Between Two Realms

About Between Two Realms

Between Two Realms explores the Bible's vision of the visible and invisible creation through biblical theology, church history, and the great Christian tradition. Recover the supernatural worldview of Scripture and discover how it transforms theology, worship, and everyday life.

Publisher

Andre Beck

Category

religion & spirituality

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

24 Jul 2026

Latest episode

23 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

12 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   23 Oct 2026

   Are ghosts biblical?

   Is it biblical to believe in ghosts? For a large part of his Christian life, Pastor Andre says, the obvious answer was no. In this episode he comes back to the question, looks at some evidence and offers some tentative conclusions. "My short answer is that yes, I think that it is biblical to believe in ghosts." "But probably not the way the culture means it." And on seeking them out he is as firm as he gets: "absolutely under no circumstances are you to initiate contact with the dead." Andre works with a very modest definition of a ghost, a disembodied spirit of a deceased human being, which doesn't say anything yet about hauntings or seances or mediums or poltergeists. The question is much more basic: does scripture recognise departed human spirits as a real category, and does it allow for the possibility that they may sometimes become perceptible to the living? The Old Testament has vocabulary for the dead, the shades in Sheol. Isaiah didn't say, don't consult the dead because there are no dead people to consult; he says God's covenant people should go to their God. In 1 Samuel 28 the narrator simply calls the figure Samuel, and Andre thinks the simplest explanation is that Samuel does actually appear. Necromancy is forbidden, in Deuteronomy 18 and for Christians too, not because these things are not real but because they are incredibly dangerous practices and because God's people ought to go to the Lord. Saul's sin is seeking unauthorised access to the invisible realm, and that gives the principle: the reality of the invisible realm does not imply that human beings have permission to access it however they choose. In the New Testament the disciples cry "it is a ghost" (Matthew 14:26), and in Luke 24 the risen Jesus says a spirit does not have flesh and bones as he has. Andre is not trying to turn this into Jesus teaching us about the reality of ghosts: Jesus is teaching them about the reality of his resurrection. At the transfiguration Moses, who did definitely die, is made perceptible to living human beings, and there's no seance, no portal, no practice of necromancy: the door is opened by God from above. To argue from Hebrews 9:27 that the dead cannot appear is, Andre thinks, putting too much weight on it; if anything, what it rules out is the concept of reincarnation. And scripture doesn't give us the grounds for saying that every apparent ghost is a demonic deception. It might be a deception. It might have a perfectly natural explanation. It could be something genuinely supernatural. So what do we say to someone who says, I saw my dead mother? Don't just default to "you've got a demon or you're crazy". Listen carefully. But that doesn't mean that we immediately validate and believe everything either. Scripture does not teach that ghosts routinely wander around the earth haunting houses, and it shuts the door on occult curiosity: we don't summon the dead, we don't seek revelation from them, we don't cultivate psychic abilities. Why the dead sometimes become visible, Andre says he doesn't know. Occasionally God does lift the veil between the realms, but human beings don't control those moments. God controls them. That realm belongs to God, and our task is not to master it, but to trust the one who rules both heaven and earth. That is why Christians don't need to fear ghosts: Jesus Christ is Lord of the realms. REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Michael Heiser - Meredith Kline - 1 Enoch (the Book of the Watchers) - Scripture: Isaiah 29:4, Isaiah 8:19, Genesis 6, Job 26:5, Psalm 88:10, Isaiah 14:9, 1 Samuel 28, Deuteronomy 18, Matthew 14:26, Luke 24, Matthew 17, Hebrews 9:27 Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/ Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1 #ghosts #bible #afterlife #biblicaltheology #christianpodcast

2. 

