It Shouldn't Be This Hard

About It Shouldn't Be This Hard

The podcast that dives deep into the messy, meaningful work of responsible business and conscious leadership. Learn more at: grounded.world/itshouldntbethishard (https://grounded.world/itshouldntbethishard). Hosted by Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck, co-founders of Grounded – and joined by Gaia, their brilliantly provocative AI sidekick – this show explores what it really takes to drive change from the inside out. Are you a founder or social entrepreneur who’s gone all-in to challenge the status quo? Maybe with a few scars and stories to show for it? Or maybe you’re a marketing, brand, sustainability, or CSR leader at a big-name company trying to close the gap between good intentions and real impact, and finding it harder than it should be. Perhaps you're a thought leader, expert, or author with powerful lived experience to share. Whoever you are, if you're grappling with how to do the right thing (and do things right), you're in the right place. We bring you candid conversations, bold ideas, and practical insights from people who are walking the talk (or trying their damnedest). And hey – if that sounds like you, Phil and Heidi would love to have you on the show. You can apply to be a guest at help@legacypodcasting.com (mailto:help@legacypodcasting.com). Be sure to follow the podcast so you never miss a new episode!

Publisher

Phil White & Heidi Schoeneck

Category

business · education

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

23 Jun 2025

Latest episode

8 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

19 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   8 Oct 2026

   Scaling Impact Shouldn't Be This Hard | Alessa Berg, Tessa Clarke & Heather Terry (Part 2)

   Building a purpose-driven business is hard. Scaling one is harder. In Part 2 of this two-part episode, three women founders share hard-won lessons on growing a social enterprise without losing the mission: how to price against “free,” survive multi-year corporate sales cycles, stay profitable, and keep going when systems change feels slow. You’ll hear from Tessa Clarke, Founder of Olio, the food-sharing app fighting food waste; Alessa Berg, Founder of Top Tier Impact, a global impact investing network spanning 80+ countries; and Heather Terry, Founder of GoodSAM Foods, an ethical, sustainable snack brand with zero middlemen in its supply chain. Tessa explains why Olio’s biggest competitor isn’t another startup but the bin, and how a “never be beaten by the bin” pricing philosophy shapes the entire business model. Heather makes the case that cheap prices hide real costs (“someone is suffering for you to buy it at that price”) and why she’d rather scale slowly and profitably than fast and fragile. Alessa shares how to handle the moment your company outgrows its systems, and why the thinking behind AI tools matters more than the tools themselves. If you’re a social entrepreneur, impact founder, or sustainability leader trying to grow a business that does good and makes money, this episode gives you practical frameworks and honest advice from founders who’ve done it. What You’ll Learn How to compete when your real competitor is free, convenient, and doing nothing at all What to expect when selling to large corporates, including sales cycles of three to eight years Why “no impact without sales” should shape every mission-driven business Why profitable, slow growth can disrupt a broken industry more than fast scaling How to recognize when your business has outgrown its processes, and what to do next How to use AI tools effectively by focusing on the logic and thinking behind them Why community and belonging are essential, though unpriced, assets for founders The financial basics every impact entrepreneur needs to know How to sustain yourself through the long game of systems change Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: from founding an impact business to scaling one 01:05 – Pricing a sustainability service when waste is “too cheap” 02:20 – The downside of selling to large corporates 02:53 – The hidden cost of cheap products 03:25 – Profit isn’t the enemy of the mission: “no impact without sales” 04:30 – Outgrowing your systems as you scale 05:17 – Using AI with intention: cognition over tools 05:53 – Advice for social entrepreneurs 06:15 – Systems change takes decades, not years 06:25 – Find your community: roots that make your branches grow 07:30 – Know your numbers: why finances are the lifeblood of your mission 08:00 – Closing About the Show IT SHOULDN’T BE THIS HARD by grounded is a podcast show for business leaders, social entrepreneurs, and sustainability professionals navigating the messy meaningful work of responsible business and conscious leadership. Co-hosted by Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck, each episode brings together social impact entrepreneurs, corporate changemakers, and sustainability leaders -who've been there and are doing it- for lively, playful (and sometimes provocative) conversations about why it's so hard to do the right thing (and do the right things). This episode was produced and narrated by Paloma Jacome. Additional Resources 🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded's sustainability AI: (https://grounded.world/gaia)https://grounded.world/gaia (https://grounded.world/gaia) 🌍 Get Grounded: (https://grounded.world/)https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/) #Sustainability #ImpactInvesting #FoodWaste #SocialEntrepreneurship #WomenFounders #Business #ItShouldntBeThisHard

2. 

