Fathom the Mind

About Fathom the Mind

On Fathom the Mind, we explore what cutting-edge science and rigorous contemplative inquiry can tell us about the nature of consciousness. In this exploration, we hope to empower you to live a life of both intellectual integrity and contemplative depth. Despite the depth to which modern scientists have investigated matter and the physical world, their questions about the nature of consciousness remain unsolved. Scientists still don’t know how physical matter relates to conscious experience, and given the intense debate among the scientific community, there seems to be little hope for consensus on the matter anytime soon. And yet, consciousness and subjective experience are central to every human life. Without them, scientists could not even begin their pursuit of empirical inquiry. Despite how they might sound, these questions about consciousness are relevant for all of us—not just trained researchers. As everyday people, our understanding of consciousness has real implications for what we believe our minds are capable of—not to mention what we think it means to be human. On Fathom the Mind, we interview experts in the fields of both modern science and contemplative inquiry in order to explore the nature of consciousness. Interweaving expert knowledge and the personal experiences of guests, we facilitate well-rounded conversations about the nature of consciousness, all while upholding the rigor that scientific inquiry demands. Through this exploration, we hope to demystify and advance the conversation around consciousness in the modern world. We’ll also discuss mind-training tools that not only support our ability to think clearly and scientifically but also help us cultivate a deep sense of well-being. About the Center for Contemplative Research Fathom the Mind. Heal the World.® The Center for Contemplative Research (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=show_description) (CCR) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit religious organization founded in 2020 by scholars B. Alan Wallace, PhD and Eva Natanya, PhD. Vision The founding vision of the CCR posits that the problems of human civilization stem from mental afflictions, and that to address the crises humanity faces and bring about a new era of human flourishing, we must address their root causes in the mind. The CCR sees a future guided by collaborative, cross-cultural, and interdisciplinary inquiry, where scientists and contemplatives work together in mutual respect to fathom the nature and potentials of the mind and seek to discover and implement the sustainable causes of personal and social well-being (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/controlled_term/genuine-well-being-eudaimonia/). Mission The mission of the CCR is to develop, apply, and proliferate methods of contemplative science (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/article/the-nature-of-contemplative-and-scientific-discoveries/)—through expert training, collaborative research, and accessible education—to further the exploration of the nature and potentials of consciousness, deepen empirical understanding of genuine well-being, and offer accessible tools for flourishing to the world. Support our work at: https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/donate/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=show_description (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/donate/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=show_description)

Publisher

Center for Contemplative Research

Category

religion & spirituality · science

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

16 Oct 2025

Latest episode

21 Jul 2026

Latest episodes

4 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   21 Jul 2026

   #004: Christof Koch, PhD

   Our guest on this episode is Christof Koch, PhD. A physicist and neurobiologist, Christof was a professor of biology and engineering for more than 25 years at Caltech. In 2011, he became the Chief Scientist at the Allen Institute for Brain Science in Seattle and in 2015, he became its president. He remains at the Allen Institute, now as a Meritorious Investigator, and is currently the Chief Scientist of the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation in Santa Monica, where he seeks to understand consciousness, its place in nature, and how this knowledge can benefit all of humanity. We are glad to share this energetic conversation between Nick and Christof with you today. As you'll hear, they discuss a wide range of topics—including quantum computing, the neural correlates of consciousness, how mystical experiences come about, and even Christof’s own experience with psychedelics. They also discuss Christof’s qualms with the worldview known as physicalism—sometimes called scientific materialism. Physicalism is still the dominant worldview in academia today, but its limitations are becoming more evident, as Christof and Nick discuss at length in this episode. After decades in neuroscience, Christof finds some of the metaphysical claims of physicalism to be naive. This framework has given us extraordinary explanatory and technological power over the material world, but it’s also left us with a striking lack of consensus about the nature of consciousness. We at the CCR hope that conversations like this one encourage people to consider what might become possible if we carefully relax some of the methodological constraints that have been motivated by the physicalist picture of reality. We hope you'll stick around until the end of this episode, where Christof discusses his plans upcoming plans for a dark retreat: a kind of meditation retreat performed in complete darkness which Nick happened to have done himself. We hope you enjoy and benefit from this conversation. Show Notes Keep up with Christof via his website (https://christofkoch.com/) Read Christof's recent book, Then I Am Myself the World: What Consciousness Is and How to Expand It (https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/christof-koch/then-i-am-myself-the-world/9781541602816/?lens=basic-books) Learn more about Christof's current work at the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation (https://www.tinybluedotfoundation.org/) Learn more about the Allen Institute (https://alleninstitute.org/) Sign up for newsletters (https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/F1GR49c/CCRsignup) from the Center for Contemplative Research Fathom the Mind is produced by the Center for Contemplative Research, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization based in Crestone, Colorado. Visit our site (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=004_christof_koch) to explore our work and access our library with over 70 hours of guided meditations and resources on contemplative practice. As a nonprofit, we rely on the support of generous listeners like you to keep these conversations going. You can find ways to give here (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/donate/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=004_christof_koch). #consciousness #science #neuroscience