   16 Oct 2026

   Our World is Stranger than we Imagine

   Is our world too small for the supernatural worldview the Bible gives? Pastor Andre asks whether one of the problems facing Christians is that our world has simply become too small: just not big enough to handle everything that the Bible talks about. We confess an invisible world, God, angels, demons, heaven, resurrection, the incarnation, spiritual warfare. But how much does that actually shape the way that we really imagine reality? In this episode Andre starts with Colossians 1 and the Nicene Creed: creation is all things visible and invisible, and this is basic Christian cosmology. The supernatural is not only the dramatic stuff that makes headlines. What about prayer, worship, baptism and the Lord's Supper, the gathering of the local church on Sundays? Christianity is supernatural all the way down, from top to bottom. Then he takes the objections in turn. Isn't that dangerous? There are real dangers, and scripture gives us the boundaries that we need, but we are not safe if we stay away from these things: there are dangers on both ends. Isn't this a distraction from the main things? The incarnation, the victory of Christ, the church, spiritual warfare and Christian hope all involve the unseen realm, so these are the main things. Doesn't it lead to speculation? We mustn't go beyond what is written, but the Bible actually reveals far more about the invisible world than we often realise, and ignorance isn't safe either. Along the way: asking people on the street whether they have ever had an experience they couldn't explain, and how often "no, no" turns into "oh, actually"; a culture that is strongly materialist and yet just can't let it go; Michael Heiser and Hans Boersma, each credited with reservations, both challenging the flattening of the Christian cosmos produced by modernity; horizons that have shrunk to the political, to the bodily, to the cultural; why boredom with the Bible is not the Bible's fault; and the central claim, that the two realms, visible and invisible, interact, with traffic between them, especially in the far less spectacular: worship, prayer, the preached word, bread and wine. Christians don't need a world made more magical, Andre concludes. The biblical world is astonishing enough, and Christianity is wonderfully strange already. REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Michael Heiser - Hans Boersma - David Aune - John Milton - The Nicene Creed and the Westminster Confession of Faith - Scripture: Colossians 1:15 to 20, 1 John 3, Ephesians 3, 1 Samuel 28, Isaiah 34 Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/ Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1 #supernatural #invisiblerealm #biblicalworldview #biblicaltheology #christianpodcast

3. 

   9 Oct 2026

   The Supernatural and the Persecuted Church with Dan Gower

   What does the persecuted church count as supernatural? Pastor Andre is joined by the show's first guest, his friend Dan, who has spent the last seven years working with the persecuted church, to test a common belief: that if God is still acting supernaturally in the world, he is doing it on the front lines. Dan's answer is yes, but it's a bit more nuanced than that. Christians under pressure see more of God, he suggests, and a lot of it is probably to do with our hunger, with whether we are looking for it, and with the things that get in the way.In this conversation Andre and Dan ask what we reach for when we say supernatural. We go big, they agree, and Andre suggests we gravitate towards whatever makes life easier now: healing, money, our best life now. Dan's biggest learning from spending time with persecuted Christians is their heavenly perspective: it's going to be okay, one day I'm going to be with Jesus. He remembers a North Korean Christian who told him, you don't realise Jesus is all you need until Jesus is all you have, and he passes on the story of a pastor who was told to convert or die and would not, whose family were absolutely devastated and yet pleased that his faith was still intact till the end. For Andre, the fact that someone is able to endure to the end is a profoundly supernatural thing, not a natural ability, and that is as true for Christians here as it is there. Christians can feel disenchanted with their faith, he says, because they fail to see the extraordinary work of God in the ordinary moments. Dan has a name for it: the everyday supernatural.Along the way: a pastor held at gunpoint who shared the gospel with his captors, and who says he has never found God to let him down; Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and the fourth man in the fire; Andre's own conversion, when it was as if God grabbed him by the scruff of the neck; his warning that the great temptation for Christians in the West is to hear stories like these and begin to target Muslims as the enemy, when Paul says our struggle is not against flesh and blood; evangelists whose attackers heard what could only be described as the sound of heaven, dropped their weapons and ran; and Dan's challenge that the persecuted church's experience is far more consistent with the New Testament than ours. God moving in miraculous ways is the norm, he puts it to Andre. We're just out of step with it.The conversation ends on forgiveness. Dan tells of a friend who prayed the Lord's Prayer whilst being attacked and forgave the people attacking him in the moment. Andre is careful to say that this is not about telling a victim they must forgive or else; these are people convinced that to be a Christian in this world is to be an agent of love. He recalls C.S. Lewis on miracles, doing quickly what the Father does slowly: forgiveness that happensinstantly is miraculous, and no less miraculous for being slow. Where the supernatural and the natural meet, Dan says, is loving our enemies.REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY- Open Doors: the list of the 50 hardest places to follow Jesus, cited by Dan- C.S. Lewis on miracles, as Andre recalls him- Scripture: Colossians (Paul's prayer for strength to endure), Daniel 3 (Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and the fourth man in the fire, the story named on air), Ephesians 6:12 (quoted), Ephesians 2, the Lord's Prayer, Matthew 5 (quoted: love and pray for those who persecute you)This conversation includes accounts of violence against Christians. Names and places in these stories are left out of these notes for the safety of the people in them.Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1#persecutedchurch #forgiveness #supernatural #christianliving #christianpodcast

4. 

