Where Warlocks Stay Up Late

About Where Warlocks Stay Up Late

Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

Publisher

wwsul

Category

history · technology · true crime

Language

en

Explicit

Yes

First episode

19 Dec 2024

Latest episode

27 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

13 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   27 Oct 2026

   Episode 11: Howard Holton

   Howard Holton shares an unscripted, deeply personal account of overcoming childhood poverty, abuse, and autism to become a successful technology executive and advocate for mental health awareness. Born in Akron, Ohio in 1976, Holton survived a tumultuous upbringing marked by parental instability, domestic violence, and homelessness. He discovered refuge in books, Dungeons & Dragons, and computers, teaching himself programming at age 11 and eventually becoming a prominent CEO. His journey reveals how intellectual curiosity, resilience, and community support enabled him to defy statistical odds. Holton discusses his early hacking explorations, his role in building wireless mesh networks for law enforcement in Los Angeles, and his evolution from technical innovator to leader focused on human connection. He emphasizes the critical importance of community, vulnerability, and reframing failure as education. Through his DEFCON Mental Health Hackers presentation and ongoing advocacy, Holton demonstrates how sharing authentic stories of struggle and survival can inspire others facing similar challenges to seek help and find belonging within supportive communities.Chapters:0:00:00 Cold Open — "Success Pays, Failure Educates"0:02:43 Origin Story: Akron, 1976, and Hobbit Day0:04:40 The Cult Deprogrammer, Tombstone, and the Goats0:10:06 Divorce at Five — "Keith Richards Without the Money"0:13:34 The Stepfather: Abuse, Alcohol, and Cocaine0:17:50 "You're Being Childish" — Cutting Off His Mother0:21:41 The Stepfather's Recovery, and His Suicide0:24:11 The Custody Rotation and the Converted Greyhound0:28:50 Escape Through Reading, and Autism Before It Had a Name0:32:24 April, Woodchuck Trailer Park, and the Babysitter0:38:24 "Why Are You Not in Jail? Why Are You Not Dead?"0:40:44 The Law Office and the Aryan Brotherhood0:47:50 Married at 18, and Learning to Fake Normal0:58:12 The First Computer, POKE, and Hero of the Classroom1:05:54 WordPerfect, Pleading Paper, and Plead Perfect at 111:10:04 BBSs, a $700 Phone Bill, and Learning to Phreak1:20:33 Choosing the Defender Side, and the Log That Caught an Insider1:28:58 The Anarchist Cookbook and the FBI1:31:50 Michael1:35:55 "Statistically, I Should Be…"1:37:32 First Real Job at 19, and Shootin' Newton1:46:40 Hitachi, and the Perfectionist Partner1:47:34 Mental Health Hackers at DEF CON1:53:18 Robert Frost, and the Tattoo on His Arm1:56:39 Advice: Success Pays, Failure Educates1:59:44 D&D, Gatekeeping, and the Satanic Panic2:05:15 Close

2. 

   3 Mar 2026

   Episode 10: Cris Thomas aka Space Rogue

   Cris Thomas, also known as Space Rogue, was a founding member of the legendary L0pht Heavy Industries — the hacker collective that famously told the U.S. Senate they could take down the internet in 30 minutes. He would go on to found the Hacker News Network, giving the underground a voice and warning the world how vulnerable it was. He told the full story in his award-winning book, Space Rogue.Chapters0:00 Intro0:40 Who is Space Rogue?2:58 Growing up in rural Maine4:20 Parents' divorce and its lasting impact5:44 Building flashlights from trash — early curiosity7:33 Childhood trauma and turning to computers11:38 Joining the Army and buying his first Mac14:47 Discovering BBSs and the modem world21:10 Origin of the "Space Rogue" handle23:19 Working as a security guard at Lotus24:34 Dialing into BBSs from the Lotus overnight shift32:27 The Works, 2600 meetings, and meeting the crew36:13 What hacker meetups were actually like40:28 Working at CompUSA with future L0pht members42:59 CDC vs L0pht — setting the record straight46:26 How the L0pht actually formed53:37 The MIT flea market57:10 Paranoia about law enforcement and the hacker crackdowns1:01:54 Finding vulnerabilities and responsible disclosure struggles1:06:16 L0pht v1 to v2 — moving to Watertown and membership changes1:13:47 Fondest L0pht memories1:16:25 Realizing L0pht was famous at Beyond Hope1:19:02 L0phtCrack, t-shirts, and turning the hobby into a business1:23:06 The birth of Hacker News Network1:28:36 Breaking stories and becoming the "Voice of Reason"1:31:01 Legion of Underground declares cyber war1:41:59 The Senate testimony — how it came about1:44:42 Suits, a rented van, and the road trip to DC1:49:46 Reflecting on the testimony's real impact1:53:55 "Security is here, it's just unevenly distributed"1:54:27 The security boom and the road to At Stake2:00:12 The At Stake deal — "garage band or mega band?"2:05:24 Getting fired from At Stake — losing his identity2:13:13 The lost decade — depression and rebuilding2:15:24 Tan's call that changed everything — HNN goes video2:22:11 Writing the book — motivation, self-publishing, and healing2:27:40 Legacy and impact2:29:42 Closing

3. 