   17 Sept 2026

   Scaling Impact Shouldn't Be This Hard | Alessa Berg, Tessa Clarke & Heather Terry (Part 1)

   Three fierce women founders join us on IT SHOULDN’T BE THIS HARD, all kicking ass across different industries: food waste, capital flows for a new regenerative economy, and ethical, sustainable snacking. Tessa Clarke (Founder of Olio), Alessa Berg (Founder of Top Tier Impact), and Heather Terry (Founder of GoodSAM Foods) aren't waiting for the system to get fairer, cheaper, or more rational before they act. They're building what needs to exist themselves. Tessa Clarke grew up on a farm where food waste "was pretty much criminal" which is exactly why, on moving day, she resorted to what she calls cross-border vegetable smuggling rather than let the removal men throw out perfectly good food. That was the lightbulb moment for Olio, now a neighbor-to-neighbor app that's moved 150 million meals' worth of food. Alessa Berg built Top Tier Impact's 80-country ecosystem by trusting what she calls her own "internal coding" instead of forcing her path into a five-year plan. And Heather Terry built Good Sam Foods around a simple, radical bet: cutting out the middlemen and prioritizing farmers. This episode gets into the reframes that changed how each of them operates: why Olio stopped talking about saving the planet and started talking about what's in it for you, the "drama triangle" Alessa uses to catch herself before slipping into victim mode, and Heather's belief that "weaponizing cash" by building a company that's profitable and does right by its supply chain is can be more disruptive than protest. Key Takeaways Why environmental messaging failed to drive action for Olio and what actually worked instead How Olio turned its biggest weakness (food vanishing off the app in seconds) into its main revenue driver Why treating corporate partners as paying clients, not donors, is what unlocked Olio's supply side How to use the "drama triangle" (victim, hero, perpetrator) to catch yourself before you play the victim Why Alessa trusts "emergence" over rigid five-year plans and what that looks like in practice How Top Tier Impact operationalizes "take responsibility for your reality" as a company-wide rule Why Good Sam Foods runs its entire supply chain with zero middlemen How cutting out middlemen directly improves the economics of smallholder farmers and indigenous communities Why Heather sees profitability itself as a form of protest against a broken system How scaling slowly and staying profitable can undermine a broken industry faster than scaling fast Timestamps 00:00 – Three founders, three industries, one instinct 01:30 – Tessa Clarke: growing up where food waste was "pretty much criminal" 02:00 – "Why isn't there an app for this?" Olio is born 02:44 – Alessa Berg: trusting her own "internal coding" 03:15 – Building Top Tier Impact's 80-country ecosystem 03:49 – Heather Terry: backing smallholder farmers, cutting the middlemen 04:21 – The Reframe: what changed how each founder operates 04:30 – Olio's pivot: from "save the planet" to "what's in it for you" 05:06 – Alessa's framework: escaping the victim-hero-perpetrator triangle 05:45 – Heather's reframe: "weaponizing cash" as protest 06:10 – The Reframe, in practice 06:31 – Olio's 100,000 volunteers and the supply-side fix 07:35 – TTI's rule #1: take responsibility for your reality 07:59 – Good Sam's slow, profitable scale as "system sabotage" 08:36 – Closing + what's coming in Part 2 About the Show IT SHOULDN’T BE THIS HARD by grounded is a podcast show for business leaders, social entrepreneurs, and sustainability professionals navigating the messy meaningful work of responsible business and conscious leadership. Co-hosted by Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck, each episode brings together social impact entrepreneurs, corporate changemakers, and sustainability leaders -who've been there and are doing it- for lively, playful (and sometimes provocative) conversations about why it's so hard to do the right thing (and do the right things). This episode was produced and hosted by Paloma Jacome. Additional Resources 🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded's sustainability AI: (https://grounded.world/gaia)https://grounded.world/gaia (https://grounded.world/gaia) 🌍 Get Grounded: (https://grounded.world/)https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/) #Sustainability #ImpactInvesting #FoodWaste #SocialEntrepreneurship #WomenFounders #Business #ItShouldntBeThisHard

3. 

   9 Jul 2026

   The Fox in the Hen House | Matthew McCarthy (Part 2)

