24 Sept 2026
Christ or Collapse: The Case Against Godless Government ft. Dr. David Haskell
Laws are never neutral. Every one of them points in a moral direction — so whose morals should point them?
For two decades Dr. David Haskell was a liberal Christian academic who kept his head down at Wilfrid Laurier University. Then the data stopped cooperating. Study after study showed that Christians who pray, gather weekly, and read their Bibles have unmatched outcomes in marriage, mental health, economic flourishing, and social trust. He followed the evidence, and it cost him his dinner-party invitations. It also produced a 600-page book with over a thousand academic references making the case that Christian norms and values should guide our laws — not because a theocrat says so, but because nothing else works.
In this conversation we cover:
* Why the Church came to believe Christianity was true but not good, and what that silence has cost
* What traditional conservatism actually is: the norms of Christianity applied to governance
* Why you cannot keep the fruit of Christianity without Christians — and why a purely political project is doomed anyway
* The two body blows of the twentieth century: biblical higher criticism and the post-war consensus
* Both ditches of the nationalism debate — a nation is neither melanin nor mere propositions
* What Robert Putnam’s research really says about diversity and social trust
* The receipts: Woodbury’s Missionary Roots of Liberal Democracy and Fogel’s Nobel-winning work on who ended the slave trade
* Stigma, flags, and why the pride flag in every window is a sovereignty claim
* Dr. Haskell’s counsel for what to do now: get off your hands
“Unless you really fear God, you will fear man. But as soon as God is your only fear, no one else can touch you.”
About the guest
Dr. David Haskell is a social scientist and cultural commentator. For over two decades he has been a professor at Wilfrid Laurier University, cross-appointed to religious studies and journalism. He is president of Haskell Strategic Communications, an ordained pastor, and a research fellow with several think tanks. He is married with five children.
Get the book
Christ or Collapse: The Case Against Godless Government (https://www.amazon.ca/Christ-Collapse-Against-Godless-Government/dp/0899004717) (https://www.amazon.ca/Christ-Collapse-Against-Godless-Government/dp/0899004717)
Chapters
00:00 Opening — Psalm 7200:41 Introducing Dr. David Haskell02:01 Life on the “Cultural Endangered List”04:07 A Liberal Christian Follows the Evidence05:55 The Recipe for Flourishing: Stability & Satisfaction08:36 Not Only True, But Good10:52 Willing the Good: Why Silence Is Unloving12:50 The Thesis: Restoring Traditional Conservatism16:28 Can You Have Christian Values Without Christians?21:24 Pragmatic Conservatism & the Pharisee Trap25:55 Laws Are Moral Signallers33:47 How 1960s Multiculturalism Became the Aberration36:30 Higher Criticism & the Post-War Consensus41:00 Nationalism, Young Men & a Country That Hates Them46:00 Ethnos Is Not Melanin50:00 Ordered Loves, Ruth & the Mosaic Code55:00 What the Research Says About Diversity59:00 The Propositional Nation — and Why We Don’t Enforce It63:00 The Receipts: Woodbury, Fogel & Missionary Roots of Liberty68:00 The Cure for Anti-Colonialism Is a Trip to Pakistan70:00 Stigma, Shame & Flags in Every Window74:00 Get Off Your Hands: What to Do Now77:00 Closing — Isaiah 1
Listen and watch
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