Whiteness at Work

About Whiteness at Work

A show about the concept of whiteness and how it works. Listen in to notice, reimagine and question the role of whiteness. You will hear collective voices to share in the anti-racism quest to expose and dismantle the dominance of whiteness in our families, institutions and everyday lives.

Publisher

Dr. Claire Stewart-Hall

Category

education

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

27 Nov 2024

Latest episode

27 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

20 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   27 Oct 2026

   Outcomes, Experiences and Solidarity: What Whiteness Hates, with Paul Gorski (Part 2)

   What does whiteness hate? Paul Gorski's answer might surprise you. In the second part of my conversation with Paul Gorski, founder of the Equity Literacy Institute, we turn our attention to what happens inside schools, why good intentions aren't enough, and how we can move beyond performative equity towards meaningful structural change. We discuss how quickly the lens shifts back onto families rather than institutions, and why rising test scores tell us nothing about racism in a school. Paul explains why we need to look at both outcomes and experiences, because a student can achieve top grades and still be marginalised, and why genuinely trauma-informed education starts by asking how people are being harmed in schools themselves. We also reflect on the cycles Paul has seen over his career, as structural approaches gain ground and then give way to "fluffier" versions, the pressure created by accountability systems like Ofsted, and Paul's role as series editor for a Routledge book series that gives a platform to new voices in equity work. Finally, Paul shares why he believes white supremacy hates solidarity, and why community care, preparation and a willingness to disagree without tearing each other down matter so much in anti-racist work. In this episode: Moving the lens from families to institutions Why test scores don't measure racism Outcomes versus experiences in schools Trauma, racism and what "trauma-informed" should really mean Recurring patterns in equity work Solidarity, community care and the role of white anti-racists Find out more about Paul's work at equityliteracy.org Interested in exploring these ideas further? The Divest Whiteness UK programmes, developer and advanced, begin in January. Find out more at equitablevision.com

2. 

   20 Oct 2026

   Beyond Celebrating Diversity: Structural Racism and Deficit Ideology, with Paul Gorski (Part 1)

   Why does so much of what we call equity work leave the systems producing inequality completely untouched? In the first of a two-part conversation, I'm joined by Paul Gorski, founder of the Equity Literacy Institute and EdChange. Paul has spent more than 25 years supporting educators and organisations across the United States and internationally to strengthen their equity efforts, and his clear, accessible writing has deeply influenced my own work. We begin by troubling the term whiteness itself, and why Paul often prefers to talk directly about white supremacy and structural racism. Paul shares how he came to this work, and why he believes we should start by imagining what an anti-racist institution looks like, rather than beginning with individual bias reflection and hoping change follows. We also explore the rise of "high optics, low impact" equity work, the challenge of liberal whiteness and the saviour complex, and why deficit ideology, from grit to growth mindset, remains one of the biggest barriers to racial equity in schools. As Paul puts it, so often we try to fix the students rather than fixing the conditions that deny them opportunity. In this episode: Why "whiteness" can be a slippery term, and what it can obscure Starting with institutional change, not individual awareness High optics, low impact: performative equity and political backlash Liberal whiteness, rescue narratives and the saviour complex Deficit ideology, grit and resilience Find out more about Paul's work at equityliteracy.org Interested in exploring these ideas further? The Divest Whiteness UK programmes, developer and advanced, begin in January. Find out more at equitablevision.com

3. 

   24 Aug 2026

   What Does Whiteness Hate? Dr Kathy Obear on Accountability, Discomfort and Action (Part 2)

   In Part Two of my conversation with Dr Kathy Obear, we move from understanding whiteness to exploring what it actually means to take responsibility, build accountability and interrupt racism in practice. We begin with white accountability spaces. What happens when white people are given somewhere to examine racism honestly? How do we work with shame, defensiveness, tears and discomfort without allowing those responses to recentre whiteness? And what happens when people leave those spaces and return to organisations where speaking up may carry consequences? Kathy draws on decades of facilitation and organisational change work to explore how white people can develop the awareness, skills and relationships needed to recognise racism, interrupt harmful dynamics and act differently. Importantly, this isn't about becoming the "best white person in the room". Kathy challenges the idea of the facilitator as the expert who has somehow solved racism. Instead, we discuss the power of honesty, vulnerability, community and being willing to recognise the racism we have been socialised into. Together, we discuss: White accountability groups and what makes them effective Shame, defensiveness and white women's tears Why accountability doesn't have to mean humiliation Moving from individual understandings of racism towards group and organisational analysis How white people can recognise their own participation in racist dynamics Facilitation without positioning ourselves as the expert Building community as part of anti-racist practice Speaking up when there may be organisational consequences Working differently in all-white and racially mixed spaces Avoiding reliance on people of colour to educate white people about racism Triggers, hot buttons and emotional responses Entitlement, power and unmet needs Practical ways of interrupting inequitable dynamics Repairing harm and taking responsibility for impact Why organising, connection and truth-telling matter Kathy also talks candidly about her own mistakes and learning, including moments when entitlement, competitiveness and racism have shown up in her own thinking. We explore how seemingly small interventions can begin to interrupt organisational patterns: asking a question, slowing a meeting down, noticing whose voice has been missed, examining who benefits from a decision, or simply being willing to name what others would prefer to leave unspoken. And we finish with the question I ask every guest: What does whiteness hate? For Kathy, the answer takes us towards connection, community, truth-telling, organising, speaking up and the willingness to hold a mirror to what is actually happening.

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Spotify

5.0 / 5

2 ratings

Podcast Authority Score: 22 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

44

Social presence

0

YouTube

0

Engagement

0