   In Part 2 of this two-part conversation, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck continue their conversation with Matthew McCarthy, former CEO of Ben & Jerry's, moving from the false choice of purpose vs. profit into some of the thorniest territory in modern leadership: anti-woke backlash, the monetization of conflict, and the quiet collapse of trust underneath it all. Matthew opens up about "authorizing yourself" instead of waiting for permission, then turns to what we call "wokery pokery" — the way both sides of the culture war often care more about conflict than the actual issue at stake. From there, the conversation moves through the fear of being publicly called out, why hyper-transparency has made holding statements obsolete, and why trust may be the single biggest driver of business performance. Matthew closes with a candid look at the hardest part of leadership: not choosing between right and wrong, but choosing between two things that both hurt and why compassion for the people around you (including the ones treating you badly) might be the most underrated leadership skill there is. Key Takeaways Why "authorizing yourself" is more important than waiting for permission from your boss or company How delegating responsibility upward quietly drains your own agency Why most "toxic" people are engaging in toxic behavior, not being toxic people The difference between the anti-woke movement's stated concerns and its actual function: monetizing conflict Why holding statements and PR positioning no longer work in an age of hyper-transparency Why "the coefficient of trust" may be the most important number a leader never measures The direct link between organizational trust and financial performance Why "check your values at the door" is a dangerous myth The hardest part of leadership: choosing between two painful options, not right vs. wrong 0:00 — Introduction: purpose, profit, politics 1:20 — Avoiding sticks vs. moving toward carrots 3:00 — "Authorize yourself" 5:29 —Wokery Pokery — has "woke" gone too far, or worked too well? 4:57 — "You are what you do, not what you say" — the holding statement is dead 5:16 — Walking the talk vs. inviting criticism 5:39 — The Coefficient of Trust — "a moment of manufactured terror" 6:16 — Trust as fuel: why low trust correlates with poor results 6:53 — "Check your values at the door" is a dangerous distortion 8:21 — The case for "real talk" about the human cost of leadership decisions 8:49 — Closing: build trust, make trade-offs, keep moving About the Show It Shouldn't Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers navigating the messy intersection of purpose and performance — exploring why doing the right thing in business can feel far harder than it should. Additional Resources 🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded's sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia (https://grounded.world/gaia) 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/) #Sustainability #Leadership #BenAndJerrys #Trust #AntiWoke #Business #ItShouldntBeThisHard

4. 

   18 Jun 2026

   The Fox in the Hen House | Matthew McCarthy (Part 1)

   In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck are joined by Matthew McCarthy, former CEO of Ben & Jerry’s, to challenge one of the most deeply ingrained beliefs in business: that purpose and profit are competing priorities. Drawing on decades of experience leading one of the world's most outspoken purpose-driven brands, Matthew McCarthy argues that many of the biggest barriers to growth, trust, and impact aren't coming from competitors, regulators, or changing consumer expectations. They're coming from inside the organization. From the false choice between doing well and doing good to the growing crisis of consumer trust, this conversation explores why businesses so often become the fox in their own henhouse, creating the very obstacles they're trying to overcome. Along the way, Matthew unpacks why consumers shouldn't be blamed for problems businesses have the power to solve, why leaders spend too much time debating whether instead of focusing on how, and what it takes to build organizations capable of creating both impact and value. Key Takeaways Why the "purpose vs. profit" debate may be setting businesses up to fail How organizations become their own biggest obstacle to growth and sustainability Why consumers shouldn't be blamed for problems businesses can solve What declining trust signals about the future of business How debating whether to act drains energy and momentum Why "scale" means something different to everyone in the room The relationship between purpose, profit, and long-term value creation Why leaders can't outsource sustainability to founders, legacy, or brand DNA Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction: The fox in the henhouse 00:45 – Why the purpose vs. profit debate is broken 02:15 – How businesses become their own worst enemy 03:40 – The false choice between growth and impact 05:05 – "The fact that lots of products suck..." 06:20 – Consumer trust, accountability, and changing expectations 07:15 – Stop debating whether. Start focusing on how. 08:10 – Why everyone hears "scale" differently 09:05 – Purpose, profit, and long-term value 09:45 – Closing reflections About the Show It Shouldn't Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers navigating the messy intersection of purpose and performance — exploring why doing the right thing in business can feel far harder than it should. Additional Resources 🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded's sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia (https://grounded.world/gaia) 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/) #Sustainability #Leadership #BenAndJerrys #Business #ItShouldntBeThisHard

5. 

   28 May 2026

   Doing the Right Thing Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Jeffrey Hollender (Part 2)

