Psychotherapists John Totten and Mason Neely bring you this psychotherapy podcast that explores what is happening between therapists and patients, from both sides of the relationship.
Dorothy Holmes joins John Totten for a live conversation at the International Forum for Psychoanalytic Education. As the Forum’s Hans Loewald Award recipient, Dr. Holmes reflects on her work with the Holmes Commission, the racial enactments she has observed within the psychoanalytic field, and her invitational upbringing as the granddaughter of a minister. Her family instilled in her an inclusive vision-one in which truth is not sacrificed for niceties, but all are invited into the fold- to turn ghosts into ancestors in service of a better world.
Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ
1 Oct 2025
Episode 60: Recognition, In Real Life
Jessica Benjamin joins host John Totten for our season finale. In a wide-ranging conversation [outlined below], the renowned psychoanalyst and theorist reflects on her radical upbringing, the development of recognition theory, and the feminist lens through which she examines our persistent social dilemmas. Why does more civilization seem to generate more problems? Dr. Benjamin’s answer diverges from Freud’s, and her concept of repair exposes how often conformity is entangled with domination. From mundane conventions like parenting roles to the horrors of war and genocide, her concepts illuminate pathways of transformation through multiplicity, challenging the belief that “only one can live.” She proposes that feminism offers a way forward in the clinic and society: a chance to move beyond rigid binaries into “The Third”- a space of mutual recognition, but only if we are first willing to confront the ways we’ve been getting it wrong.
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1. Biography and Early Curiosities - 13:21
2. Formation of Recognition Theory- 20:25
3. Feminism and Family Roles- 27:30
4. Oedipus and Gender Binaries- 30:54
5. Reversal and Bourgeois Feminism- 37:42
6. Response to Critiques-42:44
7. Clinical Vignettes of Recognition- 48:35
8. Crossing the Bridge of Difference-54:25
9. The Third, Breakdown, and Repair- 56:05
10. Survivalism and Conflict Resolution- 66:30
11. Infant Studies and Acknowledgement- 74:14
12. Destruction and Play-79:30
13. Escalation and Unconscious Guilt- 86:54
14. Capitalism and Supremacy- 91:00
16. Hope- 99:30
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Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll
Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ
17 Sept 2025
Episode 59: Bad Faith Alone
Lara Sheehi was doing her job as a professor of clinical psychology when her criticism of Israel catapulted her into uninvited infamy. Bad faith accusations of antisemitism, reliant on obfuscating political dissent with bigotry led to her investigation while reports from news outlets led to her being disinvited from speaking engagements, stalked, and protested. Despite a letter of support from Jewish colleagues that included giants in the field of psychoanalysis, the controversy split the field in two- those who knew her compassionate work on behalf of the oppressed and those who scapegoated her as a danger to psychoanalytic innocence. It is this myth of purity that shapes Lara’s theory and resistance to the veil of mutuality and dialogue, which she contends too often obstructs the very nature of our unequal material realities. Sheehi challenges us to be vigilant towards misrecognition, the not-so-unconscious ways in which we commit to logics of oppression, especially those of us who identify as healers.
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Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll
Website: www.betweenuspodcast.com
Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ
Inside a recent episode
Episode 61: Fifty Miles of Elbow Room
Published 25 Feb 2026 · Transcript excerpt
[…] And I don't get tired of it in psychoanalysis either. There are many images that stand out for me and contribute to the dedication I've been able to have to psychoanalysis. I told you about my grandfather preparing his sermons. My mother was an amazing teacher. She didn't take the direct route. She dropped out of college at first, which is sort of a no -no in the family, but she went back. And I saw her get her college degree when I was 12 years old. I was at her graduation. I can never talk about it without goose pimples and near tears. I can't wake up at midnight and she'd be studying to get herself through college. […]
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