CX Files features your hosts, CX industry analysts Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan, speaking each week to leading analysts, thinkers, and practitioners focused on managing the Customer Experience (CX). In each episode Mark and Peter talk to their guests about the future of CX, the important trends, and what customers really expect from brands today.
CX Files
Claim This Podcastby Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan
4.7(15 reviews)
428 episodes
Updated Daily
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74
Podcast Authority
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Podcast Overview
CX Files features your hosts, CX industry analysts Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan, speaking each week to leading analysts, thinkers, and practitioners focused on managing the Customer Experience (CX). In each episode Mark and Peter talk to their guests about the future of CX, the important trends, and what customers really expect from brands today.
Language
🇺🇲
Publishing Since
7/25/2018
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Recent Episodes
June 18, 2026
Lara Klick - Klick Advisors - Why Patient Feedback Rarely Leads to Better Care
<p>Lara Klick is the Founder and President of Klick Advisors LLC. She is based in Tampa Bay, Florida, USA.</p> <p>Klick Advisors is a trust-centered consulting practice that helps healthcare leaders and teams navigate high-stakes moments with clarity, empathy, and courage.</p> <p>Lara heard our episode from March where Melanie Disse explored why companies ask for feedback, but don't use it. She suggested that this subject could be explored futther with a focus on healtcare and the Patient Experience - so Mark Hillary called Lara to explore feedback, PX, and designing better healthcare experiences.</p> <p>Lara has already recently published a new book titled 'Simple Doesn't Mean Easy' - entirely focused on improving patient experience.</p> <p><a href= "https://www.linkedin.com/in/lara-klick/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/lara-klick/</a></p> <p><a href= "https://klickadvisors.com/">https://klickadvisors.com/</a></p> <p><a href= "https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Doesnt-Mean-Easy-Improvement/dp/B0GY47KDF2"> https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Doesnt-Mean-Easy-Improvement/dp/B0GY47KDF2</a></p> <p><a href= "https://cxfiles.libsyn.com/cxfiles/melanie-disse-melanie-disse-consulting-acting-on-customer-feedback"> https://cxfiles.libsyn.com/cxfiles/melanie-disse-melanie-disse-consulting-acting-on-customer-feedback</a></p> <p><strong>Summary:</strong></p> <p>Lara Klick, founder of Klick Advisors, discusses the importance of acting on customer feedback, particularly in healthcare. She highlights that healthcare organizations often collect vast amounts of data but struggle to utilize it effectively. Klick emphasizes the need for specialized leaders, a supportive culture, and personalized data delivery. She shares an example where gamification increased nurse compliance from 25% to 75% in three weeks. Klick also stresses the significance of treating complaints as opportunities and co-designing improvements with patients. Her book, "Simple Doesn't Mean Easy," offers insights from her 30 years of experience in healthcare feedback.</p>
June 11, 2026
Guillaume Luccisano - Yuma AI - The Great CX Reset: Why BPOs May Need a New Business Model
<h1><span style="font-size: 14pt;">The BPO Industry Isn't Dying. But It May Need to Reinvent Itself Faster Than Anyone Expected.</span></h1> <h3>Yuma AI CEO Guillaume Luccisano argues that customer experience providers must evolve from labor arbitrage specialists into AI orchestrators and systems integrators—or risk becoming irrelevant.</h3> <p>For years, critics of the business process outsourcing industry have predicted its demise. First it was robotic process automation. Then conversational AI. Then Generative AI. Yet the industry survived every previous wave of disruption because technology changed the way work was delivered rather than eliminating the need for the service itself.</p> <p>In episode 420 of the CX Files, Guillaume talks to Mark Hillary about these changes and how BPOs may need to adapt.</p> <p><a href= "https://www.linkedin.com/in/guillaumeluccisano/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/guillaumeluccisano/</a></p> <p><a href="https://yuma.ai/">https://yuma.ai/</a></p> <p>--------------</p> <p><strong>Summary:</strong></p> <p>Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the impact of AI on the BPO industry, featuring Guillaume Luccisano, CEO of Yuma AI. Luccisano argues that traditional BPO models are outdated, emphasizing AI's potential to automate 100% of customer service within 2-3 years. He highlights Yuma AI's success in deploying AI agents since 2023, achieving automation rates up to 89%. Luccisano predicts a significant shift in the job market due to AI, suggesting BPOs must evolve into systems integrators to survive. He also notes the cost efficiency of AI, with interactions costing under $1 compared to $4-$8 for human agents.