自然膨胀是一档以好奇心为出发点，客观态度为基础的知识性播客。每期我们会和一个嘉宾深入探讨一个有趣的话题。放空大脑，获得新知。
Podcast Overview
自然膨胀是一档以好奇心为出发点，客观态度为基础的知识性播客。每期我们会和一个嘉宾深入探讨一个有趣的话题。放空大脑，获得新知。
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Publishing Since
4/17/2021
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Recent Episodes
October 30, 2024
自然膨胀 15 | 从萨尔瓦多，到塞拉利昂，再到Network State
<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>这是自然膨胀的第</span>15<span>期节目。我们请到了</span><span>Sign</span><span>的创始人</span><span>闫欣和我聊了他在萨尔瓦多的经历，和塞拉利昂的合作，以及对于</span>net<span>work states</span><span>的思考。对绝大多数国人来说，国家是一个植根于基因中不言自明的基础身份认同。但在中华文化以外，民族国家在全球的大规模兴起和成熟也只是近一百多年的现象。如果从产品经理的角度来看待国家这个产品，它无疑是有很多升级迭代的可能性。成熟如</span><span>BVI, </span><span>开曼群岛这类披着国家外衣的</span><span>professional service provider</span><span>，新兴如</span><span>the network state</span><span>这样植根于虚拟领土的社会实验，都是值得了解，观察，讨论的对象。另一层面，资本主义的深入发展，造就了若干富可敌国的</span><span>mega enterprises</span><span>，这些组织的进一步发展，是否也会对现有的全球政治格局产生挑战，这都在逐渐成为桌面上的议题。收听愉快，</span><span>Enjoy :)</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">- wtt</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><u>Guest</u></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>Xin Yan, Sign CEO。 Sign曾从红杉资本美印中三家等机构募资1400万美金，专注于开发下一代全球互通的软件。目前，Sign的多个产品已经成为行业第一，为4000万用户分发过代币，为多个国家提供身份登记系统。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><u>Highlights</u></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>02:31 – </span><span>尽管萨尔瓦多将比特币定为法定货币，但在老百姓中的普及率还是较低</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>07:12 – </span><span>比特币储备更多是萨尔瓦多政府应对美元超发的宏观对冲</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>11:02 – Sign Protocol</span><span>本质上是对任何一件事情的链上</span><span>attestation</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>13:36 – Sign</span><span>帮助塞拉利昂移民局构建了链上移民身份认证系统</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>20:55 – </span><span>网络国家的出现，并非基于民族认定而是价值观认定</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>25:09 – </span><span>推荐阅读</span><span><the sovereign individual></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>34:29 – longevity (</span><span>长生不老</span><span>)</span><span>也是网络国家参与者的一个重要议题</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>37:52 – </span><span>洪都拉斯的</span><span>Prospera</span><span>岛曾是一个很先锋的尝试</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>41:16 – </span><span>之所以还没有大资本家成功建国，说明资本主义还不够深入</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>46:02 – </span><span>逆全球化的保守主义最终会被马太效应极强的新科技消解掉</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><u>音乐</u></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">Rebel<span> of the Underground</span><span>by 2PAC</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>-END-</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>你可以在这里找到我们：</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>微信公众号：自然膨胀</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>各大播客平台搜索“自然膨胀”订阅收听</span><span>:</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>小宇宙</span><span>(</span><span>推荐</span><span>) | </span><span>喜马拉雅</span><span> | </span><span>网易云音乐</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>Apple podcast | Spotify| Pocketcast …</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>联系方式：</span><span>nat.expansion@gmail.com</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>收听愉快</span><span> :)</span></p>
August 18, 2024
自然膨胀 14 | 直达目的：与SEEDAO的对谈
<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>这是自然膨胀的第</span>14<span>期节目。我们请到了</span>SEEDAO<span>发起人唐晗和我聊了聊她发起</span><span>SEEDAO</span><span>的经历以及她对于</span><span>DAO</span><span>组织形态的看法</span><span>。这期播客录制于近一年前，当时她正与</span><span>白鱼，</span><span>SEEDAO</span><span>的另一位发起人和几个被共同目标吸引来的朋友，筹备一家开设于成都的书店。几周前，我在一个阳光明媚的下午去拜访了</span><span>[</span><span>白读书店</span><span>]</span><span>，</span> <span>开在成都的居民区，一位鸟类摄影师在做分享会。我想，一期一会。</span></p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>DAO</span><span>也许还是一个不断被实践者定义，在螺旋上升中的组织形态。但我很喜欢她在对话中提出的一个观点：直达目的。我们的生活，也许只需要“直达目的”。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">- wtt</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><u>Guest</u></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>唐晗，</span><span>The SEEDAO</span><span>发起人。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><u>Highlights</u></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">04:26 - <span>新兴的财富阶层，必然需要有属于自己的文化符号诞生</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">05<span>:50 - </span><span>一个</span><span> NFT </span><span>项目的估值其实等于一个社区的估值的，</span><span>NFT</span><span>，是一种社区身份认同的表征</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>18:59 – </span><span>人的底层需求，是需要连接，需要共同体的存在。