   14 Jan 2026

   Episode 9: Rob Knake

   Rob Knake's fingerprints are all over modern cyber policy. As White House Director for Cybersecurity Policy, he helped craft the nation’s most significant cybersecurity strategy in nearly two decades and guided the response to major national cyber incidents. He’s advised presidents, shaped global cyber norms, co-authored two influential books on cyber conflict, and served as a senior fellow at Harvard and the Council on Foreign Relations.Chapters:00:00 - Intro03:15 - Growing Up with New Deal Democrats06:30 - "To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required."10:45 - Choosing Public Service Over Corporate Law14:20 - Education at Connecticut College18:30 - Democracy, Capitalism & Fukuyama's End of History22:10 - Coast Guard Internship & Steve Flynn's Influence27:45 - Richard Clarke & Early Cyber Policy Work32:20 - The Emergence of Cyber as a National Security Threat36:40 - From Good Harbor Consulting to Government Service40:15 - Working on Counterterrorism at DHS44:30 - The Bin Laden Raid Era & Shifting to Cyber48:20 - Joining the Obama White House NSC52:45 - Life as an NSC Staffer - Long Hours & Mission56:30 - Stuxnet & Understanding Real-World Cyber Threats01:00:15 - The Failed 2011 Cybersecurity Legislation01:04:40 - Executive Order 13636 & The NIST Framework01:09:20 - Operation Aurora & Chinese IP Theft01:13:45 - Nudges vs Shoves - Voluntary vs Mandatory Security01:18:30 - The Need for Cybersecurity Regulation01:22:50 - Who Should Regulate & How to Regulate01:27:10 - Software Liability & Outcome-Based Security01:32:25 - The SolarWinds/Sunburst Attack Explained01:37:40 - Private Equity's Impact on Cybersecurity01:41:15 - The Failure of Collective Defense01:45:30 - Government vs Private Sector Responsibility01:52:20 - Why Government Can't Take Over Cyber Defense01:58:45 - The Rise of Ransomware as a Threat02:03:30 - Should We Ban Ransomware Payments?02:08:15 - Corporate Hack-Back Operations02:11:40 - Holding Nation-States Accountable for Ransomware02:16:25 - Deterrence vs Resilience in Cyber Policy02:22:10 - Are We Winning in Cybersecurity?02:26:30 - AI's Impact on Cybersecurity02:29:45 - Trump Administration & Potential Regulatory Changes02:33:20 - The Public Sector Pay Gap Problem02:38:50 - Current Work in the Private Sector02:42:15 - Bridging the Hacker-Policy Divide02:45:30 - Closing Thoughts

4. 

   7 Oct 2025

   Episode 8: Mohammed Bagha aka "MB"

   Mohammed Bagha—who keeps his hacker handles anonymous and goes simply by ‘MB’—was one of the most feared hackers of the 1990s. With a larger-than-life online persona and the skills to back it up, he infiltrated corporate systems, telecom networks, and even the machines of other well-known hackers. He exposed their flaws, mocked their code, and dropped their secrets in public forums. But narrow misses with the law soon changed his path, and like many from that era, he turned his talents to defense—helping global companies strengthen their security and build lasting strategies.

5. 

   22 Aug 2025

   Episode 7: David Jacoby aka pewp

   David Jacoby (aka “pewp”) is a pioneering Swedish hacker with over 30 years of influence in cybersecurity and hacker culture. From the early days of BBS systems, war dialing, and underground groups like Hack.se to connections with the Pirate Bay founders and the infamous CIA website hack, his journey shaped how hacking is viewed worldwide. He has been a technical advisor for the Millennium Trilogy (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo), starred in mainstream TV series like “Hacked”, founded Unreached AB, and now drives innovation as Chief Strategy Officer at Syndis in Iceland. Known for blending technical brilliance with cultural impact, Jacoby’s career reflects the evolution of hacking from underground curiosity to a force that redefined modern cybersecurity.

6. 