   2 Oct 2026

   Heavenly Minded

   Heavenly minded, or no earthly good? Pastor Andre takes the old jibe, so heavenly-minded that they're no earthly good, and turns it round. He has never met a Christian like that, and the Bible seems to direct our thinking in exactly the opposite direction: if you want to be some good in this world, you've got to be heavenly minded. The church's real problem, he suggests, is that we're not heavenly minded enough, because when heaven stops being real, heavenly mindedness starts to look like escapism. In this episode Andre asks what heavenly mindedness is, and what it means to live inside a cosmos that is both visible and invisible. With Charles Taylor's A Secular Age he describes how the West has moved from an enchanted world to a disenchanted one, from the porous self to the buffered self, and how even believing Christians breathe its air and end up with a functionally disenchanted faith. With Meredith Kline's archetype and ectype, and Michael Heiser's unseen realm, he sets out one cosmos with two registers, heaven and earth not sealed off from one another but interacting, so that heavenly mindedness is about understanding what the real world is. Then he follows the New Testament upwards: Abraham in the promised land but still camping, looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God; heaven as our homeland, a created realm, the pattern for the tabernacle and the most real place there is; and our citizenship in heaven, which Paul does not set alongside earthly citizenship as an equal but radically relativises. Along the way: a church in London of about 100 people with 27 different nationalities; the Narnian horse of The Horse and His Boy, who keeps talking about his home country even though he can barely remember it; how the heavenly citizenship becomes a plaque on the wall while we live by our other passport; Colossians 3, where the Christian life is heavenly all the way down and heavenly mindedness is not one box amongst many; Hebrews 12, where you have come to Mount Zion, the church's worship is joined to the heavenly court, and why losing that turns church into just a social club; the inheritance kept in heaven in 1 Peter 1, with the great institutions of Israel relocated upwards and fulfilled in Christ; and Romans 8, where creation groans and the Spirit produces a yearning and groaning for heaven in us. Heavenly mindedness, Andre concludes, is what makes us of earthly good. REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Charles Taylor, A Secular Age: the porous self and the buffered self, and the move from an enchanted world to a disenchanted one - Meredith Kline on archetype and ectype: mountains and the glory cloud pointing beyond themselves - Michael Heiser on the unseen realm and the divine council - The Horse and His Boy, from C.S. Lewis's Narnia series - Scripture: Genesis 1 to 3, Hebrews 11:8 to 10, Hebrews 11:14, Revelation 21, Ephesians 2, Colossians 3:1 to 4, Hebrews 12, 1 Peter 1, Galatians 4, Romans 8, 2 Corinthians 5, 2 Peter 3, 1 John 3 This episode takes stock of the series so far: the divine council, the fall of the supernatural realm and the work Christ is doing to raise the dead are all aimed, Andre says, at helping us to become more heavenly minded, so that we can fix our eyes on Jesus, who is the author and perfecter of our faith. Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/ Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1 #heavenlyminded #heaven #christianliving #biblicaltheology #christianpodcast

5. 