在这个意义上，钱是失效的</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>20:30 – </span><span>对于“数字城邦“的功能要求有三点：连接，促进个人的合作和涌现，提供公共生活</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>32:42 – </span><span>在相当长的时间里，</span><span>DAO</span><span>和公司制会共存，甚至互补</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>34:09 – </span><span>独裁是高效，但前提是独裁者是“哲人王”</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>38:31 – DAO</span><span>和松散的群组的本质区别在于是否有治理上的所有权，经济上的所有权，以及社交关系的所有权</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>44:01 – </span><span>对数字游民生活的定义</span><span>- </span><span>共在，涌现和逍遥</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>52:18 – DAO</span><span>的存在形态最终是由公司制无法提供答案的</span><span>30%</span><span>的人群定义的</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>01:02:29 – </span><span>做一个书店，直达目的。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>1:11:43 – </span><span>唐晗的诗</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><u>音乐</u></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>山头</span><span>Utopia</span><span>by </span><span>无妄合作社</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>-END-</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>你可以在这里找到我们：</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>微信公众号：自然膨胀</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>各大播客平台搜索“自然膨胀”订阅收听</span><span>:</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>小宇宙</span><span>(</span><span>推荐</span><span>) | </span><span>喜马拉雅</span><span> | </span><span>网易云音乐</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>Apple podcast | Spotify| Pocketcast …</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>联系方式：</span><span>nat.expansion@gmail.com</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>收听愉快</span><span> :)</span></p>
August 28, 2023
自然膨胀13 | 让一部分艺术家先AIGC起来
<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>这是自然膨胀的第</span>13<span>期节目。我们请到了青年艺术家力翰和我聊了聊</span><span>AI</span><span>图像生成</span><span>对艺术家的冲击及他在日常创作中对AI的运用。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>在大语言模型横空出世的同时，以</span><span>Stable Diffusion</span><span>为代表的</span><span>AI</span><span>图像生成技术也在多年的积累和发展下日趋成熟，完全具备了商业化的能力。相信很多人前段时间都为妙鸭相机付过9.9，力翰本人也曾被</span><span>Stable Diffusion</span><span>的强大能力震惊到“绝望”（原话）。力翰的感受绝不是孤例，事实上，我认为大量平面设计师岗位在未来的几年将会被</span><span>AI</span><span>完全替代。就连曾经被坚信为人类独有的艺术创造力，似乎也在缓慢流向</span><span>AI</span><span>。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>上帝“死了”之后，似乎人类也“命不久矣”，后</span><span>AI</span><span>时代急需一个新的精神秩序，来让人类安身立命。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">- wtt</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><u>Guest</u></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>任力翰，青年画家，</span><span>1993</span><span>年生于中国陕西，中央美术学院博士生。曾获中央美术学院毕业创作一等奖。他擅长运用细腻的工笔画来塑造禅宗中理想化的意象</span><span> ; </span><span>他的作品往往有一种神秘、飘渺的感觉。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><u>Highlights</u></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:03:39 – <span>经过一段时间的尝试后，</span><span>Stable Diffusion</span><span>成为力翰的创作辅助工具</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:10:14 – <span>AI</span><span>生成的作品让拥有</span><span>10</span><span>余年绘画经验的力翰真假难分，让他感到绝望</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:16:22 – <span>人在创作过程中的个人体验是</span><span>AI</span><span>取代不了的，就像</span><span>AI</span><span>无法代替你吃饭一样</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:19:33 – <span>文无第一，正是因为每个人的表达都是独一无二的宝贵感受</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:21:50 – S<span>table Diffusion</span><span>大幅提高了力翰的创作效率</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:26:18 – <span>很多创作者还是对</span><span>AIGC</span><span>持不置可否甚至不屑一顾的态度</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:28:01 – <span>现在业界已经开始用</span><span>AI</span><span>来负责设计创作流程了</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:29:38 – <span>至于艺术，</span><span>AI</span><span>在“术”的层面完全胜任，但在“艺”的层面上，仍然由人类的意志来主导</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:36:32 – AI<span>会让大部分的创作者失去独立的创作意志</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">00:40:03 – AI<span>会辅助人口衰减国家达到人口和生产力的再稳定</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><u>音乐</u></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>听风</span><span>by </span><span>超级市场</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>-END-</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>你可以在这里找到我们：</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>微信公众号：自然膨胀</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>各大播客平台搜索“自然膨胀”订阅收听</span><span>:</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>小宇宙</span><span>(</span><span>推荐</span><span>) | </span><span>喜马拉雅</span><span> | </span><span>网易云音乐</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>Apple podcast | Spotify| Pocketcast …</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>联系方式：</span><span>nat.expansion@gmail.com</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>收听愉快</span><span> :)</span></p><br>
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