From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht

About From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht

As technology rapidly evolves, the world has undergone a significant transformation. Society has shifted from being human-centered to a complex web of digital automation, AI, and human workers who support it. This rapid innovation outpaces regulations and threatens social mobility. The rise of AI presents a critical challenge: how can businesses and policymakers ensure that AI enhances, rather than hinders, human creativity and innovation? Automating routine tasks could free up people for roles requiring creativity, problem-solving, and emotional intelligence, but it demands a focus on continuous learning and digital literacy. The first season of From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht explores the intersection of AI, work, and society, aiming to shape the future.

Publisher

Phil Fersht

Category

business

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

18 Sept 2024

Latest episode

22 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

52 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   22 Oct 2026

   Phil pods with Pegasystems Founder and CEO Alan Trefler: Agents calling agents is madness

   In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Alan Trefler, Founder and CEO of Pegasystems, for a candid conversation on how enterprises should approach AI without getting caught up in the hype. Alan explains how Pega uses generative AI in two distinct ways: at design time, to help businesses rethink and configure workflows, and at runtime, in a tightly controlled environment focused on predictability, governance, and cost. His view is simple: design the process well with humans involved upfront, then let it execute without unnecessary intervention or runaway token costs. The conversation explores what Alan calls the "token trap." He challenges two increasingly common approaches: using AI to generate huge amounts of difficult-to-maintain code, and deploying networks of agents that create more agents and require additional layers of control. Instead, he advocates a "third way" where one agent understands enterprise workflows, making those workflows agentic while keeping governance built in from the start. Phil and Alan also discuss sovereign versus shared models, AI decision-making, outcome-based pricing, Pega's approach to data and workflows, and why AI conversations are moving beyond IT to the COO and CEO. They close by looking at the bigger picture, including AI regulation, transparency, market valuations, the "SaaS apocalypse" narrative, and the importance of balancing curiosity with healthy skepticism. A thought-provoking conversation for enterprise leaders trying to separate sustainable AI value from the hype. Chapters 00:00 Introduction: Alan Trefler & Pega's Four-Decade Journey 01:51 From Rules & Machine Learning to Agentic Workflows 04:39 Blueprint AI: Describing a Business Problem in Plain Language 06:37 Harnessing AI: Confidence, Guardrails & No Hallucinations 08:30 The Token Economics of Enterprise AI 11:51 Governance: Stopping Agents from Going Rogue 16:54 Phase Two of AI: From Prompts to Real Enterprise Value 20:16 The Most Important Use Case? Telling the Board You Use AI 22:58 Explainability & AI in Regulated Industries 26:02 Where This Is Heading: AI as the Expert Worker 29:15 Don't Treat Claude Like an AGI: Designing for Cost 31:35 Advice for the Next Generation in Tech 35:42 Closing Thoughts Learn More & Connect HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com [https://www.hfsresearch.com/] The podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com [https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/] Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Alan Trefler on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alantrefler From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht. #AI #AgenticAI #EnterpriseAI #Pega #Workflow #AlanTrefler #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

2. 

   9 Sept 2026

   Phil pods with Box co-founder and CEO Aaron Levie: AI agents look more like BPO than software — The next decade of work