   25 Sept 2026

   Atonement and the Invisible Realm

   The atonement reaches both realms. Because our world's corruption is both visible and invisible, Andre argues, the salvation we need concerns both, and Christ has come not only to deal with material things but also with the immaterial: not only with matter, but also with spirit. In his view, Christus Victor is what Jesus came to do, and penal substitutionary atonement is how he has done it.In this episode Pastor Andre treats the atoning work of Christ as one diamond seen through its different facets, and warns against playing the models of atonement off against each other. From 1 John 3:8, he came in the flesh to destroy the works of the devil, he traces the Genesis 3:15 promise of one who would crush the serpent's head through the promise to Abraham in Genesis 12, and through Adam, Israel, David and Solomon, sons of God who all failed, to Jesus, the true Adam, the true Israel and the true king, who meets Satan in the wilderness, resists him and binds the strong man. In Mark 5 an entire legion of demons kneels in terror before him, and Andre reads the drowning pigs not as mercy to the demons but as sending them back to the abyss.Along the way: why the decisive turning point comes not in the wilderness but through Jesus' death and resurrection, where the tables were turned and Satan, the accuser of the brethren, no longer has any legal basis for accusation; how the two models of atonement come together; the harrowing of Hades, Matthew 27 and the keys of death and Hades in Revelation 1, and why, as Andre puts it, Christians are never described as being dead: we go up, not down; Ephesians 4:9 and the descent to the dead in the Apostles' Creed;the church as a sacramental icon of the kingdom, an outpost behind enemy lines and God's own temple, with Christ in the midst of his people; why churches are extraordinary, even though lots of people get hurt in them; the Great Commission and the Lord's prayer; and Babel, Deuteronomy 32, Psalm 82and Daniel 10, the cosmic geography Andre sees looming in the background of the Great Commission, which makes the local church the front line of the warfare. We needed a champion to come and defeat Satan so that we could beset free, and that warfare continues today through the church's mission.REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY- John Chrysostom on Colossians 2: there death received his wound, having met his death stroke from a dead body- Leon Morris's commentary on Matthew: Jesus as the Lord of both the living and the dead- Hilary of Poitiers on the opened graves of Matthew 27- Meredith Kline on Babel as an anti-God scheme, satanically conceived- Michael Heiser on the allocation of the nations according to the number of the sons of God in Deuteronomy 32- The Apostles' Creed: he descended to the dead- Scripture: Genesis 3:15, Genesis 9, Genesis 11:4, Genesis 12, Deuteronomy 4:19 to 20, Deuteronomy 32:8 to 9, Psalm 82, Daniel 10, Matthew 27, Mark 3, Mark 5, John 15, Acts 2, Romans 5, 1 Corinthians 3 and 6, 2 Corinthians 4, Ephesians 3, Ephesians 4:9, Philippians 2, Colossians 2, 1 Peter 2, 1 Peter 3, 1 John 3:8, Revelation 1, Revelation 2 and 3, Revelation 19, Revelation 21This episode picks up where the series left off, after the episodes on the supernatural in creation and in the fall, with a pointer of hope to the coming of Christ.Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1#atonement #christusvictor #unseenrealm #biblicaltheology #christianpodcast

6. 

   18 Sept 2026

   Sheol, Hell and Hades

   If Satan falls, where is he now? The Old Testament's most common word for the afterlife is Sheol, and Sheol is not simply hell. Everybody in the Old Testament goes there, righteous and wicked alike, and not everyone who goes down experiences the same thing. It is the realm the serpent was cast down to in Genesis 3:14, and it overlaps our world like a fog. In this episode Pastor Andre goes back to the curse on the serpent in Genesis 3:14, you will eat dust all the days of your life, and asks the question the language of humiliation does not answer: if Satan is a spirit, where does he dwell? Following Michael Heiser's reading of the curse through Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, the serpent is cast down to the Eretz, the ground, a Hebrew word whose range overlaps hugely with Sheol. The one who wanted to be most high is made most low, and for the first time in the biblical story his domain is created and given a name. Sheol is below the ground and part of the realm of the dust, yet it is not part of the visible material world, because the way the Bible teaches us truths about the invisible realities we cannot see is by showing them to us through visible realities we can see. Along the way: Augustine's picture of Sheol as a foggy atmosphere around our world, so that we are in some sense walking through the fog of Sheol, of Hades and of hell; how Hebrew Sheol became Greek Hades, Latin infernus and our word hell, and how the lake of fire got muddled in with it; Saul and the medium of Endor in 1 Samuel 28, and why she is terrified: not because a trick unexpectedly worked, but because seeing Samuel reveals that the man in front of her is Saul, the king who ordered mediums executed; why the law against consulting the dead exists because the danger is real, not because it is not; Genesis 6, Genesis 19 and Aquinas on angels who assume human form, with Meredith Kline's demonically driven kings as another option on the table; Hans Boersma's sacramental ontology and Kline's earthly ectype and heavenly archetype, mountain to mountain and earth to Sheol; Azazel, Lilith and the gates of hell at Mount Hermon; and Luke 16, where the fixed chasm sits between regions within Sheol, not between the living and the dead. And finally, from Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20 and Romans 8:20, why God's redemptive intention was never limited to people alone or to the visible realm alone: the kingdom of God is actively reclaiming ground, not only people but territory temporarily ceded to the kingdom of darkness, though not everyone and everything will ultimately share in that renewed creation. REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Michael Heiser on the serpent cast down to the Eretz, read through Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, and on a second wordplay on rock at Caesarea Philippi (a reading Andre says deserves more scrutiny than he can give it here) - Augustine on Sheol as a foggy atmosphere around our world - Aquinas on angels assuming human form, appearing to eat, and Genesis 6 - Meredith Kline on the sons of God as demonically driven human kings, and on earthly ectype and heavenly archetype - Hans Boersma's sacramental ontology - Scripture: Genesis 3:14, Genesis 6, Genesis 19, 1 Samuel 28, Isaiah 14, Isaiah 34, Ezekiel 28, Matthew 16, Luke 16, Romans 8:20, Ephesians 1:10, Colossians 1:20, Revelation 12 This is a follow-on from the episode on angels and demons, and it sets up the next episode on what we needed from a Saviour: someone to not only save people but also to redeem place. Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/ Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1 #sheol #hades #unseenrealm #biblicaltheology #christianpodcast

