‘What We Said About Palestine’ is a powerful and insightful podcast series that delves into the complex and often contentious politics surrounding Palestine, examined through an Australian lens, with a particular focus on the ongoing conflict and humanitarian crises in Gaza, commencing from the events on October 7, 2023.
Each episode offers a mix of original content and curated sections from the highly regarded New Politics podcast and the presenters, Eddy Jokovich and David Lewis, bringing to the forefront the Australian perspective on the war in Gaza, the global reactions to the conflict, and the difficult conversations about genocide and human rights violations that demand attention.
‘What We Said About Palestine’ is more than just a podcast; it is a platform for advocacy and education. It encourages listeners to engage critically with the information presented, fostering a community that is informed, empathetic, and committed to justice. Whether you are new to the topic or well-versed in Middle Eastern politics, this series offers a valuable resource for anyone looking to deepen their understanding of one of the most enduring conflicts of our time.
Episode 13. Escalating tensions: Iran's strike and the pathway to Palestinian statehood (20 Apr 2024)
We discuss the recent significant escalation in the Middle East, as Iran launches over 300 missiles and drones toward Israel, marking a direct military response from Iranian territory for the first time. This action comes six months after a Hamas attack, with most of the Iranian projectiles being intercepted by Israeli, American, and allied forces. We discuss the underlying causes of this strike, including an Israeli attack on the Iranian embassy in Syria, which killed 16 Iranians, and explore the broader implications for regional stability.
We also explore the evolving political landscape concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Australian Senator Penny Wong's comments advocating for a two-state solution have stirred considerable debate. With 140 of the 193 UN member states recognizing the state of Palestine, the international community is poised for a critical vote on Palestinian statehood, despite expected opposition from permanent UN Security Council members like the United States.
Our discussion also covers the internal and external pressures on Australian politics, where leaders grapple with balancing national sentiment and international alliances. The episode unpacks the complexities of these geopolitical dynamics, the role of key figures like Benjamin Netanyahu, and the shifting strategies of nations in response to ongoing conflicts and humanitarian crises.
14 Oct 2024
Episode 12. The death of Zomi Frankcom and Australia's weak response (6 Apr 2024)
We examine a critical moment in the ongoing conflict in Gaza—the tragic death of Australian aid worker Zomi Frankcom and six colleagues from World Central Kitchen, killed by an Israeli Defense Force strike. Initially and deliberately misattributed to Hamas, the responsibility for the attack was ultimately acknowledged by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This incident has sparked a profound outcry in Australia, challenging the government's diplomatic posture toward Israel.
We explore the reactions from Australian leaders, including Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Foreign Minister Penny Wong, who have faced criticism for their historically cautious approach. In light of these events, both have made public their demands for accountability from Israel, reflecting a potential shift in Australia's foreign policy stance.
We look at the broader implications of this incident on international relations and domestic politics in Australia. With calls growing louder for more assertive actions such as recalling ambassadors and imposing sanctions, this episode could be a turning point for Australia. We discuss the pressure on the Australian government to realign its foreign policy, particularly in light of past positions held by Albanese and others within the Labour Party on Palestinian rights.
This discussion is set against a backdrop of increased public and political dissatisfaction with the Australian government's handling of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, highlighting the deep divisions and potent emotions surrounding this issue.
14 Oct 2024
Episode 11. Varoufakis on Gaza: A call for justice and policy change (3 Mar 2024)
In a riveting session at the National Press Club, Yanis Varoufakis, the former Greek Finance Minister and noted economist, delivers a compelling discourse on the dire situation in Gaza, critiquing global and Australian responses to the conflict. Varoufakis argues that the actions in Gaza, where civilians are not just collateral but targets of deliberate starvation and violence, constitute war crimes. He draws historical parallels with apartheid and challenges Australia to lead a campaign for justice in Israel-Palestine, reminiscent of its stance against apartheid in South Africa.
We explore how Australian foreign policy continues to mirror U.S. positions, to its detriment. Discussion points include Australia's tepid response to the humanitarian crisis, its refusal to differentiate from U.S. support for Israel, and the implications of such a stance on its global reputation. Varoufakis's critique extends to the broader media landscape, highlighting a failure in journalism that skews public perception and hampers effective policy making.