</p> <p>----</p> <h1>The BPO Industry Isn't Dying. But It May Need to Reinvent Itself Faster Than Anyone Expected.</h1> <h3>Yuma AI CEO Guillaume Luccisano argues that customer experience providers must evolve from labor arbitrage specialists into AI orchestrators and systems integrators—or risk becoming irrelevant.</h3> <p>For years, critics of the business process outsourcing industry have predicted its demise.</p> <p>First it was robotic process automation. Then conversational AI. Then Generative AI.</p> <p>Yet the industry survived every previous wave of disruption because technology changed the way work was delivered rather than eliminating the need for the service itself.</p> <p>But according to Guillaume Luccisano, founder and CEO of Yuma AI, this time may be different.</p> <p>Speaking on Episode 420 of the CX Files podcast, Luccisano argued that the traditional BPO model—selling customer service through large pools of human agents—is facing a challenge unlike anything it has encountered before.</p> <p>His view is stark: AI is no longer just helping agents do their jobs better. It is increasingly capable of doing the job itself.</p> <p>And if that trend continues, the industry will need to redefine its purpose.</p> <h2>The End of the "Cost Per Interaction" Era</h2> <p>Luccisano's company specializes in AI-powered customer service automation for retail and e-commerce brands. He claims some clients are already automating the vast majority of customer interactions.</p> <p>What has changed, he argues, is that AI is no longer limited to answering questions from a knowledge base.</p> <p>Modern AI agents can access customer records, understand context, follow workflows, execute transactions, and complete tasks.</p> <p>In other words, they are moving beyond information retrieval and into operational execution.</p> <p>This matters because the traditional BPO business model has largely been built around charging for human effort—whether measured in agents, hours, seats, or interactions.</p> <p>If AI can handle increasing volumes of customer contacts at a fraction of the cost, then the economics begin to shift dramatically.</p> <p>A contact that once required several dollars of human labor may eventually be resolved for a few cents in computing costs.</p> <p>Even if those figures are debated, the direction of travel is becoming difficult to ignore.</p> <h2>The Problem Isn't Technology. It's Incentives.</h2> <p>One of Luccisano's most interesting observations is that many outsourcing providers are already talking extensively about AI.</p> <p>The question is whether they are deploying AI to genuinely transform operations or merely adding enough AI to satisfy customer demand while protecting existing revenue streams.</p> <p>That creates an uncomfortable tension.</p> <p>A provider whose business depends on thousands of agents has little incentive to aggressively deploy technology that could reduce the number of agents required.</p> <p>As Luccisano noted, many providers find themselves caught between serving today's business model and preparing for tomorrow's.</p> <p>The challenge is not technical.</p> <p>It is organizational.</p> <p>And perhaps even existential.</p> <h2>Why Investors Are Nervous</h2> <p>The sharp decline in the share prices of several publicly traded CX providers has fuelled speculation about the sector's future.</p> <p>Luccisano believes investors are not simply reacting to hype.</p> <p>They are attempting to price in a future where customer service becomes significantly more automated, more efficient, and therefore less dependent on large labor-intensive operations.</p> <p>Whether investors have overreacted remains open to debate.</p> <p>But the market is clearly asking a difficult question:</p> <p>What happens to a company built around managing tens of thousands of customer service agents when customers increasingly expect AI-driven efficiency?</p> <p>The answer remains uncertain.</p> <p>But it is a question every provider now has to confront.</p> <h2>The Hidden Complexity Most Critics Ignore</h2> <p>To his credit, Luccisano does not dismiss the value that BPOs create today.</p> <p>Customer interactions are only one piece of a much larger operational puzzle.</p> <p>Large CX providers manage compliance requirements, regulatory obligations, security controls, multilingual operations, workforce management, governance frameworks, quality assurance, and complex integrations across dozens of markets.</p> <p>Replacing an individual customer service interaction with AI is one thing.</p> <p>Replacing the entire operational framework surrounding customer service is something else entirely.</p> <p>This is where many simplistic predictions about the "death of BPO" fall apart.</p> <p>The institutional knowledge accumulated by major outsourcing firms still has value.</p> <p>The question is whether that value can be repackaged.