7. 

   11 Sept 2026

   Angels and Demons: Not One Fall, But Several

   Are demons simply fallen angels? Almost everyone assumes so. In this episode of Between Two Realms, Pastor Andre takes the words we use loosely in ordinary Christian conversation, angel, demon, Elohim, and tightens them, and finds the Bible telling a stranger story than the one most of us inherited. Angel names a job rather than a species. In Greek and in Hebrew the word means messenger: it describes what these beings do, not what they are. But scripture does not restrict the word to that narrow sense either. It also uses it as an umbrella covering a whole range of supernatural beings, some loyal to God and some in open rebellion, which is why Revelation 12 can put angels on both sides of the same war. And if that war is a war of messages, then it is a war about truth. Who do you believe? What do you believe? From there the argument turns to the fall itself, and to the claim that gives the episode its shape: their corruption happened in stages. Revelation 12 seems to cast Satan down not once but twice within a single chapter, and Genesis 6, probably the most argued over passage in the whole Old Testament and the one sermons so often step around, reads as a distinct second rebellion. Taken the way ancient Jewish and early Christian readers took it, with the sons of God as spiritual beings and the Nephilim as the consequence, it gives the Old Testament a demonology of its own, and it changes what the Bible is doing when it touches the myths of the ancient world. It neither accepts the narrative of the ancient world at large nor rejects it. It comments on it. You all know about the flood. Here is what the flood was really about. It ends where this channel began. You do not look over the natural world, or above it, or around it. You look through it to the supernatural world, and you do not let the modernist paradigm quietly demythologise your reading of scripture. CHAPTERS 00:00 Cold open: it's a war about truth 00:27 Title sequence 00:38 What has gone wrong with the world 02:40 Angel names a job, not a species 05:20 Revelation 12: a war of messengers 08:26 Not one fall, but several 12:36 Genesis 6 and the reading the church lost 19:52 Enoch, Jude and the flood traditions 29:02 What the Bible does with myth 32:08 Are there demons in the Old Testament? 41:58 Heaven itself is contested REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Michael Heiser on angel as a term of function, on corruption in stages, and on the three categories of Old Testament spirits - The ancient Jewish and early Christian reading of the sons of God, and the later turn in Christian tradition that set it aside - 1 Enoch and the Book of the Watchers, and the flood and origin traditions of the ancient Near East, including Gilgamesh - Scripture: Genesis 3, Genesis 6, Leviticus 16, Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, 2 Peter 2, Jude 6 to 7, Ephesians 1, 2, 3 and 6, Revelation 12 Next time we descend into Sheol. Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/ Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1 #angelsanddemons #genesis6 #unseenrealm #biblicaltheology #christianpodcast

8. 

