Conversations with leading economists and historians, connecting the study of our past to the solutions of our future.
CAGE Economic History
Claim This Podcastby CAGE Research Centre (Warwick University)
5 episodes
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Conversations with leading economists and historians, connecting the study of our past to the solutions of our future.
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4/20/2026
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Recent Episodes
May 14, 2026
The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (with Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)
<p>Was India once an affluent empire, later impoverished by British colonisation? Or was India never rich to begin with? </p><p>More generally, what does historical data on wages and other economic indicators tell us about the broader story of the making of the modern world – a world with great affluence, but where much of the riches are still concentrated in the Western world.</p><p>For over 20 years now, Stephen Broadberry and Bishnupriya Gupta have worked to measure the evolution of global living standards from the medieval period onwards. </p><p>In this episode, they begin by discussing a comparison between the historical economies of India and Britain. We then continue to a broader story of the living standards of the pre-industrial world. We also discuss different theories of the “Great Divergence” between the West and the rest of the world. We finish by turning our attention to the future, asking if the 21st century will be remembered as the Asian century.</p><p>This episode concludes the five-part series on the making of the modern world, produced by CAGE Research Centre and On Humans. </p><p><strong>LINKS AND REFERENCES</strong></p><p>Do you prefer reading to listening? You can find a summarised essay of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page:<a href="https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/"> <u>https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/</u></a></p><p><strong> NAMES MENTIONED</strong></p><p>Kenneth Pomeranz | Angus Maddison | Daron Acemoglu | James Robinson | Nico Voigtländer | Hans-Joachim Voth | Debin Ma | Robert Allen | Joel Mokyr</p><p> </p><p><strong>KEYWORDS</strong></p><p>Economics | History | Global Economic History | Industrial Revolution | Indian history | Imperial history | East India Company | Emperor Akbar | Colonisation | Historical GDP estimates | Historical living standard estimates | Wage history | History of labour | Social history | Comparative development | State capacity | Malthusian trap | History of Technology </p><p><strong>INFO</strong></p><p>Guests: Bishnupriya Gupta (University of Warwick) and Stephen Broadberry (University of Oxford) <a href="https://economics.northwestern.edu/people/directory/joel-mokyr.html"><u></u></a></p><p>Host: Ilari Mäkelä (<a href="https://onhumans.substack.com/about"><u>On Humans</u></a>)</p><p>Contact: greatdivergencepod@gmail.com</p><p><br></p>
May 7, 2026
A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (with Debin Ma)
<p>The tech gap between China and the West is closing fast. But why did the land that invented paper and gunpowder ever fall behind? </p><p>Debin Ma is the world’s leading economic historian of East Asia. In this fourth episode of our Great Divergence series, he approaches the making of the modern world from an eastern perspective. We discuss why China fell behind, why Japan modernised early, and why East Asia has experienced so many economic miracles. We also discuss China’s recent transformation – a transformation that Ma has witnessed firsthand. </p><p><br></p><p><strong>LINKS AND REFERENCES</strong></p><p>Do you prefer reading to listening? You can find a summarised essay of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page:<a href="https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"> https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/</a></p><p><br></p><p><strong>GREAT DIVERGENCE: THE MAKING OF THE MODERN WORLD</strong></p><p>This episode is part of a series produced by Warwick University’s<a href="https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"> CAGE Research Centre</a> in collaboration with<a href="https://onhumans.substack.com/about" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"> On Humans</a>, searching for explanations to why Western Europe and North America emerged as the most affluent and technologically advanced regions of the modern world. Guided by six expert guests, including a winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, we approach this topic with balance and breadth, exploring everything from colonialism and fossil fuels to science and technology. </p><p>1 | Why the West? Colonies, fossil fuels, and lessons from China (Kenneth Pomeranz)</p><p>2 | Why did so many inventions come from Europe? (with Joel Mokyr)</p><p>3 | Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (Robert Allen) </p><p>4 | A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (Debin Ma)</p><p>5 | The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)</p><p><br></p><p><strong>NAMES MENTIONED</strong></p><p>Joseph Needham | Kenneth Pomeranz | Joel Mokyr | Robert