   In Part 2 of this conversation, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck continue their discussion with Jeffrey Hollender — Founder of Seventh Generation, professor at New York University Stern School of Business, social entrepreneur, and author of Built for a Better World  to explore the deeper systems, incentives, and leadership challenges that make responsible business so difficult to sustain. While Part 1 unpacked Jeffrey’s personal journey building (and eventually losing) Seventh Generation, Part 2 zooms out to examine the broader forces shaping business behavior today: political influence, broken incentives, governance structures, internal culture, and the uncomfortable reality that doing the right thing often still comes with risk. Jeffrey reflects on the early struggles of Seventh Generation, why the company’s growth accelerated when sustainability became connected to personal health and wellness, and why movements like B Corp still haven’t reached the scale needed to transform business at large. But perhaps most importantly, this conversation explores the human side of leadership: Why humility matters more than ego. Why radical transparency terrifies companies. And why businesses can’t close the gap between intention and execution without fundamentally changing how they operate. Built for a Better World explores Jeffrey Hollender’s journey building Seventh Generation and the lessons learned navigating the tension between purpose, profit, leadership, and systemic change. Grab your own copy here: (https://jeffreyhollender.net/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)https://jeffreyhollender.net/ Key Takeaways: Why business is both a driver of solutions and a major contributor to systemic problems The role storytelling and internal culture play in scaling impact How market incentives shape whether sustainable businesses succeed or fail Why Seventh Generation reframed sustainability around personal health and wellness Jeffrey Hollender’s perspective on the B Corp movement Why larger corporations still resist accountability and transparency frameworks The overlooked business case for sustainability, diversity, and stakeholder governance Why humility is essential for responsible leadership What “radical transparency” actually looks like inside organizations Why purpose-driven businesses struggle when systems still reward short-term profit Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: the deeper systems shaping business behavior 00:45 – Why business is both the solution and part of the problem 01:30 – The role storytelling plays in purpose-driven organizations 02:15 – Why values often collapse under external market pressures 02:50 – How Seventh Generation repositioned sustainability around health and wellness 04:15 – Jeffrey Hollender’s perspective on the B Corp movement 05:10 – Why businesses still struggle to understand the business case for sustainability 06:05 – Diversity, governance, and systems thinking in leadership 06:50 – Words of wisdom for leaders trying to do the right thing 07:15 – Why humility and radical transparency matter more than ever 07:55 – Closing reflections on rebuilding business systems differently About the Show: It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like -real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can - (and must) coexist. Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded’s sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/) #Sustainability #Business #Leadership #ESG #Bcorp #SocialEntrepreneurship #ItShouldntBeThisHard

6. 

   12 May 2026

   Doing the Right Thing Shouldn’t Be This Hard| Jeffrey Hollender (Part 1)

   What happens when the company you built to change the world starts drifting away from the very values it was founded on? In Part 1 of this conversation, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck are joined by Jeffrey Hollender — co-founder of Seventh Generation, professor at New York University Stern School of Business, social entrepreneur, and author of Built for a Better World — to unpack the uncomfortable realities behind building a purpose-driven business inside systems that are designed to reward the opposite. Jeffrey reflects candidly on the rise of Seventh Generation, the mistakes he made while scaling the business, and the painful realization that purpose alone isn’t enough to protect a mission. But this episode goes beyond one company’s story. It explores the deeper structural tension sitting at the heart of responsible business today: Why do so many businesses want to do the right thing… yet still struggle to do the right things? From investor misalignment and growth addiction to systems thinking, leadership consciousness, and the growing fear around speaking publicly about sustainability, this conversation unpacks why purpose-driven business can feel so difficult — even for the pioneers who helped define it. Key Takeaways: - What Jeffrey Hollender learned after being fired from Seventh Generation - Why mission-driven businesses often break when values collide with growth pressure - How investor misalignment can slowly erode a company’s purpose Why “doing the right thing” doesn’t always translate into “doing the right things” - The role systems thinking plays in sustainability leadership -Why businesses need cultures built around consciousness, not just compliance - How political and cultural pressure is fueling sustainability silence and green-hushing - Why community is essential for sustaining purpose-driven leadership Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: building purpose-driven brands inside broken systems 01:00 – Jeffrey Hollender’s journey as a lifelong social entrepreneur 02:32 – The painful reality of getting fired from the company you built 05:10 – Being “ahead” without bringing people along 07:37– Why hiring and cultural alignment matter more than strategy 10:05 – Why business systems often reward unethical behavior 12:45 – Sustainability as an endless hurdle race 14:28 – Why business isn't stepping up 16:40 – The gap between doing the right thing vs. the right things 17:14 – Why not all sustainability actions are created equal About the Show: It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers navigating the messy intersection of purpose and performance — exploring why doing the right thing in business can feel far harder than it should. Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded’s sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ #Sustainability #Business #ClimateLeadership #ESG #SocialEntrepreneurship #JeffreyHollender #SeventhGeneration #ItShouldntBeThisHard

7. 