2. 

   20 May 2026

   #003: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo

   Our guest on this episode is Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo. Jetsunma is a bhikṣuṇī (which is the Sanskrit term for a fully-ordained Buddhist nun) in the Drukpa Lineage of the Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism. She is an author and teacher, as well as the founder of the Dongyu Gatsal Ling Nunnery in Himachal Pradesh, India. She is well known for having spent twelve years living and practicing in a remote cave in the Himalayas, three of those years in strict meditation retreat. Given Jetsunma’s background, we thought it fitting to bring in CCR Co-founder and Vice President Dr. Eva Natanya as a guest host for this conversation. In addition to her administrative duties, Dr. Natanya serves as a resident teacher at the CCR’s mind lab in Crestone, Colorado, helping to guide dedicated meditators who practice there in long-term, solitary meditation retreat. On a related note, if you’d like to learn more about the CCR’s vision for how this kind of sustained practice might influence the field of contemplative science, please visit our site (linked below). In their dialogue, Jetsunma and Dr. Natanya cover a wide range of topics—including Buddhist monasticism, psychological upheavals in retreat, mind-training in daily life, and the roles of neuroscience and contemplative practice in studying the nature of consciousness. Across all these topics, one can trace a common thread: that true mental balance is accessible to all of us, so long as we can commit to training our minds in whatever circumstances we find ourselves. This dialogue overflows with memorable stories and hard-won wisdom, and we hope you find something today that you can take into your own lived experience. Please enjoy! Show Notes Learn more about Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo via her official site (https://tenzinpalmo.com/) Learn more about Dongyu Gatsal Ling Nunnery by visiting their site (https://dglnunnery.com/) Preorder Jetsunma's new book: Change Your Mind, Change Your Life: The Transformative Power of Lojong Practice (https://www.shambhala.com/change-your-mind-change-your-life.html) In this conversation, Jetsunma mentions a video highlighting a woman who befriends sharks and removes hooks from their mouths, which can be viewed here (https://youtu.be/G8LmxwOgBhA?si=DF9yIs4U76TVcPU-). Sign up for newsletters (https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/F1GR49c/CCRsignup) from the Center for Contemplative Research Fathom the Mind is produced by the Center for Contemplative Research, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization based in Crestone, Colorado. Visit our site (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/) to explore our work and access our library with over 70 hours of guided meditations and resources on contemplative practice. As a nonprofit, we rely on the support of generous listeners like you to keep these conversations going. You can find ways to give here (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/donate/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=003_jetsunma_tenzin_palmo). #meditation #buddhism #spirituality

3. 

