Converging Paths is a podcast for people who care about faith and refuse to live it narrowly.
Through sustained conversations among a Christian minister, Jewish rabbis, Buddhist teachers, and others, the podcast explores how different spiritual traditions wrestle with the same human questions — meaning, suffering, joy, justice, love, and the transformation of the self.
Hosted from a Christian perspective shaped by Christian Pluralism, Converging Paths is rooted in the way of Jesus while honoring the sacred wisdom of other faiths. It is not about blending religions or erasing difference, but about listening across boundaries, learning with humility, and discovering how interfaith dialogue can deepen — rather than dilute — a faithful life.
Each season offers thoughtful, honest conversation at the intersection of spirituality, culture, and the inner work needed to live wisely and compassionately in a fractured world.
The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Ep 6 - Thine, Not Mine: Who Really Has the Power?
“For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever.”
What does it mean to say those words when innocent people suffer and the world seems anything but governed by a loving God?
In the finale of The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Rev. Eric Elnes, Ph.D., Rabbi Brian Zachary Mayer, and Zen Buddhist teacher Esther Freinkel-Tishman wrestle with the Lord’s Prayer’s traditional closing words—and especially with one deceptively difficult word: thine.
Together they explore whether surrendering power to God means relinquishing responsibility; why the earliest Christians may have added this doxology to a prayer that originally ended with “deliver us from evil”; its deep resonance with Jewish prayer and resistance to Roman power; and the surprising parallels between the Lord’s Prayer and Buddhist practices of bowing, surrender, and letting go.
Eric also discovers an unexpected correspondence between the prayer and his own Four Bows Meditation, culminating in the recognition: “Thine, not mine.”
Then, looking back over the entire six-part series, the three discover another word hiding in plain sight: us. Their journey ends with a question larger than any one tradition: What becomes possible when we encounter scripture through the rule of love—and through one another?
Part 6 and the series finale of The Prayer We Thought We Knew.
18 Oct 2026
The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Ep 5 - Does God Tempt Us?
What if the temptations we most need to worry about aren’t obviously bad—but look like something good?
Rev. Dr. Eric Elnes is joined by Rabbi Brian Zachary Mayer and Zen Buddhist teacher Esther Freinkel-Tishman to explore one of the strangest lines in the Lord’s Prayer: “Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.”
Why would God lead anyone into temptation? Does God test us? And what do Judaism and Buddhism make of Christian ideas about temptation, Satan, and evil?
The conversation moves from the Jewish yetzer hara—the inclination that can lead us astray but also fuels creativity and achievement—to the Buddha’s encounter with Mara and Jesus’ temptations in the wilderness. Along the way, a deeper question emerges: What if some of our greatest temptations come from wanting to do something genuinely good?
Eric, Brian, and Esther explore how we discern between a good thing and our good thing—and why spiritual maturity may depend less on eliminating temptation than on learning how to meet it together.
Part 5 of The Prayer We Thought We Knew, a six-part Converging Paths series exploring the Lord’s Prayer through Christian, Jewish, and Buddhist perspectives.
11 Oct 2026
S6E4 The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Ep4 - Forgive Us Our Debts: What Jesus Really Asked Us to Do
What does it really mean to pray, “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”? And did Jesus actually mean that our willingness to forgive others has something to do with our own forgiveness?
Rev. Dr. Eric Elnes is joined by Rabbi Brian Zachary Mayer and Zen Buddhist teacher Esther Freinkel-Tishman for a deeply personal conversation about one of the most challenging lines in the Lord’s Prayer. Together they explore the difference between debts, sins, and trespasses; why forgiveness can be so difficult; and whether forgiving someone means forgetting, excusing the harm, or restoring the relationship.
Along the way, all three share candid stories about the struggle to forgive—including Eric’s experience trying to forgive after suffering abuse, Esther’s reflections on betrayal and hurt, and Brian’s provocative question: What are we getting from not forgiving?
Part 4 of The Prayer We Thought We Knew, a six-part Converging Paths series exploring the Lord’s Prayer through Christian, Jewish, and Buddhist perspectives.
4 Oct 2026
The Prayer We Thought We Knew - Ep 3: Give Us This Day Our Daily Bread — But What If Your Pantry Is Full?
It gets complicated fast. The mysterious Greek word translated “daily,” epiousios, appears almost nowhere else in surviving Greek, leaving open surprisingly different ways of hearing Jesus’ prayer. But the deeper question may be hiding in a word most of us pray straight past: us.
