Join hosts Matthew Savage and Paul Swanson as they sit down with educators, innovators, and thought leaders from around the world to explore one big question: how do we measure what really matters in schools?
From spreadsheets to gut instincts, accountability to sense-making, fear to curiosity — Data Talks digs into the messy, complex, and deeply human side of educational data. Whether you're a data analyst, a classroom teacher, or a school leader trying to make better decisions, this is your invitation to rethink what data can be.
Welcome to the podcast where data talks, and we listen.
S2 E5: Data and UDL with Jim Gaona Ellis and April Remfrey
How can we shift school data from something we do to students into something we investigate with students?
In this episode, Jim Gaona Ellis and April Remfrey bring Universal Design for Learning into conversation with school data — and find the two are more entangled than most of us realize. From a river of information rushing past every classroom teacher to the ways schools quietly privilege the verbal, the compliant, and the neurotypical as evidence of knowing, they ask what we're unintentionally counting, and who we're leaving out when we do.
But this isn't a story about collecting less. It's about collecting with students rather than on them — kids as experts in themselves, teachers willing to be graded by their own bar charts, and school communities building a common language so that data becomes a shared conversation instead of a private domain. Along the way: salty snacks as wellbeing metrics, nun-counting in Rome, and a gardening metaphor that asks who gets to decide what grows.
If you've ever wondered whether a dashboard can capture a learner, this conversation will leave you with a richer picture of what knowing a student actually requires.
1 Oct 2026
S2 E4: Data and Behavior with Dr. Ross Greene and Tracey Campbell
What if the behavior we're so busy trying to fix is actually the most useful thing a child ever tells us?
In this episode, Dr. Ross Greene and Tracey Campbell take on the B word — behavior — and the data schools build around it. From a corridor conversation that changed the course of a "ringleader's" life to a behavior modifier who noticed the kids he was treating had well-behaved siblings at home, they expose how counting infractions, referrals, and demerits can miss the child entirely.
But this isn't a story about throwing out the data. It's about asking better questions of it — treating concerning behavior as a fever rather than a verdict, getting out in front of problems instead of reacting in the heat of the moment, and solving those problems with kids rather than doing things to them. Because behavior is situational, not identity, and what happened then doesn't have to dictate what happens now.
If you've ever watched a thick file follow a child from classroom to classroom, this conversation will make you rethink how behavior data becomes biography — and what it would take to give every kid more than a single story.
https://livesinthebalance.org/ (https://livesinthebalance.org/)
https://www.togethertransformingbehaviour.com/ (https://www.togethertransformingbehaviour.com/)
24 Sept 2026
S2 E3: Data and AI with Ryan Tannenbaum and Sarbani Bose
What if the AI we're inviting into our schools is an oracle with no clothes?
In this episode, Ryan Tannenbaum and Sarbani Bose take on the collision between artificial intelligence and school data — and refuse to settle for easy answers. From chatbots students fall in love with to models that shift their grading when you add a bit of white space, they expose how superficially impressive these systems can be, and how quietly they can profile, categorize, and automate the very biases we're trying to root out.
But this isn't a conversation about fear. It's about being active rather than passive — interrogating models the way you'd interview a new colleague, demanding explainability before trust, and asking whether AI should be drawing conclusions for us or provoking better questions from us. And underneath it all, a simple reframing: it's the students' data, and schools are only its stewards.
If you've ever wondered whether your school is leading technology or being led by it, this conversation will give you the questions to ask — of your vendors, your leaders, and yourself.
17 Sept 2026
S2 E2: Data and Assessment with Dr. Tom Guskey and Dr. Dylan Wiliam
What if the grade on the report card was never really about learning at all?
In this episode, Dr. Tom Guskey and Dr. Dylan Wiliam — two of the most influential voices in assessment of the past half-century — sit down together to ask why grading reform keeps failing. From zeros handed out as punishment to points awarded for behaving in the library, they expose how grades have quietly become tools of control, compliance, and sorting rather than communication.
But this isn't a conversation about tearing the system down. It's about starting with purpose — what is a grade for, and what decision does it serve? — and then having the courage to follow that question wherever it leads: grading performance rather than students, reporting where a child is now rather than where they were in September, and building a shared sense of quality that students can be brought inside of.
If you've ever suspected that a B-plus tells you almost nothing about what a child actually knows, this conversation will sharpen how you think about grades, evidence, and the trade-offs every assessment system makes whether we admit them or not.
10 Sept 2026
S2 E1: Data and the Whole School with Leigh Miller and La Mor
What if the things a school measures are quietly telling everyone what it really values?