   6 Apr 2026

   #002: Prof. Michel Bitbol

   Our guest on this episode is Professor Michel Bitbol. Michel is currently Directeur de Recherche Emeritus at the CNRS / École Normale Supérieure, in Paris, based at the Archives Husserl—a center of research in Phenomenology. His career, which spans the fields of medical science, quantum physics, and philosophy of mind, had its origins in a very simple childhood desire to know, in his words, “the secrets of the universe.” While he knew that was quite an ambitious goal, he also believed it was one he could achieve through studying multiple fields of science. But along the way, there was one basic question that became harder and harder to ignore: What role does consciousness play in scientific research? In pursuit of this question, Michel found great solace in the work of Edmund Husserl and the field of phenomenology. Though phenomenology might seem hard to grasp for the layman, Michel describes it quite simply. At its most basic level, phenomenology teaches us to become aware of—and then question—the conceptual filters through which we make sense of our lived experience. As you’ll hear, Michel thinks this stance is fundamental for new progress not only in modern science, but in philosophy and religion as well. We hope you benefit from this conversation! Show Notes Sign up for newsletters (https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/F1GR49c/CCRsignup) from the Center for Contemplative Research Subscribe to Fathom the Mind on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts! Fathom the Mind is produced by the Center for Contemplative Research, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization based in Crestone, Colorado. Visit our site (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=001_piet_hut) to explore our work and access our library (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/library/) with over 70 hours of guided meditations and resources on contemplative practice. As a nonprofit, we rely on the support of generous listeners like you to keep these conversations going. You can find ways to give here (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/donate/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=001_piet_hut). #science #consciousness #philosophy

4. 

   16 Oct 2025

   #001: Piet Hut

   Our guest on this episode is Professor Emeritus Piet Hut. Piet is renowned in the field of astrophysics, and recently retired as head of Interdisciplinary Studies at the Institute for Advanced Study (IAS) in Princeton, New Jersey—which was once home to great scientists like Albert Einstein. But as you’ll find out, Piet’s interests reach far beyond the big bang and computer models of the universe. Before he was a professional scientist, Piet recounts tinkering with motorcycles and conducting somewhat dangerous chemical experiments at his childhood farm. But by his late teens, he was also studying yogic texts and making weeklong retreats in Trappist monasteries. At the heart of many contemplative traditions, Piet recognized echoes of the scientific method: the process of formulating hypotheses and testing them with replicable experiments. While physicists used this method for making discoveries about matter, contemplatives employed it for making discoveries about the mind. In this conversation, Piet shares his lifelong interest in studying the nature of consciousness—drawing from not only current scientific approaches but also global contemplative theory and practice. Recently, Piet began his most explicit exploration of consciousness yet through his creation of what he calls “FEST” (Fully Empirical Science and Technology): a new research program that aims to “bridge the gap between matter and mind.” In this episode, we discuss this intriguing project at length, how accessible the “objective world” really is, and the fine line between “dogma” and “science.” Please enjoy! Show Notes Piet Hut’s original FEST Log (https://piethut.substack.com/), which Nick references throughout the show. Piet’s new site, festprogram.org (https://festprogram.org), is a treasure trove of resources and thought on the relationship between mind and matter. It houses articles (https://www.festprogram.org/articles) Piet has produced exploring mind and matter, as well as videos (https://www.festprogram.org/videos-1) from presentations, interviews, and panels that he has given over the years. You can find Piet’s bio and additional writings on the Institute for Advanced Studies website (https://www.ias.edu/scholars/hut). Sign up for newsletters (https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/F1GR49c/CCRsignup) from the Center for Contemplative Research Subscribe to Fathom the Mind on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts! Fathom the Mind is produced by the Center for Contemplative Research, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization based in Crestone, Colorado. Visit our site (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=001_piet_hut) to explore our work and access our library (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/library/) with over 70 hours of guided meditations and resources on contemplative practice. As a nonprofit, we rely on the support of generous listeners like you to keep these conversations going. You can find ways to give here (https://centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/donate/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=001_piet_hut). #science #consciousness

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Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

10 ratings

Spotify

5.0 / 5

6 ratings

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