Rev. Dr. Eric Elnes is joined by Rabbi Brian Zachary Mayer and Zen Buddhist teacher Esther Freinkel-Tishman for a conversation that moves from manna in the wilderness to oryoki, the Zen practice of taking only what you need. Along the way, “daily bread” becomes a question about dependence, gratitude, enoughness, and justice: Can I really say I have enough when someone else does not?
Part of The Prayer We Thought We Knew, a six-part Converging Paths series exploring the Lord’s Prayer through Christian, Jewish, and Buddhist perspectives.
27 Sept 2026
The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Ep. 2 - Is Heaven Already Here?
What are we actually asking when we pray, “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”?
In Episode 2 of The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Rev. Eric Elnes is joined by Rabbi Brian Mayer and Zen Buddhist teacher Esther Freinkel-Tishman to explore a deceptively familiar line of the Lord’s Prayer.
Their conversation begins with a surprisingly difficult question: What do we even mean by heaven? Is it somewhere else, something still to come—or a reality already present but not yet fully realized?
From Jesus’ Beatitudes to the Buddhist relationship between samsara and nirvana, the conversation wrestles with a dangerous tension: teachings about surrender and finding heaven amid suffering can awaken us to sacred reality, but they can also become excuses for passivity and acceptance of injustice.
So what does “Thy will be done” actually ask of us?
The discussion moves through Thomas Merton, spiritual uncertainty, surrender, Roman imperial power, Jesus’ alternative kingdom, and the possibility that prayer itself gradually turns us toward participation in the reality for which we pray.
Perhaps heaven is not simply where we hope to go someday. Perhaps the prayer is asking what it would mean for heaven to become more visible here—and what part we might play in bringing it to life.
20 Sept 2026
The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Ep. 1: “Our Father”—Not My Father
Two billion people know the Lord’s Prayer by heart. Almost nobody stops to ask what Jesus hoped would happen inside us when we say, “Our Father.”
In the first episode of The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Rev. Eric Elnes explores the prayer one line at a time with Rabbi Brian Mayer, who says the word “Father” bums him out, and Zen Buddhist teacher Esther Freinkel-Tishman, who finds the whole phrase alien—yet describes her own devotion to prajna, the dark Mother and perfection of wisdom.
Together they ask whether we can call God “Father” without reinforcing patriarchy, what changes when we pray our Father rather than my Father, how the Holy can be both intimately near and utterly beyond us, and what it means to hallow a name for the One who cannot finally be named.
Along the way, they encounter a cross made from a salmon box, the silence at the bottom of a swimming pool, pages of rabbinic commentary on a single letter, the possibility that God can say two things at once, and an ancient understanding of heaven as “between the waters.”
They don’t arrive at agreement. That turns out to be the interesting part.
The Lord’s Prayer may be the best-known prayer in the world. It may also be the prayer we have barely begun to understand.
Guests: Rabbi Brian Mayer and Esther Freinkel-Tishman, Zen Buddhist teacher
Host: Rev. Eric Elnes, Ph.D.
Converging Paths is produced by the Eden Tree Foundation, a 501(c)(3) fostering spiritual growth and interfaith understanding through present and emerging technology.
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5 Apr 2026
Pride vs. Humility: The Spiritual Trap of Being Certain
Pride is usually imagined as swagger, ego, and self-importance. But in this episode, the conversation goes deeper: pride may be the invisible cage of certainty — the belief that we already know, already see, already understand.
In this season finale of Converging Paths, Eric, Brian, and Esther explore the subtle difference between healthy selfhood and spiritual inflation, the danger of humility language for those who have been taught to disappear, and the challenge of becoming “bustable” — able to admit when we are wrong.
A rich and surprising final conversation on pride, humility, curiosity, apology, and wonder.
30 Mar 2026
Lust vs. Love: Desire, Control, and the Longing to Be Seen
What is the difference between lust and love? In this episode of Converging Paths, Rev. Eric Elnes, Rabbi Brian Mayer, and Esther Freinkel-Tishman explore lust not simply as sexual desire, but as grasping, control, and objectification — and love as mutuality, spaciousness, and the freedom to let another person be fully real. Drawing on Christian, Jewish, and Buddhist wisdom, the conversation moves from Bathsheba and the Song of Songs to crushes, covenant, perfectionism, leadership, and the deep human longing to be seen. Thoughtful, funny, and surprisingly practical, this episode uncovers why lust may be far more than temptation — and why love asks something radically different of us.