In this episode, Leigh Miller and La Mor — both deputy heads of school — pull back the curtain on what it takes to build a truly whole-school picture of data. From the water we swim in without noticing to the dissonance between a mission statement and a website full of exam results, they ask the uncomfortable questions: what do we collect, what do we overlook, and who gets hurt when we ask and then fail to act?
But this isn't a conversation about spreadsheets. It's about knowing students well enough that they feel known — layering voice, context, and wellbeing alongside achievement, taking parents along on the journey, and having the courage to keep the main thing the main thing.
If you've ever wondered whether the data your school holds up actually reflects the school you say you are, this episode will leave you with more questions than answers — and that's exactly the point.
19 Mar 2026
Ep 10: A Conversation about Data for Good with Dr. Nicole Ponsford and Frances Akinde
What if the data we trust to serve our children is actually failing them?
In this episode, Nic and Frances don't just challenge the way schools collect and use data — they make the case for a revolution. From baseline bias to the hidden incentives that keep marginalized students invisible, they expose how traditional data systems were never designed with every child in mind.
But this isn't a story about what's broken. It's about what happens when you decide to make some good trouble — surfacing hidden voices, handing power back to the people the data is supposed to serve, and daring to measure what actually matters.
If you've ever felt that the numbers don't tell the whole story, this conversation will change the way you think about data, inclusion, and what schools owe every child who walks through their doors.
12 Mar 2026
Ep 9: A Conversation about Data and Coaching with Reyna Lazarou and Jordan Benedict
Data in schools is everywhere. But how often do we slow down long enough to let it actually change anything?
In this episode of Data Talks, Jordan and Reyna, both instructional and learning coaches, take us into what they call "the messy middle" — that space between big-picture school goals and the day-to-day reality of classrooms. Together, they explore what it really means to be a conduit for data: translating, facilitating, and sometimes just sitting alongside teachers as they make sense of what the evidence is telling them.
The conversation moves through rich territory — from the risks and rewards of giving students ownership of their own data, to the confirmation biases that shape which data we trust and which we quietly push aside. Jordan shares how a simple stopwatch transformed a music teacher's rehearsal practice, while Reyna describes the lightbulb moment when a teacher rethought how students receive feedback. Along the way, both make a compelling case for slowing down in a profession that always seems to want everything done yesterday.
At its core, this is a conversation about people, not numbers. About the courage it takes to let data ask uncomfortable questions, and the relationships that make it safe enough to sit with the answers. Whether you're a coach, a teacher, or a school leader, you'll walk away rethinking what data really means — and what it could mean — in your own context.
5 Mar 2026
Ep 8: A Conversation about Data Stories with Priya Ramteke and Ruchi Mainali
What if the way we use data in schools is actually harming the children it's meant to help?
In this episode, we sit down with school leaders Priya and Ruchi to explore the deeply human side of data in education. Starting from the big question — are we truly seeing the whole story of every child? — the conversation moves into questions of shame, identity, and what it means to see a child as more than a label.
Priya and Ruchi share candid stories from the front lines: the student whose chronic lateness turned out to mask a family crisis no one had asked about; the teacher whose eyes changed once she finally saw the full picture of a child she'd written off; and the uncomfortable truth about a culture that tells children they're not worthy of love if they're not a seven.
Together we ask: is data a label — or is it a story? And what happens when schools have the courage to find out?
26 Feb 2026
Ep 7: Data and Safeguarding with Dr. Leila Holmyard, Priya Mitchell and Debbie Downes
Are international schools really as safe as they think they are?
In this episode of Data Talks, safeguarding experts Layla, Priya, and Debbie — all members of the International Task Force for Child Protection — unpack a question most schools struggle to answer honestly: what does our data actually tell us about the safety of our students?
From tracking patterns of identity-based harm across families and grade levels, to navigating data-sharing laws in countries where child protection systems are still developing, the conversation reveals just how much broader "safeguarding data" is than incident reports. The panel explores why a spike in concerns is often a sign things are going right, how anonymous reporting channels can break down the silence around harm, and what it really takes to move from "it could happen here" to "it has happened here — and here's what we're doing about it."
Whether you're a designated safeguarding lead, a school head, or a board member trying to make sense of the numbers on a dashboard, this episode will challenge your assumptions and leave you with practical next steps you can take tomorrow.
19 Feb 2026
Ep 6: A Conversation about Data, Learning and Teaching with Lissie Doyle and Rowena Bracken
What if the most important things happening in your classroom can't be captured in a spreadsheet?
In this episode of Data Talks, we sit down with Lissie Doyle, a Health & Physical Education teacher, and Rowena Bracken, an Arts educator, to explore the messy, beautiful, and often invisible data that shapes learning in their classrooms. From the energy you feel when students are engaged, to the laughter, the frustrations, and the breakthroughs that never make it onto a transcript—Lissie and Rowena challenge us to rethink what counts as evidence of learning.