Allen | Francis Fukuyama | Jared Rubin | Yin Weiwen | Kaiser Kuo | Deng Xiaoping | Yasheng Huang</p><p> </p><p><strong>KEYWORDS</strong></p><p>Economics | History | Global Economic History | Industrial Revolution | Chinese history | Japanese history | Developmental Economics | Needham Puzzle | Needham Question | Qianlong Emperor | Macartney embassy | Meiji Japan | Iwakura mission | Age heaping | Comparative development | State capacity | Modern fiscal state | History of taxation | Industrial Policy | History of Technology | Human capital</p><p><br></p><p><strong>INFO</strong></p><p>Guest: Debin Ma (Fudan University and All Souls College, University of Oxford) <a href="https://economics.northwestern.edu/people/directory/joel-mokyr.html" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"></a></p><p>Host: Ilari Mäkelä (<a href="https://onhumans.substack.com/about" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer">On Humans Podcast</a>)</p><p>Contact: <a href="mailto:greatdivergencepod@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer">greatdivergencepod@gmail.com</a><br></p>
April 29, 2026
Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (with Robert Allen)
<p>Why was industrial modernity born in Europe and not, say, China? This is one of the most consequential questions about the origins of the modern world. Yet asking “why Europe” can mislead. The Industrial Revolution was not a European event. It was a British event. So why was the steam engine invented in Britain, and not France or Italy?</p><p>Oxford professor Robert Allen has worked for decades trying to understand this question. </p><p>Allen believes that to understand the path to modernity, we must forget grand generalisations about the West. Instead, he asks us to zoom in on two very specific dynamics that shaped the British economy in the 1700s: cheap fuel and expensive workers. Together, they jolted Britain into a path where ever more work was streamlined with the help of machines and fossil fuels — a path that we are still walking on, with AI and robotics simply the latest sightings on this long march of modernity.</p><p>In this episode, we discuss the surprising revelations that led Allen to his theory. We discuss the reasons that British wages were high, and we discuss recent scholarship suggesting that this wasn’t the case–or at least, was not the cause for the Industrial Revolution. We also discuss the more humane side of wages, tracing the history of worker wellbeing from the Black Death to today. </p><p>As always in this series, we finish with our guests’ reflections on the future.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>LINKS AND REFERENCES</strong></p><p>Do you prefer reading to listening? You can find a summarised essay of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page:<a href="https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"> https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/</a></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><strong>GREAT DIVERGENCE: THE MAKING OF THE MODERN WORLD</strong></p><p>This episode is part of a series produced by Warwick University’s<a href="https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/"> CAGE Research Centre</a> in collaboration with<a href="https://onhumans.substack.com/about"> On Humans</a>, searching for explanations to why Western Europe and North America emerged as the most affluent and technologically advanced regions of the modern world. Guided by six expert guests, including a winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, we approach this topic with balance and breadth, exploring everything from colonialism and fossil fuels to science and technology. </p><p>1 | Why the West? Colonies, fossil fuels, and lessons from China (Kenneth Pomeranz)</p><p>2 | Why did so many inventions come from Europe? (with Joel Mokyr)</p><p>3 | Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (Robert Allen) </p><p>4 | A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (Debin Ma)</p><p>5 | The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)</p><p><br></p><p><strong>NAMES MENTIONED</strong></p><p>James E. Thorold Rogers | Kenneth Pomeranz | Joel Mokyr | Jane Humphries | Daniel Defoe | Bradford J. (Brad) DeLong | Branko Milanovic | Daron Acemoglu | Oded Galor</p><p><br></p><p><strong>KEYWORDS</strong></p><p>Economics | History | Global Economic History | Industrial Revolution | Age of Inventions | Steam engine| European Miracle | British Industrial Revolution in Global Perspective | Wage history | History of labour | Social history | Comparative development | Meiji Japan | Spinning Jenny | Industrial Policy | History of Technology | History of Inventions </p><p><br></p><p><strong>EPISODE INFO</strong></p><p>Guest: Robert C. Allen (Nuffield College, University of Oxford and NYU Abu Dhabi) <a href="https://economics.northwestern.edu/people/directory/joel-mokyr.html" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"></a></p><p>Host: Ilari Mäkelä (<a href="https://onhumans.substack.com/about" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer">On Humans</a>)</p><p>Contact: greatdivergencepod@gmail.com</p><p><br></p>
5 total episodes available
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