   22 Apr 2026

   Giving Just 1% Shouldn't Be This Hard | Kate Williams

   Every year on Earth Day, businesses around the world make commitments, launch campaigns, and announce new sustainability goals. What happens when the Earth Month celebrations pass? Because the real test of sustainability isn’t what gets said on April 22nd—it’s what actually gets done on April 23rd, and every day after that. In this special Earth Day episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck sit down with Kate Williams, CEO of 1% for the Planet, to unpack one of the most quietly powerful models in climate action today: what happens when businesses commit to just 1% - consistently, transparently, and in community. Because simple actions. Done repeatedly. In community. isn’t just the 1% For The Planet philosophy, it’s a theory of change that has already driven over $800M in environmental giving. But this conversation goes deeper than giving. It’s about the structural barrier holding sustainability back: the intention–action gap. Why do so many businesses care but still hesitate to act? Kate breaks down the tension at the heart of the system: - The pressure to be perfect vs. the need to start - The fear of criticism vs. the urgency of transparency - Greenwashing on one side, green-hushing on the other and a growing silence in between And in that silence, progress stalls. This episode explores why progress (not perfection) is the only model that scales, and why aggregated small actions are often more powerful than isolated big ones. Because the economy impacts the planet—full stop. The question is whether businesses are willing to act on that consistently enough for it to matter. This is not about Earth Day as a moment. It’s about Earth Day as a practice. Key Takeaways: - Why the intention–action gap is now one of the biggest blockers in sustainability execution - How the 1% model turns incremental commitments into over $800M in verified environmental impact - Why “progress over perfection” is a strategic advantage, not just a mindset - How greenwashing fear and green-hushing are slowing down real climate action - What it takes to build movements that scale beyond awareness into action - Why consistency—not intensity—is what actually drives systemic change Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: The intention–action gap in sustainability 01:10 – Why businesses are stuck between intention and execution 03:40 – Kate Williams on the 1% model and $800M in impact 04:10 – The theory of change: simple actions, done repeatedly, in community 04:45 – Greenwashing vs green-hushing: the new sustainability paralysis 05:00 – Why progress over perfection is the only scalable path 06:15 – Building movements through transparency and participation 07:00 – Closing reflection: what actually drives change at scale About the Show: It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like—real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can—and must—coexist. Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/ 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ #EarthDay #SustainabilityLeadership #PurposeDrivenBusiness #ClimateAction #ESG #ItShouldntBeThisHard #1PercentForThePlanet #EarthDayEveryDay

8. 

   9 Apr 2026

   It Shouldn't Be This Hard | Earth Day Special ft. Kathleen Rogers, President of EarthDay.org

   Every April 22nd, a billion people across 193 countries do something for the planet. Companies make bold commitments. Partnerships get announced. And then April 23rd arrives. For businesses building sustainability into how they actually operate (not just how they communicate) that day after is the real test. Because the ROI of Earth Day isn't in the moment. It's in the partnerships that outlast the press release, the operational changes that compound year over year, and the culture that doesn't need a calendar reminder to care. In this special Earth Day episode of It Shouldn't Be This Hard, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck sit down with Kathleen Rogers, President of EarthDay.org — one of the most recognized environmental platforms on the planet — to ask the question she returns to every single year: What do we do the day after Earth Day? From the paradox of growing awareness alongside growing powerlessness, to the equity arguments hiding inside the word "environment," to what it actually takes to keep a billion-person movement going — this is a conversation about turning caring into action. Not just on April 22nd. Every day. Key Takeaways: Why awareness and powerlessness are growing at the same time and what that means for anyone trying to drive change How redefining "environment" as what surrounds you reframes sustainability as an equity issue, not just an ecological one Why the antidote to greenwashing fear isn't a better communications strategy How incremental progress beats absolutism when building movements that last Why the intention–action gap is as much a strategic problem as a communications one What "the day after Earth Day" reveals about the difference between moments and movements Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: What do we do the day after Earth Day? 01:08 – The paradox of awareness: more knowledge, more powerlessness 03:50 – What does the ‘environment’ actually mean? And how a simple definition can change everything 05:17 – Climate equity: who bears the real burden of environmental harm 05:50 – Why companies are afraid to talk about climate change 06:30 – Urban tree planting, community tools, and building the tent for the ‘do-gooders’ of the world 07:26 –The billion-person challenge: keeping momentum after April 22nd 08:15 – Closing wisdom: nature as miracle, protector, and source of hope About the Show It Shouldn't Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like: real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can — and must — coexist. Hosted by Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck, the show explores how sustainability can drive business performance, especially under real commercial pressure. Season 2 continues those conversations at the intersection of purpose and performance — because the work matters every day, not just one day a year. Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/ (https://grounded.world/gaia/) 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/) #EarthDay #Sustainability #ESG #ClimateAction #ItShouldntBeThisHard #EarthDayEveryDay

9. 

   25 Feb 2026

   It Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Season 1 Reflection with Starbucks, Plastic Bank, EarthDay.org, PMI & More