   3 Aug 2025

   Episode 6: Jason Snitker aka Parmaster

   Before he taught murderers how to play Dungeons & Dragons in Rikers, Jason Snitker, aka Parmaster, was one of the most prolific hackers on the planet. Trading exploits with groups across four continents, slipping into Citibank, and landing in Underground, the book co-written by Julian Assange before vanishing from the Secret Service for over two years.---------Chapters:00:00 Intro 01:05 Parmaster’s Origin Story 04:40 First Exposure to Computing 08:15 Learning Through Hacking 12:30 Meeting the Jedi Hackers 17:20 Mentorship from Gary Kildall 22:10 Early Hacker Communities 28:00 Hacking Techniques: Pad-to-Pad Exploit 34:45 Citibank Debit Card Breach 41:00 TRW and Killer Satellite Programs 47:25 Chaos, Soviets, and Hacker Wars 53:15 Life on the Run 01:01:00 Near Misses with the Secret Service 01:09:30 Arrest in New York 01:15:20 The Tombs and Rikers Island 01:21:45 Trial and Technicality 01:27:50 Transition to Cybersecurity Career 01:33:30 Reflections on Legacy 01:36:10 Closing _______

7. 

   16 Jul 2025

   Episode 5: Terry Rankhorn Part 2

   From being the first to infiltrate hacking groups to going undercover in an Al Qaeda cell, Terry Rankhorn’s career shaped some of the FBI’s most critical moments in modern history. As a Supervisory Special Agent, he led covert entry teams across cyber, physical, and electronic access on some of the government’s most classified missions.In this episode, part 2 of a two-part episode, Terry discusses the complexities of navigating the hacker community and the impact of undercover operations on trust within that community. This conversation delves into the experiences of an undercover agent who transitioned from investigating cybercrime to infiltrating Al-Qaeda operations. Terry also discusses the challenges and psychological aspects of undercover work, the importance of mentorship, and the evolution of cybercrime from curiosity-driven hacking to organized scams.______________________________Chapters:00:00 The Evolution of Cybercrime and Undercover Operations03:13 Navigating the FBI: From Training to Field Assignments06:03 The Landscape of Domestic Terrorism in the 90s08:53 Transitioning to Cybercrime: The Rise of Computer Intrusions12:08 Building a Career in Cybercrime Investigations15:01 The Undercover Experience: Infiltrating Hacker Groups17:52 The Challenges of Attribution in Cybercrime21:12 The First Major Cybercrime Case: A Learning Experience23:50 The MagicFX Case: Legal Precedents in Cybercrime27:13 The Aftermath of Undercover Operations: Trust Issues in the Hacker Community01:03:59 The Prolific Hacker and His Malicious Streak01:05:36 Transitioning to Al-Qaeda Investigations01:07:11 Undercover Operations: Peeling the Onion01:09:00 The Stress of Undercover Work01:11:18 Building Trust in Dangerous Environments01:12:29 Psychological Profiles and Undercover Success01:14:07 Mentorship and Learning the Art of Undercover01:16:33 The Complexity of Undercover Operations01:18:27 Conversion to Islam: A Strategic Move01:20:10 The Beauty and Perversion of Religion01:22:30 The Impact of the Al-Qaeda Operation01:23:06 Post-Al-Qaeda Operations and Safety Moves01:25:02 The Tactical Operations Center01:29:39 Training for Modern Undercover Operations01:32:22 Operational Amnesia in the FBI01:35:08 The Black Bag Program: Breaking In01:39:09 Prioritizing Major Cases01:42:29 The Thrill of Covert Operations01:43:11 Transitioning to Supervisory Roles01:49:12 Leaving the Bureau: A Personal Decision01:50:46 Consulting and New Ventures01:53:04 Virtual Safe House: A Community Initiative01:56:44 The Evolution of Cybercrime01:58:11 The Motivation Behind Sharing Experiences_____________________________

8. 