23 Mar 2026
Gluttony vs. Temperance: Why “More” Is Making Us Miserable — and What Actually Satisfies
Why does “more” so often leave us miserable?
In this episode of Converging Paths, Rev. Eric Elnes joins Rabbi Brian Mayer and Zen teacher Esther Tishman to explore gluttony not as simple overeating, but as the deeper spiritual burden of “too muchness” in a culture that never stops asking for more.
More consumption.
More achievement.
More information.
More certainty.
Drawing from the biblical story of manna in the wilderness, Buddhist teachings about self-forgetting, Jewish traditions of gratitude, and Christian spiritual practice, this conversation reframes gluttony as a loss of trust — and temperance as the rediscovery of sufficiency.
Along the way, a surprising nod to Gilligan’s Island helps illuminate how even paradise can feel like scarcity when we forget what is enough.
You’ll discover:
Why overconsumption often masks anxiety and distrust
How “enoughness” opens the door to generosity and ease
What mindfulness teaches about the “correct portion”
Why temperance is not deprivation — but freedom
What if satisfaction isn’t found in more… but in enough?
16 Mar 2026
Sloth vs. Hope: Why You’re Always Busy — and Still Feel Stuck
Sloth isn’t laziness. It’s avoidance.
In this episode of Converging Paths, Rev. Eric Elnes, Rabbi Brian, and Zen teacher Esther explore how sloth shows up in modern life — not as inactivity, but as distraction, busyness, and spiritual disengagement.
We ask:
What are we busy about?
Why does slowing down feel threatening?
What does Sabbath actually interrupt?
And how is hope practiced — not earned?
Hope, we discover, isn’t wishful thinking about the future. It’s the courage to stop long enough to remember that we are already held.
Part of our ongoing interfaith series on the Seven Deadly Sins and the Lively Virtues.
9 Mar 2026
Wrath vs. Faith: When Anger Hardens — and How to Transform the Fire
We live in a time when anger feels justified — even necessary. But when does anger become wrath?
In this episode, Rev. Eric Elnes, Rabbi Brian Mayer, and Zen teacher Esther Freinkel-Tishman explore the difference between anger that awakens conscience and anger that hardens into self-righteousness.
Drawing from Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and Islamic wisdom, they discuss:
– Why wrath narrows our vision
– The spiritual danger of righteous indignation
– The practice of staying with the “hot potato” of anger
– How small frustrations train us for larger conflicts
– And why faith means trusting that transformation is possible
“Anger can only be measured by love.”
This is not a call to suppress anger — but to transform it.
2 Mar 2026
Envy vs. Generosity: When Comparison Turns Toxic — and How to Flip It
Envy may be the only deadly sin that isn’t any fun at all — but is it always destructive?
In this episode of Converging Paths, Rev. Eric Elnes, Rabbi Brian Mayer, and Zen teacher Myobun Esther explore the subtle ways comparison shapes our lives. From Cain and Abel to contemporary social tensions, they examine how envy can corrode connection — and how generosity, gratitude, and empathetic joy can transform it.
The conversation includes personal stories of envy, reflections on justice and fairness, and practical spiritual insights for turning resentment into growth.
If envy begins in comparison, perhaps healing begins in connection.
Part of the series:
The Inner Work: An Interfaith Exploration of the Seven Deadly Sins and Lively Virtues
20 Feb 2026
Greed vs. Gratitude: Why Wanting More Leaves Us Empty—and Thankfulness Makes Us Whole
Greed is rarely about money alone. It’s about fear, scarcity, and the quiet conviction that what we have—or who we are—is not enough. In this opening episode of The Inner Work, we explore Greed vs. Gratitude through a thoughtful interfaith conversation that reframes one of humanity’s oldest struggles.
A Christian minister, a Jewish rabbi, and a Zen Buddhist teacher come together to examine how greed subtly shapes our desires, our relationships, and even our spiritual lives. Rather than moralizing, this conversation looks honestly at why greed takes hold—and how gratitude emerges across religious traditions as a powerful antidote, not through denial, but through awakening.
This is Episode 37 of the Converging Paths podcast and the first episode in our Inner Work series, an interfaith exploration of the Seven Deadly Sins and the life-giving virtues that help loosen their grip.
Looking for the video version? Visit the Converging Paths Podcast on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@ConvergingPaths-777
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