   After a full season of conversations with leaders from Starbucks, Plastic Bank, Earth Day Organization, Philip Morris International, BIGGBY Coffee, Divert, and The Washington Post one theme kept surfacing: If so many people care about sustainability… why is doing the right thing in business still so hard? In this special Season 1 reflection episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard (https://www.youtube.com/@itshouldntbethishard), co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck step back from the individual interviews to connect the patterns behind ESG, systems change, sustainable supply chains, and purpose-driven leadership. This is a compilation episode revisiting the most powerful insights from across Season 1 and asking what they reveal about the intention–action gap inside modern business. From corporate accountability to empathetic capitalism, this conversation explores why progress stalls and what actually makes sustainable transformation possible under real commercial pressure. Key Takeaways: Why sustainability struggles are rarely about intention and almost always about systems design How shareholder pressure, risk aversion, and legacy operating models create barriers to ESG progress Why extractive business models create long-term instability in global supply chains How behavior change scales when sustainability is operationalized Why shame and cancel culture can slow corporate transformation and curiosity unlocks collaboration How small, visible actions rebuild agency and close the intention–action gap Featured Voices from Season 1: David Katz (Founder & CEO of Plastic Bank) on corporate adaptation and risk Jenny Morgan (Author of ‘Cancel Culture in Climate’) on cancel culture and “pretty good” sustainability. Karimah Hudda (Founder of illumine.earth) on conformity inside large institutions. Bob & Michelle Fish (Co-Founders of One BIGG Island in Space) on direct trade and empathetic capitalism. Amelia Landers (Former VP of Innovation, Starbucks) on designing convenience into sustainable behavior. Jennifer Motles (Chief Sustainability Officer of Philip Morris International) on driving change inside controversial industries. Kathy Baird (Former Chief Communications Officer of The Washington Post) on apathy and civic disengagement. Hilary (Former CMO of Divert) on food waste and operational sustainability. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: Why “doing the right thing” still feels hard 00:40 – Season 1 patterns and the intention–action gap 01:15 – Plastic Bank: Risk, shareholders, and adaptation 03:25 – Cancel Culture in Climate: Systems built to punish risk 05:10 – Systems change and institutional conformity 06:40 – BIGGBY Coffee: Extractive vs empathetic capitalism 11:50 – Starbucks: Designing sustainable behavior 14:25 – Come into Conversations with Curiosity 15:00 – PMI: Courage inside controversial industries 16:20 – Overwhelm, apathy, and disengagement 17:45 – Divert: Small actions that sustain momentum against climate change 19:05 – Closing reflections: It shouldn’t be this hard Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/ (https://shorturl.at/fw9tF) 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world (https://grounded.world) - - - It Shouldn’t Be This Hard (https://grounded.world/resources/#Podcast) is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like: real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist. Hosted by Phil and Heidi, the show explores how sustainability can drive business performance especially under real commercial pressure. Season 1 brought together global brands, social enterprises, and systems thinkers to challenge extractive models and rethink the future of responsible business.

10. 

    4 Dec 2025

    Coffee and Convenience Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Amelia Landers

    People don’t want to “be sustainable”... and Starbucks learned that the hard way. In this episode of  It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we learn from Amelia Landers, VP of Innovation at Starbucks, for a rare inside look at how one of the world’s most iconic brands is trying to close the intention–action gap for convenient -yet conscious- coffee. For Starbucks, convenience is everything. Millions of people move through stores every day with deeply ingrained habits, emotional attachments, and morning rituals that are hard to change. Yet these same rituals are where some of the biggest opportunities for sustainable behavior change actually live. Amelia Landers unpacks what she’s learned designing sustainability inside a global retail ecosystem where speed, consistency, and emotional comfort often outrank environmental intent. From reusable cup systems to packaging innovation, she shares how Starbucks is navigating circularity, consumer psychology, and systems change in real time. This conversation is honest, practical, human — and required listening for anyone trying to make corporate sustainability work at scale. Key Takeaways: Why “being sustainable” doesn’t motivate customers — but “making their world better” does: Sustainability is a polarizing identity; personal impact is a universal motivator. How Starbucks is tackling the convenience vs. sustainability paradox: Behavior change happens when sustainable choices are just as easy, seamless, and convenient as the familiar ones. Reusable cups as behavior design — not just waste reduction: A small but passionate group of customers proved that ritual, identity, and emotional connection drive adoption. Why circularity requires collaboration, not competition: Infrastructure, regulation, and recycling systems can’t be solved by one brand alone — “there is no IP in sustainability.” Progress over perfection in corporate sustainability: Sustainable innovation demands humility, experimentation, and the courage to move without all the answers. How Starbucks uses data, customer insights, and waste tracking to measure real impact: Metrics matter — especially when they reinforce behavior change and customer engagement. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction 02:00 – Amelia’s path from brand building at P&G to sustainable innovation at Starbucks 06:00 – Entering sustainability naively and discovering the complexity of systems change 08:04 – The convenience paradox: why “easy” always wins (and what Starbucks is doing about it) 10:30 – Designing reusable cup programs and customer-driven packaging innovation 14:07 – The hard parts: regulation, infrastructure, and the limits of what one company can control 16:01 – EPR legislation and the messy reality of circularity 17:49 – Progress, not perfection: leadership lessons from Starbucks’ sustainability evolution 19:46 – Influence without authority: navigating internal tensions 25:37 – Why tracking matters: measuring waste, behavior change, and customer engagement 28:38 – How different customer groups perceive Starbucks’ sustainability work 29:51 – Amelia’s closing wisdom: “Action is the antidote to despair.” Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/zHp81 (https://shorturl.at/zHp81) 🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/SXFdo (https://shorturl.at/SXFdo) _ It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.