   7 Jul 2025

   Episode 5: Terry Rankhorn Part 1

   From being the first to infiltrate hacking groups to going undercover in an Al Qaeda cell, Terry Rankhorn’s career shaped some of the FBI’s most critical moments in modern history. As a Supervisory Special Agent, he led covert entry teams across cyber, physical, and electronic access on some of the government’s most classified missions._____________________________________________________Chapters:00:00:00 Intro, Undercover Ops & High-Stakes Hacking 00:06:00 From Rural Tennessee to FBI Legend 00:12:00 Tales from a Misfit Childhood 00:18:00 Mischief, Pranks, and Ethical Awakening 00:24:00 Why He Chose the Navy 00:30:00 Boot Camp Culture Shock & Mental Reset 00:36:00 Submarine School and Life Underwater 00:42:00 USS Honolulu: Elite Culture & Leadership 00:48:00 Commander's Intent & Periscope Pride 00:54:00 Deployments, Sacrifices & Camaraderie 01:00:00 Transition to Civilian Life & Reverse Engineering 01:06:00 Rediscovering the FBI Dream 01:12:00 FBI Application, Testing & Getting In 01:18:00 New Agent Training: Pain, Tests & Brotherhood 01:24:00 Injuries, Graduation & Swearing In 01:30:00 Meeting Amanda & Shared Military Background 01:36:00 Military Veterans in the FBI Today 01:42:00 Quantico's Legacy & FBI Academy History 01:48:00 Culture Clash in Training Styles 01:54:00 Reflections on Achievement & Fulfillment________________________________________________________

9. 

   8 Apr 2025

   Episode 4: Eduart Steiner aka Skyper

   The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked ItSkyper, aka Eduart Steiner (not his real name), was the editor of Phrack Magazine between 2001 - 2006 (#57-#63), is a member of TESO and THC, and runs Segfault.net: free disposable root shells to fellow ‘activists.--------------------Chapters00:00 Cold Open2:42 A Cold War Household10:45 No Toy Survives Curiosity14:57 A Whole New World20:18 One Box, Two Box, Red Box, Blue Box29:38 Point of View37:13 EFnet-ville42:01 TESO45:54 The OpenSSH Exploit53:16 Criminals vs Criminals56:21 Hacker Consortium01:00:36 Script Kiddie Wars01:03:55 THC & Phrack01:08:51 Cannibalism01:11:54 Scanning the Internet01:15:54 From Nothing to Something01:18:47 Cracking A/5101:22:33 Detained at Heathrow Airport01:28:17 IT Security, Revisited--------------------Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.#hacking #cybersecurity

10. 

    21 Mar 2025

    Episode 3: Joe Grand aka Kingpin

    The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked ItKingpin, aka Joe Grand, was the youngest member of the world's most well-known benevolent hacker group (L0pht Heavy Industries) who testified before the United States Congress, changed the hardware hacking landscape, brought electronics to #badgelife, and achieved mainstream popularity on national television.--------------------Chapters 0:00 Intro02:41 Kingpin's Origin Story10:30 George Happy W. Bush15:57 Spring Break Woes at Dr. Death's26:25 Turning the Corner...31:43 L0pht Heavy Industries46:58 L0pht Version 259:43 The United States Senate Testimony01:15:25 atstake and Corporate America01:24:38 Grand Idea Studio01:28:22 Training and Evangelism01:34:26 DefCon Badges01:39:52 Prototype This!01:46:12 Trezor Wallet Hacking01:52:28 Cold Wallet01:56:40 Neurodiversity and Mental Health--------------------Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.#hacking #cybersecurity

11. 

    19 Feb 2025

    Episode 2: Ralph Logan aka sangfroid

    The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked Itsangfroid, aka Ralph Logan, stumbled across the cDc, crossed paths with L0pht Industries, joined the emerging w00w00 group, and helped jockey The Honeynet Project before springboarding into a formidable cybersecurity career.--------------------Chapters0:00 Cold Open02:45 Texas Roots07:12 Critical Care Burn Out13:55 cDc on BBS16:50 The Command & Conquer Job21:30 260024:00 Shell Offshore28:00 L0pht Introductions31:59 Setting the Career Path36:00 Boston40:30 w00w0047:00 Guardent, @stake, and Foundstone56:30 The Business of Cybersecurity01:03:05 Honeynet Project01:06:45 Entrepreneurship01:11:00 [redacted]01:13:50 The Fake Music Festival01:20:30 Warlocks Love--------------------Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

12. 

    31 Jan 2025

    Episode 1: Matt Harrigan aka Digital Jesus

    The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked ItThe long-awaited debut of WWSUL Episode 1 is live. In this episode, we interview Digital Jesus , a member of Phonemasters, a hacking group hunted by the FBI across Texas, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado, California, Oregon, New York, Florida, Canada, Switzerland, and Italy.-----------------Chapters:0:00 Intro02:48 Matt's Beginnings10:47 The First Computer18:00 Discovering Internet Relay Chat (IRC)27:21 The First Disclosure31:54 Early Days of Phonemasters36:56 Pre-releasing CallerID42:46 FBI vs Phonemasters58:46 Phone Taps01:02:09 Consulting01:06:23 MaxVision01:16:52 Western Integrated Networks01:21:16 Growing the Family01:24:03 Owning Up to Mistakes--------------------Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

13. 

    19 Dec 2024

    The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked It

    Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

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Guest appearances

Books guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.