An insider guide to politics and government in Wales. The fifth floor is the where Ministers in the Welsh government are based. For 5 years Lee Waters had an office on Ty Hywel’s fifth floor and in this podcast explores what it’s like to be at the heart of Welsh politics.
Lee Waters leads Hannah White, James Mitchell, Mark Drakeford, and Kirsty Williams in a live panel discussion reflecting on key themes explored throughout the series.
9 Mar 2025
BONUS - Yes, Minister
BONUS EPISODE
The themes of the podcast were picked up by members of the Senedd’s Public Accounts Committee and put to the Permanent Secretary of the Welsh Government to respond.
Here’s the unfiltered exchange.
6 Mar 2025
7 - Sausages
They say that “Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made”.
This messy process is one of headaches Welsh Government Ministers face on the Fifth Floor of Ty Hywel . And this episode exposes it to public scrutiny for the first time.
Lee Waters speaks with fellow former Ministers, advisers, and civil servants to survey the main frustrations faced by those working inside the Welsh Government in getting things done.
The documentary podcast series has previously considered the range of Ministerial responsibilities, the pace of the civil service in delivering change, the relationship with local government, the weakness of scrutiny, and the management of political pressures.
The full set of interviews drawn on by this series have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf
17 Feb 2025
6 - Politics
Welsh Government Ministers only have an office on The Fifth Floor with the support of their backbench colleagues on the second floor, and with enough votes in the finely balanced Senedd.
This episode looks at the art and science of politics that Ministers need to confront to get things done.
Former Government Minister Lee Waters talks to former colleagues about the pressures faced inside Government.
The full set of interviews drawn on by this series have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf
4 Feb 2025
5 - Friction
The Welsh Government sets the policies and spends the money, and the Senedd passes the laws. But it's local government that delivers much of the public services.
In this episode of the Fifth Floor former Minister Lee Waters discusses with Welsh Government insiders how the relationship with Councils works - and sometimes doesn't work.
The full set of interviews drawn on by this series have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf
26 Jan 2025
4 - Scrutiny
How are Ministers kept on their toes? What are the main sources of scrutiny of Government and how effective are they? This episode considers the theory and practice of the pressure points on decision makers.
Former Minister Lee Waters takes into the fifth floor of the building where the decisions happen.
The full set of interviews have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf
15 Dec 2024
3 - Dysfunction (The Civil Service - part two)
This is the second part of a look at the Welsh Government civil service, and why Ministers are frustrated at the pace of change.
Speaking to former civil servants, Special Advisers and Ministers the episodes explores the culture and structures that have developed which make it harder to get things done.
The episode is produced, written and presented by former Welsh Government Minister Lee Waters.
This episode is dedicated to the memory of Nick Powell.
The full set of interviews have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf
8 Dec 2024
2 - Constraints (The Civil Service - part one)
This episode explores the role of the civil service, and why Ministers are often frustrated by the pace of change.
This is a two-part episode focusing on the impact of the constraints in the size of the Welsh Government, and the culture that has developed around it
Former Minister Lee Waters takes is onto the fifth floor of the building where the decisions happen.
The full set of interviews have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf
23 Nov 2024
1 - Pressure
Episode 1 - The pressure
Former Welsh Government Minister Lee Waters talks to Ministers and their advisers about the breadth of responsibilities and the volume of workloads faced by members of the Welsh Government on the Fifth Floor.
Welsh Government insiders reveal the inner-workings of the dynamics of political life in Wales.
The full set of interviews have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf
20 Nov 2024
The Fifth Floor - Taster episode
What goes on at the heart of the Welsh Government? Come behind the doors of the fifth floor of Ty Hywel and discover the pressures facing Ministers, advisers and civil servants.
Former Minister Lee Waters talks to ten people he worked alongside for candid conversations about how Government in Wales works.
The full set of interviews have been published by Cardiff University :
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-Digital-Copy.pdf
Who has been a guest on Y Pumed Llawr - The Fifth Floor
Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.
Hannah White
James Mitchell
Mark Drakeford
Kirsty Williams
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
Apple Podcasts (US)
5.0 / 5
1 ratings
Spotify
4.8 / 5
32 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 28 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
37
Social presence
0
YouTube
0
Engagement
51
Contact Y Pumed Llawr - The Fifth Floor
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