11. 

    25 Nov 2025

    Making Earth Day Every Day Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Kathleen Rogers

    What happens the day after Earth Day? In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we sit down with Kathleen Rogers, President of EarthDay.org, the force behind one of the most iconic and enduring movements on the planet. This episode is a masterclass in what it takes to accelerate a legacy climate movement that spans 192 countries and activates over a billion people every year. From our deep psychological resistance to change to the global rise of pollution, plastics, and political polarization, Kathleen reveals why progress remains so slow, even when the stakes couldn’t be higher. She shares how Earth Day evolved into a global hub for environmental action, why it’s become now an “unstoppable movement,” and why fear-based messaging backfires. Most importantly, she explains how protecting “what surrounds us” — the very definition of environment — can rewire how people connect with climate, community, and hope. Key Takeaways: “People love the status quo.” Human resistance to change (not science or technology) is one of the biggest barriers to environmental progress. Earth Day’s biggest challenge is the day after. Mobilizing a billion people is powerful but sustaining the momentum requires cultural and behavioral change. Climate change presents an opportunity to reinvent the world. Kathleen believes that there is an optimistic opportunity confronting us: we get to redesign our systems, economy, and future for the better. Timestamps: 00:00 – Kathleen’s surprising path: TV, law, Olympic committees, and the road to EarthDay.org 08:00 – The global paradox: growing awareness, but worsening pollution 09:42 – Earth Day’s evolution into a global movement 10:00 – The challenge of momentum: What happens after Earth Day? 12:27 – The importance of protecting what surrounds us 13:10 – The rise of plastic pollution and public concern 13:36 – The true cost of Climate Change? Who is hurt most? 16:39 – Renewable energy as an “unstoppable” force 17:08 – Turning global problems into business opportunities 18:56 – Why changing human behavior is the hardest part 19:52 – Closing reflections: hope, humanity, and the miracle of the natural world Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/wrkNR (https://shorturl.at/wrkNR) 🌍 Get Grounded: (https://shorturl.at/SXFdo)https://shorturl.at/2PZeI (https://shorturl.at/2PZeI) _ It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.

12. 

    17 Nov 2025

    A Future Without Cigarettes Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Jennifer Motles

    Can a company built on cigarettes build a future without them? In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we sit down with Jennifer Motles, Chief Sustainability Officer at Philip Morris International, to explore what it takes to transform one of the world’s most controversial industries from the inside out. Jennifer shares her experience leading ESG strategy within a global company undergoing an unprecedented shift — from selling cigarettes to building a smoke-free future. She unpacks the human and moral challenges of aligning business, purpose, and science in real time, and why sustainable transformation requires more than targets — it requires trust. From corporate accountability to systems change, this conversation dives into how business can evolve beyond compliance and start designing for regeneration. Key Takeaways: How Philip Morris International is navigating its transition toward a smoke-free future and the structural challenges that come with it. Why ESG needs to move beyond reporting and into strategy, leadership, and cultural transformation. The importance of moral courage and transparency in driving change within legacy industries. Why the future of sustainability lies in systems thinking, empathy, and long-term value creation. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: What a “future without cigarettes” really means 05:00 – Jennifer’s path from public policy to corporate sustainability 08:39 – Rethinking ESG: moving from metrics to meaning 09:30 – The business case for transformation in legacy industries 11:02 – What does a smoke-free future look like? 13:08 – The tension between transparency and progress 13:30 – Systems thinking and redefining corporate responsibility 20:15 – Leadership lessons for the next era of sustainability 26:00 – Closing reflections: building trust in transformation Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/zHp81 (https://shorturl.at/zHp81) 🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/SXFdo (https://shorturl.at/SXFdo) _ It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.

13. 

    23 Oct 2025

    Fair Price For Coffee Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Bob & Michelle Fish