We also explore the personal and political repercussions of speaking out against these injustices, as noted by Varoufakis and other commentators during the lecture. The narrative is expanded with insights from former Australian Foreign Affairs Minister Gareth Evans and others, advocating for an urgent and principled re-evaluation of Australia's foreign policy.
14 Oct 2024
Episode 10. Media misrepresentation in the Gaza conflict (24 Feb 2024)
In this powerful episode, we explore the stark discrepancies in media coverage of the ongoing war in Gaza, particularly focusing on how these narratives influence public perception and policy. The discussion begins with a critical analysis of the disproportionate casualties between Israeli civilians and Palestinians, emphasising the severe impact on the latter. We highlight the role of major media outlets like News Corporation and Nine Media in shaping a narrative that often portrays one side favourably over the other.
We explore the broader consequences of biased reporting, noting how skewed narratives hinder political pressure and perpetuate the cycle of violence. They address the disturbing imagery of suffering that permeates social media, contrasting it with mainstream media's cautious approach due to fears of backlash from powerful Zionist groups. This episode isn't just about the conflict itself; it's about the struggle within the media to present balanced, ethical journalism amidst accusations of anti-Semitism and the politicization of media narratives.
We also discuss specific cases such as the tragic story of Hind Rajab, a six-year-old Palestinian girl caught in a deadly scenario that received scant attention in certain Australian media outlets. The episode concludes with a broader reflection on how media bias at the national level is mirrored in international platforms like the United Nations, affecting global policy and perceptions.
14 Oct 2024
Episode 9. Crisis in Gaza: Unfolding humanitarian and political strands (10 Feb 2024)
In this episode, we look into the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza as it continues into 2024. Israeli forces have fired at Palestinians collecting humanitarian aid, amidst rising tensions and escalating violence. We discuss the troubling events at the Kuwaiti roundabout in Gaza City, where desperate families gather daily for food. Further allegations have emerged about Israeli forces targeting trucks from the Palestinian relief agency, obstructing aid delivery to northern Gaza. The situation is exacerbated by the suspension of funding from the United States and Australia to the UN Relief and Works Agency, following unverified claims of misconduct. We analyse the statements from U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and the controversial stance of the Australian government, alongside broader international reactions to Israel's actions.
We also explore examines the political dimensions, focusing on the role of the Israeli parliament and the Palestinian government, and the critical perspectives from within the Australian Greens and the dissatisfaction among some members of the Labor government, voiced by Federal member for Fremantle, Josh Wilson, who highlights the dire situation in Gaza compared to global conflict zones.
5 Oct 2024
Episode 8. A broken Ceasefire: The continuing crisis and Australian weakness (12 Dec 2023)
There was cautious optimism about the ceasefire in Gaza, but that hope has quickly faded. The Israel Defense Forces have broken the truce, and the humanitarian crisis has worsened as more Palestinian civilians, including women and children, are killed. James Elder from UNICEF describes the dire conditions in Gaza, where sanitation and disease are rapidly becoming major issues.
In this episode, we look at how the international community continues to fail in taking decisive action to stop Israel’s aggression in Gaza and the West Bank. Despite calls for peace, including resolutions from Young Labor and 40 Labor branches, the situation remains unchanged. We also hear from Labor MP Stephen Jones, who advocates for an end to the war and a two-state solution, but as we discuss, it’s the action on the ground that truly matters, and right now, that action is lacking.
We also explore the growing voices of dissent within the Jewish community in Australia, many of whom oppose Israel’s current policies. Publisher Louise Adler speaks out about the influence of the Zionist lobby and the broader spectrum of Jewish opinion that’s often overlooked.
Finally, we discuss a recent incident where a peaceful protester in Sydney, holding a watermelon sign—symbolizing Palestinian resistance—was removed by police during an event with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. This raises questions about Albanese’s transformation from a young, left-leaning activist who once stood with Palestine, to a Prime Minister seemingly distanced from his roots. Has he forgotten where he came from, or is this just the reality of political power?