   4 Sept 2026

   The Fall of the Invisible Realm

   Most of us tell the story of the fall with only one character in it. Adam eats, the world breaks, and everything that follows is about putting the visible world right. But Ephesians 1:10 says Christ's redemption was always meant to gather the whole cosmos, visible and invisible, under his headship. So if heaven's corruption is missing from our doctrine of sin, heaven's redemption goes missing from our gospel, and the good news gets smaller than it is. In this episode Pastor Andre takes up the trickiest question in Scripture: where the serpent came from. Genesis 3 never explains how a snake learned to talk, and it never explains why Adam and Eve were not surprised to meet one. Reading Eden as the throne room of the cosmic temple, and following Michael Heiser's work on seraph and nachash, he argues that the serpent is a corrupted throne guardian who belonged in that room, and that Genesis 3 is not resting on some earlier unnarrated rebellion. It IS the account of Satan's fall. Along the way: why Calvin dismissed the traditional reading of Isaiah 14, why the church fathers were more divided than we remember, what Ezekiel 28 is actually comparing the king of Tyre to, and why the better motive for the rebellion is not naked pride but jealousy of a new image bearer made of dust whom God intends to raise above the angels. Which is also why the enemy's agenda has been anti-human ever since. CHAPTERS 00:00 Cold open: nobody explains the talking snake 00:24 Title sequence 00:35 Reality is not only what you can see 04:12 But what went wrong? 05:19 The fall we only half tell 06:42 The trickiest question in scripture 08:24 Calvin pulls the floor out 10:06 Heiser, the seraphim and the nachash 14:27 He belonged there 16:38 Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 21:10 Pride, jealousy and a new image bearer 24:34 Sabotage, not a coup 26:00 How evil came into the world REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Michael Heiser on seraph, nachash and Egyptian throne guardian imagery - John Calvin on Isaiah 14:12 and the king of the Babylonians - Meredith Kline on the serpent taking serpentine form - The church fathers on pride and jealousy as motives for the fall - Scripture: Genesis 1, Genesis 2, Genesis 3, Exodus 28, Psalm 8, Isaiah 6, Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, Ephesians 1:10 This is a follow-on from the episode on the divine council and hierarchy, and it sets up what angels and demons actually are. Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/ Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1 #genesis3 #unseenrealm #biblicaltheology #christianpodcast #problemofevil

9. 

   25 Aug 2026

   The Divine Council: Who Is the "Us" in Genesis 1?

   Who is God speaking to in Genesis 1 when he says "let us make man in our image"? In this episode of Between Two Realms, Pastor Andre walks through the divine council: the picture, running right through scripture, of God meeting with his heavenly host, and what it means that he rules through means rather than alone. From Elohim as an umbrella term broad enough to cover the one true God and created spiritual beings alike, through Psalm 82 and the sons of God, to the hierarchy the ancient world took for granted and we find strange, this is an argument that the beings scripture describes are not pretend. It ends where it matters: humanity as the hybrid creature belonging to both realms at once, placed in God's temple not as a carving but as a living image, so that Adam and Eve bear God's image on earth while the council bears it in heaven, two realms sharing one common commission. CHAPTERS 00:00 Cold open: the image wasn't a carving 00:31 Title sequence 00:41 What the divine council is 04:43 El, Elohim and the ancient Near East 09:56 Psalm 82 and the sons of God 16:08 Why hierarchy makes us nervous 18:08 The nine choirs, and Calvin's dismissal 22:20 Ranks and tiers: how the council is ordered 27:41 Where the two realms meet in man 31:01 One commission, shared REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Michael Heiser on Elohim, the sons of God and the three-tier structure - Meredith Kline, and the ancient Near Eastern dynastic household - Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite on the nine choirs of angels, and John Calvin's dismissal of him as speculative - Millard Erickson on the titles scripture gives these beings - Scripture: Genesis 1, Job 38, Psalm 2, Psalm 82, Hosea 11, Jude 9, Daniel 10, Revelation 4 to 6, Luke's genealogy Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/ Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Between-Two-Realms?sub_confirmation=1 #divinecouncil #christianpodcast #biblicaltheology #genesis #angels

10. 

    31 Jul 2026

    Genesis 1: The Cosmic Temple and the Invisible Realm

    Is Genesis 1 a mere heading, or the making of a cosmic temple? In this episode of Between Two Realms, Pastor Andre reads "the heavens and the earth" as two registers of one cosmos: the material realm and an invisible realm that is equally real, with everything visible created to point beyond itself and turn our eyes upward to God. From the three heavens and Paul's third-heaven vision, to Psalm 8 where David moves from stars to man to angels in one thought, to the tabernacle patterned after a heavenly original and Eden as a garden temple meant to fill the earth, this is creation read as one great temple, with C.S. Lewis's warning against chronological snobbery along the way, and an answer to a culture that only asks what the stars are made of, never why they are there. CHAPTERS 00:00 Cold open: why stars and planets were worshipped 00:24 Title sequence 00:34 Everything visible points beyond itself 03:23 Two registers: material and immaterial 06:33 The three heavens: upward, upward, upward 11:00 Stars point to angels 16:46 Reading the two books: scripture and nature 18:41 The tabernacle patterned after heaven 21:52 The cosmic temple and Eden's commission 26:15 Angels at the dawn of creation REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - C.S. Lewis: chronological snobbery, confusing what a thing is with what it is made of, and the singing at the dawn of Narnia - J.R.R. Tolkien: the singing over the dawn of creation in his myth - Michael Heiser on the ancient and modern views of the stars, and Eden - Thomas Aquinas on Isaiah 14 and the space where only God is - Meredith Kline on the archetype in heaven and its ectype on earth - G.K. Beale on the temple's three divisions - Scripture: Genesis 1, Job 38, Psalm 8, Proverbs 8, Isaiah 14, 2 Corinthians 12, Colossians 1, Hebrews 8 and 9, Revelation 12 Watch on YouTube: [EP03-LINK] Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/

