navigating corporate chaos (and even finding lessons in nature), this podcast explores the human side of leadership - what works, what doesn’t, and what we’re all still figuring out. Follow the show and join the conversation as we explore the biggest question of all: what don’t we know about leadership yet? Credits Production Company: Boxlight Creative Studio Hosts: Matt Brittin CBE and Dr Hayaatun Sillem CBE Executive Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Lead Producer: Sunny Winter Junior Producer: Thuy Dong Editor: Ben Alexander Kippen Guest Booker & Operations: Vicki Gostling Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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