</p> <h2>From Outsourcer to Systems Integrator</h2> <p>Perhaps the most important idea from the conversation was Luccisano's belief that the future role of the BPO may look less like a labor provider and more like a systems integrator.</p> <p>Rather than selling headcount, providers could sell expertise.</p> <p>Rather than managing agents, they could manage AI agents.</p> <p>Rather than staffing operations, they could design, orchestrate, govern, optimize, and continuously improve AI-enabled customer experience ecosystems.</p> <p>This is a subtle but profound shift.</p> <p>It moves the provider higher up the value chain.</p> <p>The emphasis shifts from execution to orchestration.</p> <p>From labor to outcomes.</p> <p>From workforce management to intelligent systems management.</p> <p>Ironically, this would bring some BPOs closer to the role that companies like IBM, Accenture, and other major technology integrators evolved into years ago.</p> <h2>A Difficult Transition</h2> <p>The challenge, of course, is that transformation is easier to describe than to execute.</p> <p>Reinventing a startup is one thing.</p> <p>Reinventing a global organization employing hundreds of thousands of people is another.</p> <p>Many of today's largest CX providers are highly successful businesses with established customer relationships and predictable revenue streams.</p> <p>That success can become a barrier to change.</p> <p>The dilemma is obvious.</p> <p>How aggressively should a company invest in technologies that could cannibalize its own business?</p> <p>History suggests that incumbents often struggle with precisely this problem.</p> <h2>The Bigger Question</h2> <p>Perhaps the most controversial part of Luccisano's argument extends beyond outsourcing entirely.</p> <p>He believes AI is creating a broader economic transformation that will affect many knowledge-based professions, not just customer service.</p> <p>Software engineering, consulting, administration, legal services, and customer experience are all beginning to feel the effects.</p> <p>If he is right, then the debate is no longer about whether AI will change customer service.</p> <p>The debate is about how quickly institutions can adapt to a world where intelligence itself becomes abundant and inexpensive.</p> <h2>The Future May Belong to the Adaptable</h2> <p>The most important takeaway from this discussion is not that BPOs are doomed.</p> <p>In fact, Luccisano repeatedly acknowledged that some providers will survive and potentially thrive.</p> <p>But survival may depend on abandoning the assumption that customer service is primarily a labor business.</p> <p>The providers that succeed could be those that become trusted advisors, AI operators, governance experts, and systems integrators.</p> <p>The providers that fail may be those that continue selling people when customers increasingly want outcomes.</p> <p>The outsourcing industry has reinvented itself before.</p> <p>The question now is whether it can do so again—at the speed AI demands.</p>
June 4, 2026
David Rickard - Everest Group - Elevate Ethiopia
<p>David Rickard is a partner at Everest Group. He is based in the UK.</p> <p>David recently visited Ethiopia for the Elevate Africa event. In this conversation with Peter Ryan David gives his take on Ethiopia and Africa more generally for CX and BPO. </p> <p><a href= "https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwrickard/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwrickard/</a></p> <p><a href= "https://www.everestgrp.com/">https://www.everestgrp.com/</a></p> <p><a href= "https://www.weelevateafrica.org/">https://www.weelevateafrica.org/</a></p> <p>---</p> <p data-pm-slice="1 1 []"><strong>Africa</strong> has been talked about as "the next big thing" in outsourcing for at least two decades. South Africa became a serious global CX delivery location. Egypt built a powerful multilingual BPO proposition. Kenya, Ghana, Rwanda, and several other markets are now attracting attention as buyers look beyond the traditional offshore giants.</p> <p>But Ethiopia is starting to enter the conversation in a more serious way.</p> <p><a href="https://cxfiles.libsyn.com/cxfiles" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">In Episode 419 of CX Files</a>, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-ryan-montreal/" target= "_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">Peter Ryan</a> interviewed <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwrickard/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">David Rickard</a>, a partner at <a href="http://everestgrp.com/" target= "_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">Everest Group</a>, shortly after David returned from the <a href= "https://www.weelevateafrica.org/" target="_blank" rel= "noopener noreferrer nofollow">Elevate Africa</a> conference in Ethiopia. The conversation was valuable because David was not offering a promotional pitch. As an analyst, his job is to look at both sides of the equation: the opportunity and the obstacles.</p>
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