11. 

    24 Jul 2026

    Michael Heiser and the Unseen Realm We Stopped Seeing

    Michael Heiser called it the unseen realm: the world Scripture describes and the modern West has stopped seeing. Look around the room you are sitting in and name what is real. Most of us stop at the books, the walls, the chair, the things we can see and touch. But if we believe the Bible, God made things visible and invisible, and both are fully real. In this second episode of Between Two Realms, Pastor Andre builds on episode one and the experience of disenchantment, asking whether even Christians quietly live as functional deists: believing God is out there, but not that he really interacts with us or our world. Drawing on Michael Heiser, Hans Boersma and Meredith Kline, he makes the case that Scripture assumes one cosmos in two registers, visible and invisible, both central to the gospel. Not two separate universes: one creation, two registers, one Lord, one story. CHAPTERS 00:00 Cold open: name what is real in your room 00:28 Title sequence 00:39 What is real? Visible and invisible 02:49 Do we live like functional deists? 10:47 Michael Heiser and the unseen realm 15:10 Boersma: creation as a window, not a wall 18:42 One creation, two registers 24:47 The seeker's tragedy 27:18 Strange passages as windows 29:30 How we lost the sacred: buffered vs porous 32:51 Ravenous for the supernatural 38:19 Not fear, not sensationalism, but theology REFERENCED ALONG THE WAY - Michael Heiser, The Unseen Realm, and Psalm 82 on the divine council of the Elohim - Meredith Kline on the cosmos in two registers, the upper (invisible) and lower (visible) - Hans Boersma, Heavenly Participation, and the sacramental tapestry: creation as a window rather than a wall - Charles Taylor on the buffered versus the porous self - C.S. Lewis, The Discarded Image, on the crowded pre-modern sky - Christian Smith on moralistic therapeutic deism - Colossians 1:16 ("all things were created... visible and invisible") and the Nicene Creed on things visible and invisible - Genesis 1:1 (the heavens and the earth), and the strange passages Heiser reads as windows: the witch of Endor, the rich man and Lazarus, and 1 Peter on Christ preaching to the imprisoned spirits Episode 1 (start here, the experience of disenchantment): https://youtu.be/qFfqp0d3H9o Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/g3DvbNGN2rE Website: https://between-two-realms.pages.dev/

12. 

    24 Jul 2026

    Breaking the Spell of Disenchantment with Tolkien and Lewis

    Has modern life left us disenchanted? Why do so many people struggle to believe that the world is more than matter and mechanism? In this first episode of Between Two Realms, we explore the loss of the biblical supernatural worldview and why recovering it is essential for Christian faith today. Drawing on Scripture, church history, and the insights of thinkers such as Charles Taylor and Michael Heiser, we consider how the Bible presents reality as both visible and invisible, where heaven and earth overlap and God's kingdom breaks into the ordinary world. Whether you're interested in biblical theology, Christian worldview, angels and demons, heaven and earth, spiritual warfare, or the history of Christian thought, this episode lays the foundation for everything to come in the series. In this episode: What is "disenchantment"? How the modern world lost its supernatural vision The Bible's view of the visible and invisible creation Why recovering wonder matters for Christian discipleship How Scripture reshapes the way we see reality If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who wants to think more deeply about the Christian faith. About Between Two Realms Between Two Realms explores the Bible's vision of the visible and invisible creation through biblical theology, church history, and the great Christian tradition. Our aim is to recover the supernatural worldview of Scripture and discover how it transforms theology, worship, and everyday life.

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