5 Oct 2024
Episode 7. Gaza ceasefire: A glimpse of hope amidst a brutal conflict (2 Dec 2023)
Episode 7. Gaza ceasefire: A glimpse of hope amidst a brutal conflict (2 Dec 2023)
After weeks of relentless violence in Gaza, a ceasefire has finally been reached—though it’s a ceasefire that Australia abstained from voting on just weeks ago. Initially planned for four days, it has now been extended twice, with hopes that it will lead to a permanent end to the fighting. As UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres remarked, this ceasefire offers a “glimpse of hope and humanity in the middle of the darkness of war.”
In this episode, we explore the immense toll this one-sided conflict has taken, with over 15,000 Palestinians and 1,200 Israelis killed. The civilian casualties, particularly in Gaza, are overwhelming, and the humanitarian crisis continues to deepen. While war should never be reduced to statistics, the stark numbers reveal the disproportionate suffering endured by Palestinians.
We also discuss the shifting global sentiment toward the Israel-Palestine conflict, driven in part by younger generations. Platforms like TikTok have played a significant role in bringing new perspectives to light, challenging the traditional narratives presented by mainstream media. As more people engage with the situation, particularly Gen Z and Millennials, there is a growing rejection of the long-standing pro-Israel propaganda, and calls for justice for Palestine are gaining strength.
In addition, we examine Australia’s contradictory stance on the two-state solution. While Australia voted against a UN resolution for Israel to withdraw from the occupied Golan Heights, it has also granted temporary protection visas to 860 Palestinians—a move that has sparked predictable backlash from right-wing politicians, who continue to stir fears about social cohesion.
5 Oct 2024
Episode 6. The second Nakba: International pressure and the lack of leadership (18 Nov 2023)
As the war in Gaza worsens, the Israeli military continues its relentless bombing, displacing more Palestinians and raising the civilian death toll beyond 10,000. The global outrage is growing, with increasing calls for Israel to cease its attacks and halt what many are calling a process of ethnic cleansing. Some now view this as a “second Nakba,” echoing the catastrophic events of 1948 when 700,000 Palestinians were forcibly expelled from their homes—a process some argue has never truly ended.
In this episode, we explore the rising international pressure on Israel to end the violence, the role of the global community in seeking a resolution, and the domestic challenges this presents, particularly in Australia. We discuss how Australian politicians such as Peter Dutton are exploiting social divisions for political gain, further inflaming tensions, while Prime Minister Anthony Albanese navigates a complex landscape of alliances and military ties with Israel.
We also highlight Dr. Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Territories, who spoke at the National Press Club, calling for global accountability in Gaza and presenting a stark contrast to the more restrained approach of the Australian government. As we look into Australia’s military relationship with Israel, we question whether Australian-made military hardware is being used in Gaza and explore the moral implications of these ties.
This episode examines how the continued violence in Gaza is reshaping international dialogue, the missteps of political leaders, and the urgent need for tough, principled leadership—something that has been sorely lacking in recent years.
5 Oct 2024
Episode 5. Gaza civilians under siege and the global outrage grows (11 Nov 2023)
As the Israeli military’s bombardment of Gaza intensifies, the world watches in outrage. With over 10,000 Palestinians killed, including more than 4,000 children, Gaza has become what UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres described as a “graveyard for children”. The relentless targeting of civilians and critical infrastructure has created a humanitarian crisis that demands urgent international intervention.
In this episode, we explore the mounting global pressure on Israel to cease its attacks, the growing disgust with the actions of the Israeli military, and the implications of continued inaction from the international community. From the Group of Seven meeting in Japan to emergency talks in the UK, the world’s leaders are beginning to react—but is it too little, too late?
We also discuss the disturbing narrative in some media that frames the devastation as a PR victory for Hamas, a perspective that obscures the reality of 10,000 civilian deaths. The disturbing images and stories emerging from Gaza are not propaganda—they are real, and they are heartbreaking.
In Australia, we saw political responses with a Senate walkout led by the Australian Greens, and a growing frustration within the Labor Party about Israel’s actions. Former leaders like Scott Morrison and Boris Johnson made ‘solidarity trips’ to Israel, but their visits raised questions about their motives. Former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull called out these visits, urging a more diplomatic approach.
As international action becomes inevitable, what are the next steps, and who will speak for the Palestinian people?