They dive into the ancient tension between "head knowledge" and "gut knowledge," share practical strategies like using mini whiteboards and video self-reflection, and ask a question every educator should sit with: When we put a number or a grade on something, do we risk making it meaningless?
Whether you teach PE, drama, calculus, or kindergarten, this conversation will make you reconsider what data really is—and what we might be missing when we only look at the numbers.
12 Feb 2026
Ep 5: A Conversation about Data and Analytics with Dr. Damian Bebell and Hywel Benbow
Schools today aren't starving for data—they're drowning in it. So how do you cut through the noise to focus on what actually matters?
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Damian Bebell, an educational researcher from Boston College who has partnered with schools around the world on data analysis, and Hywel Benbow, who leads data strategy for GEMS Education. Together, they challenge the "data-driven" mindset, make the case for being data informed instead, and share hard-won lessons on building the foundations that turn raw numbers into real insights.
From a school that traced declining science scores back to a decision to shrink their labs, to fourth graders whose simple breakfast surveys sparked a citywide nutrition program—Damian and Howell reveal what happens when schools get data right. They also get refreshingly honest about the messy reality: inconsistent student IDs, spreadsheets hidden on laptops, and why 60% of the work is just cleaning up the basics.
Whether you're a solo data lead juggling multiple hats or part of a larger team looking to level up, this conversation offers a practical roadmap for making data part of your school's culture—not a burden on top of it.
5 Feb 2026
Ep 4: A Conversation about Data and Inclusion with Dr. Joan Schumann and Kelvin Wangara
What if the data meant to help students is actually harming them?
In schools around the world, data has become a double-edged sword. Used well, it illuminates paths to growth and ensures every learner gets the support they need. Used poorly, it labels, excludes, and—as one guest puts it—"kills students slowly" by shifting the trajectory of their lives in ways that don't serve them.
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Joan Schumann and Kelvin Wangara, two educators with deep experience in international and U.S. school systems, to explore what makes data inclusive versus exclusive. They unpack the critical pivot from data-for-accountability to data-for-growth, examine how leadership sets the tone for ethical data use, and reveal how empowering students to engage with their own data can transform classrooms.
Whether you're a school leader, teacher, or simply interested in educational equity, this conversation will challenge you to rethink how data shapes the experiences of every student.
29 Jan 2026
Ep 3: A Conversation about Data in the Early Years with Fiona Carter and May Xue
What can a moment of silence tell us about a child's learning?
In this episode, early years educators Fiona Carter and May Xue challenge us to rethink what "data" really means. Moving beyond numbers and checklists, they explore how observations, drawings, conversations—and even what children don't say—can reveal the deeper story of a child's development.
The conversation dives into the Leuven scales of wellbeing and involvement, the art of balancing standardization with individual context, and why "accurate" assessment requires knowing the whole child. Along the way, Fiona and Mae share practical insights on moderation, documentation, and the tension between scanning a moment and screening the bigger picture.
Whether you teach three-year-olds or teenagers, this episode asks a compelling question: what might the rest of education learn from Early Years data practice?
22 Jan 2026
Ep 2: A Conversation about Data Leadership with Bethany and Saleem Blevins
What happens when a second grader looks up at her teacher and says, "I don't want to do this anymore. I want to read"—even though her data says she's not ready?
In this episode, educator duo Bethany and Saleem Blevins share hard-won wisdom from decades of school leadership about what data can tell us—and what it can't. From a pivotal moment with a struggling reader to the uncomfortable truth of putting teachers' test scores on a wall, they reveal how the numbers we chase can either illuminate the path forward or blind us to what matters most.
You'll hear why your sixth graders might be your most valuable consultants, how "leading indicators" can save your team from a year of stress, and what it really takes to build a data culture where curiosity wins over fear.
Whether you're a classroom teacher, school leader, or anyone who's ever wondered if the spreadsheet is telling the whole story—this one's for you.
15 Jan 2026
Ep 1: A Conversation about Data Culture with Loretta Fernando-Smith and David Walton
What happens when we stop talking about the data — and start asking what we truly value enough to notice?
In this episode, we sit down with Dave Walton from Bangkok Patana School and Loretta Fernando Smith from Frankfurt International School Wiesbaden to explore one of the messiest questions in education: how do we build a data culture that sees the whole child?
15 Jan 2026
Pilot: A Conversation about Data in Schools with Chris Smith
In our pilot episode, we’re talking to Chris Smith. Chris is currently a K-12 Learning & Innovation Coach at the American Community School of Abu Dhabi. He is also the founder of Smith Visualizations and Data in Schools, and specializes in transforming complex academic data into actionable information, enabling school leaders and educators to make effective, data-driven decisions.
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