1 Jul 2026
"The 1960's Underground" with Alice Embree and Thorne Dreyer
"The 1960's Underground" with Alice Embree and Thorne Dreyer
"And so to me, one of the stories is to look back at that time and go, "Look, there was a lot of crossover that younger people don't know about," right? And when I tell people about it, they're like, "Oh, I had no idea." … These narratives tend to live in textbooks and not come from people's lives, it seems like sometimes… if you pay attention to how people experience the times they lived through, it looks much different than the stories that get told much later on." (Alice Embree)
In this episode, co-hosts Dr. Jason Mellard and Eddie Wilson, sit down with two of Austin's most enduring activist voices: Thorne Dreyer and Alice Embree, co-founders of The Rag, the sixth underground newspaper in the United States and one of the longest-running, publishing 377 issues from 1966 to 1977. Together they trace the arc of Austin's radical counterculture, from the origins of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) to the birth of a national movement.
Content Warning: adult themes
Content created during the global pandemic, in the room, and on Zoom.
Chapters:
01:00 - Thorne's background: Houston upbringing, artistic family, acting in New York, arriving in Austin
02:10 - Alice's background: growing up in Austin during Jim Crow; Austin's civil rights battles on campus with segregated dorms, segregated football, and the fight to change both
02:55 - Kennedy assassination as a radicalizing moment; Lyndon Johnson's daughter in a segregated dorm; UT's delay tactics
04:10 - Frank Erwin and the Board of Regents; Thorne placed on disciplinary probation in 1967
04:25 - The founding of The Rag (October 1966); John Economidy's right-wing takeover of The Daily Texan
05:45 - "SDS": Students for a Democratic Society's trip to Haight & Ashbury pre-Summer of Love; overlap between Rag staff and SDS
06:15 - The Rag's 11-year run; 377 issues available on JSTOR via Independent Voices
07:33 - Reading of Thorne's October 1966 letter announcing The Rag to the underground press
12:05 - "Hippies and politicos merge": Austin's unusual counterculture-political fusion explained
13:25 - The "Prairie Power" movement inside SDS and why Austin's chapter stood apart from its East Coast counterparts
14:40 - Drugs: Austin as a national hub for peyote distribution; the 1963 Playboy "Assassination Issue" on psychedelics
16:45 - Jim Franklin stirring the peyote kettle outside Lockhart; the sheriff encounter
17:32 - Peyote Orange Juliuses; Dave Richards and Sam Houston Clinton exploit the legislative misspelling
19:00 - Surveillance of New Left activists and hippies; solidarity across counterculture and politics
19:25 - Texas SDS members standing out at national conferences; hostile state environment breeding unity
20:30 - Eddie Wilson and Shiva's Headband; carrying the band's pot to an East Texas benefit
21:40 - Shiva's Headband and the Conqueroo as politically active bands; doing benefits constantly
22:22 - The Armadillo and Vietnam Veterans Against the War; beer garden fundraisers
23:03 - United Farm Workers march; Economy Furniture strike; November 1972 Armadillo benefit with Greasy Wheels, Steve Fromholz, Willie Nelson, Teatro Chicano
25:25 - Eddie on the Armadillo as "a giant Petri dish"; bikers, ballet, grandmothers
25:45 - Stanley Hall run off from Austin Ballet Theater for being gay; moves dance classes to the Armadillo
26:25 - The UT folk singing club as a gateway to campus political culture; Janis Joplin performed there
27:00 - Austin's export to San Francisco: Chet Helms, the Avalon, Janis, 13th Floor Elevators, Doug Sahm, Rip-Off Press, San Francisco Oracle
29:50 - The YMCA building as nerve center: two locations, Frank Wright, Chris Cunningham as directors
30:30 - Alan Pogue: Vietnam vet photographer who essentially lived in his darkroom at the Y
30:55 - Women of The Rag set up birth control and abortion counseling hotlines within the office
31:15 - Those women persuaded Sarah Weddington to take the Roe v. Wade case
32:00 - The Rag ahead of the underground press on women's issues; papers elsewhere split apart (Berkeley Barb, Rat)
32:55 - Women bringing new content; collective leadership model enabling more women's involvement
33:10 - Alice's time in New York: NACLA, cross-fertilization with The Rat; Jeff Shero and the women's takeover of The Rat
34:00 - Collective editorial model at The Rag, Space City, and Liberation News Service
36:00 - Underground papers' lack of financial sustainability; why the underground press died; The Rag's 11-year run as exceptional
38:00 - The obligation to pass these stories to younger generations
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Guest: Thorne Dreyer and Alice Embree, founders of The Rag, Austin's influential underground newspaper; prominent figures in the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).
Their ongoing work: The Rag Blog, Rag Radio, anthology Celebrating The Rag, Alice's memoir Voice Lessons
Production Team:
Host, Eddie Wilson - Armadillo World Headquarters founder @Threadgills
Host, Dr. Jason Mellard - Cultural historian @jasondeanmellard
Editor, Renee O'Connor
Music Mixing, Matt Carlson @axemanguitar
Producer, Renee O'Connor @realreneeoconnor
Producer, Sandra Wilson @sandrawilson709
Executive Producer, TSSI
Music by Jake Andrews Music @jakeandrewsmusic
Production assistant, Miles Muir @miles_muir
Production consultant, Katey Psencik