5 Oct 2024
Episode 4. The UN ceasefire: Australia’s abstention, US influence (4 Nov 2023)
This week, the United Nations held a vote calling for a ceasefire and humanitarian truce in Gaza, with 120 countries voting in favour of the resolution. While 14 countries voted against—including the United States—45 nations, including Australia, abstained. In this episode, we unpack why Australia abstained from this critical vote and the wider geopolitical implications of this decision.
We examine the motivations behind the abstention, the historical ties between Australia and the United States, and the influence of alliances like AUKUS on Australia’s foreign policy. Despite a non-binding resolution, it was an opportunity to take a stand, but Australia chose neutrality. We also explore the broader implications of such a vote, from peacekeeping to the potential establishment of a UN protectorate in Gaza, and what it means when global powers sit on the sidelines.
We discuss Australia’s history of supporting the US, its role in the creation of the United Nations, and the question of what Australia gains from its close alliance with America, especially considering its inability to secure a political win in the case of Julian Assange.
Finally, we touch on the polarized political landscape within Australia, where even nuanced discussions about the Israel–Palestine conflict are met with sharp backlash, and we ask: Is there any space left for balanced debate on this issue?
5 Oct 2024
Episode 3. The world’s silence on the ongoing massacre in Gaza (28 Oct 2023)
As the war in Palestine intensifies, the cycle of violence between Israel and Hamas continues with devastating consequences. With over 5,000 Palestinians already killed in Israeli bombings, the pattern of retaliation seems grimly predictable—smaller responses from Hamas, followed by further escalation from Israel. Despite condemnations from the United Nations and calls for restraint from the West, the violence persists, with Israel’s actions being widely condemned as illegal under international law.
In this episode, we explore the devastating toll this conflict takes on both the Palestinian and Israeli people. As Israel continues its military campaigns, we discuss the legal and moral implications of its actions, including the bombings, encroachments in the West Bank, and the ongoing humanitarian crisis.
We also confront the broader question: Who will speak on behalf of the Palestinian people? With much of the world standing by, seemingly indifferent to the suffering, we explore the failure of global leadership to hold Israel accountable and the need for a voice to advocate for justice and peace for the Palestinian people.
5 Oct 2024
Episode 2. The new war on Gaza: A historical context and recent escalation (17 Oct 2023)
The Israel–Palestine conflict continues to fuel violence and political tension, particularly highlighted by recent attacks by Hamas militants and the Israeli military’s retaliatory strikes. Over 1,200 Israelis and nearly 2,000 Palestinians have died in the latest escalation. Historically, this conflict often flares during political moments in Israel, with leaders like Netanyahu leveraging military action to bolster their political standing.
The humanitarian crisis, with significantly higher Palestinian casualties, underscores an imbalance rarely covered in Western media. Criticism of both Hamas and the Israeli government should be separated from generalizations about Palestinians or Israelis as a people. Australia’s foreign policy, echoing its stance on Israel’s “right to self-defense”, neglects the Palestinian experience. Calls for a fair resolution emphasize the need to address the root causes of the conflict, including Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories, and the international community’s role in finding a just and lasting peace.
5 Oct 2024
Episode 1. The start of a new Israeli–Palestinian cycle of violence (14 Oct 2023)
War has once again broken out between Israel and Palestine, following a brutal attack by Hamas militants, which left over 1,000 people dead. This massacre has been widely condemned across the western world, including in Australia. In response, Israel launched a series of bombings into Gaza, resulting in over 900 casualties. Despite the scale of this tragedy, the mainstream media has largely remained silent on these developments.
In this episode, we examine the cyclical nature of violence in the region, the political motivations behind these conflicts, and the imbalance of suffering on both sides. The link between Israel’s military actions and political events, such as elections, has been evident in past conflicts, from 2008 to 2021. With Benjamin Netanyahu pushing for a coalition government aimed at annexation, we ask: how much of this violence is politically driven?
We explore the imbalance of casualties, with over 5,500 Palestinians killed and 115,000 injured between 2008 and 2020, compared to 250 Israeli deaths. This staggering ratio highlights a critical issue that often goes unreported.
Finally, we discuss the global political response and the need for a deeper understanding of the conflict’s complexities to foster genuine solutions.
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