   In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Aaron Levie, co-founder and CEO of Box, to explore the next decade of enterprise AI, agents, and knowledge work. Aaron explains why the first phase of AI, largely the chatbot era, delivered incremental productivity gains within existing workflows, while the bigger opportunity requires enterprises to rethink and re-engineer business processes. He argues that this transformation will unfold over the next decade as AI spreads beyond engineering into sales, marketing, HR, customer service, and other functions. Phil and Aaron discuss how this shift will reshape AI spending. As investments grow, Aaron expects ownership to shift increasingly from CIO technology budgets to business leaders, who will weigh people, tokens, and outcomes much as they once evaluated BPO services. They also explore evolving pricing models and why enterprises need to separate corporate intelligence and IP from individual AI models, maintaining the flexibility to switch models as the technology advances. At the heart of the conversation is enterprise intelligence. Aaron explores how agents can finally reason over vast amounts of unstructured corporate data, why systems of record such as CRM and ERP become even more valuable in an agentic world, and what it means to "build something agents want" when agents increasingly influence discovery and decision-making. They also examine the future of professional services, why forward-deployed and AI-native service providers can deliver larger projects faster, and the talent required to succeed. Aaron closes with lessons on separating genuine transformation from hype and Advice for founders: focus on large, enduring problems with strong technical moats and choose your founding team carefully. Chapters 0:00 Meet Aaron Levie, co-founder and CEO of Box 2:03 Mentors, and learning from the history of software 3:39 Where humans enter the loop now 6:58 Re-engineering the workflow for agents 8:01 Why AI shouldn't be funded from the IT budget 12:07 How will AI actually get priced? 14:51 Frontier models vs private and sovereign 19:03 Keeping your corporate knowledge out of the model 19:55 Unstructured data: the next Databricks moment 23:12 Do apps still matter when agents use the APIs? 26:49 Build something agents want 28:14 Consulting and services in the agent era 32:00 Talent: making the whole firm expert at agents 35:01 Crossing the chasm: telling hype from real 40:50 Advice to young entrepreneurs Learn More & Connect HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Aaron Levie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronlevie From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht. #AI #EnterpriseAI #AgenticAI #FutureOfWork #Box #AaronLevie #PhilFersht #HFSResearch

3. 

   2 Sept 2026

   Phil pods with KPMG Global Head of AI and Innovation Steve Chase: The AI leaders are materially breaking away from the pack

   In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Steve Chase, Global Head of AI and Innovation at KPMG, for a candid conversation on where enterprise AI really is right now, and why this moment is different from every hype cycle that came before it. Steve traces KPMG's AI journey from its pre-generative "Lighthouse" incubator through the ChatGPT moment that convinced the firm this pace would be genuinely disruptive across audit, tax, and advisory, and every client sector. His read on today: we've moved out of the AI phase and into the agentic phase, an acceleration validated in the data, where harness layers are unlocking agents and pilots are moving strongly into production. And his sharpest observation: the leaders who were already ahead are now materially breaking away from the pack, and depending on where you sit, you might not even realize it's happening until you feel far behind. Phil and Steve dig into the questions leaders are wrestling with. Why the payoff won't show up as a cost differential but as growth. Why the CFO conversation shifts the moment AI is framed as a growth-and-market-share narrative rather than a technology cost, and why CFOs, told that story, become the strongest advocates in the building. The "foot on the gas, foot on the brake" reality of token economics, and why CEO engagement is the single biggest unlock. KPMG's data shows programs with a directly engaged CEO are roughly 3x more successful. The conversation also gets into the human core of transformation. Why working with agents is a genuinely different skill from working with chatbots or delegating to employees, the reskilling KPMG has built on three-plus years of investment, and the crucial context layer, the crown jewels of the organization, and why falling behind on access pushes employees to shadow AI that exfiltrates your data. They land on what stays human: client trust, judgment, and the growing premium on sounding human in a world of LLM-written sameness. Finally, Phil and Steve look ahead: services-as-software as a human transformation driven by technology, why enterprise debt is really a culture-and-talent problem more than a process problem, and the coming "Cambrian explosion" of discovery across healthcare, manufacturing, and beyond. This is AI 2.0, less about job losses, more about job change, speed, and the will to rewire the organization, and why it may be the most exciting time in business in a generation. Chapters: 00:00 Intro: Steve Chase and KPMG's AI journey 04:31 Out of the AI phase, into the agentic phase 06:14 Why leaders are materially breaking away from the pack 09:16 CFOs, consumption pricing, and framing AI as growth 13:54 Why the CEO's engagement is the 3x unlock 19:43 Federated pilots and rewiring the workforce 25:17 The context layer and the shadow AI risk 26:03 Customer experience and the premium on sounding human 32:04 Services-as-software, enterprise debt, and the Cambrian explosion 35:12 AI 2.0: not job losses but job change Learn more & connect HFS Research:  https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast:  https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Steve Chase on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-chase From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht. #AI #EnterpriseAI #AgenticAI #FutureOfWork

Who has been a guest on From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht

Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.

• Ethan Mollick
• May Habib
• Scott Galloway

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

1 ratings

Spotify

4.8 / 5

6 ratings

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Guest appearances

Does not typically book guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.

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