    Brewing Change: How BIGGBY Coffee Is Using Regenerative Agriculture to Redefine Capitalism Coffee connects us all — but what if it could heal the planet too? In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we sit down with Bob and Michelle Fish, the co-founders of BIGGBY Coffee and One Big Island in Space (OBIS), to explore how a beloved American coffee brand is leading a regenerative revolution—one farm, one partnership, and one community at a time. From growing BIGGBY Coffee into 450+ stores across the U.S. to transforming their entire global supply chain through farm-direct, regenerative agriculture, Bob and Michelle share how business can thrive within planetary limits—not despite them. They unpack the realities of climate change in coffee-growing regions, the urgent need for moral boundaries in capitalism, and why regeneration is a business imperative. Key Takeaways: How BIGGBY Coffee is working to source 100% of its beans through farm-direct regenerative agriculture by 2028. The philosophy behind “Capitalism with boundaries” and why it’s not philanthropy but  survival. The story of One Big Island in Space and how it connects coffee drinkers directly to the farmers growing their beans. Why empathy, storytelling, and personal purpose are key to building sustainable companies. The role of climate change, community impact, and partnership in the future of coffee. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction to BIGGBY Coffee and One Big Island in Space 06:00 – The personal and professional partnership of Bob & Michelle Fish 10:00 – Building a Life You Love: BIGGBY’s people-first philosophy 13:51 – The reality of scaling a sustainable business 19:04 – The inspiration behind OBIS and direct-to-farmer sourcing 24:23 – Simplicity in sustainability and the power of storytelling 26:48 – Capitalism with a conscience: profit within planetary limits 28:23 – Empathetic vs. sociopathic capitalism 35:00 – The flywheel of impact and building a regenerative future Additional Resources: ☕ Explore One Big Island in Space: https://www.onebigislandinspace.com (https://www.onebigislandinspace.com) 🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/XFS5k (https://bit.ly/3IYofhD) 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/6viH5 (https://shorturl.at/6viH5) -- It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like. Real conversations, radical ideas, and the occasional cup of coffee — grounded in the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.

14. 

    9 Oct 2025

    Universal Flourishing Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Karimah Hudda

    Rethinking Leadership for Universal Flourishing: Karimah Hudda on Systems Change, Courage, and Impact Leadership is hard. Leading with impact? Even harder. In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, co-hosts Heidi Schoeneck and Phil White sit down with Karimah Hudda, Systems Change Catalyst and Founder of illumine.earth, to uncover how courageous, purpose-driven leadership can overcome the barriers built into today’s business systems. From Fairtrade farms to the boardrooms of Nike and Mondelēz, Karimah has spent 20+ years leading global transformation. She shares how to unlock human potential, navigate systemic resistance, and create lasting impact — all while redefining what leadership really means. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why courage and consciousness matter more than conformity in leadership. How to navigate corporate and systemic barriers that slow change. The difference between compliance-driven and purpose-driven leadership. Practical ways to drive impact across industries and continents. Why universal flourishing should be the ultimate goal of every leader. Key Takeaways & Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction 03:00 – Karimah’s journey from India to global systems change 06:45 – Leading across agriculture, corporate, and nonprofit sectors 10:00 – Courage vs. conformity: the leadership mindset 13:30 – Unlocking universal flourishing in business 18:00 – Overcoming systemic resistance and barriers 22:15 – Actionable tips for impact-driven leaders 27:00 – Karimah’s one piece of advice for every changemaker Additional Resources: ✨ Get Grounded: (https://grounded.world/)https://bit.ly/3IYofhD (https://grounded.world/) 🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/VVdPS (https://grounded.world/gaia/) __ It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers navigating the complexities of responsible business. Expert insights, practical strategies, and our resident AI Gaia make leading with impact feel a little less daunting — and a lot more inspiring.

15. 

    18 Sept 2025

    Cancel Culture in Climate | Jenny Morgan

    Cancel culture is holding us back from climate action. This week on It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, our co-hosts, Heidi Schoeneck and Phil White, speak to Jenny Morgan, author of Cancel Culture and Climate, to understand how shame, purity tests, and the “angry activist” approach are slowing real progress and what we can do differently. Jenny reveals how empathy, curiosity, and forgiveness can create space for collaboration instead of division, and why celebrating “pretty good” steps may be the key to unlocking faster climate solutions. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why attacking brands often backfires and makes change harder. How cancel culture is creeping into the climate movement. The hidden role of projection bias in climate pledges and net zero goals. Why “perfect” is the enemy of progress and why “pretty good” matters. How to talk about climate justice without alienating people. Why curiosity is the most powerful tool for climate conversations. Jenny’s insights challenge us to move past shame and into solidarity. A mindset shift that could make all the difference in reversing climate change. Key Takeaways & Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction 03:00 – Why “pretty good” is good enough 05:45 – Net zero targets & projection bias 07:00 – Attacking brands vs. unlocking collaboration 10:00 – Cancel culture’s climate problem 13:00 – Climate inclusivity without shame 15:20 – Talking climate justice with empathy 20:00 – Empathy & accountability as change accelerators 23:00 – Jenny’s one piece of advice for every conversation Additional Resources Cancel Culture and Climate by Jenny Morgan is available now for purchase, learn more here: cancelcultureinclimate.com (https://www.cancelcultureinclimate.com/) — ✨ Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/tEENO (https://shorturl.at/tEENO) 🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/m9cCh (https://shorturl.at/m9cCh) — It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good. With expert insights, real-world strategies, and our resident AI, Gaia, to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, responsible business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun). Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

16. 

    11 Sept 2025

    Ending Plastic Pollution Shouldn’t Be This Hard | David Katz

    Welcome back to It Shouldn’t Be This Hard — the podcast where we dig into sustainability, purpose, and the messy, human side of making change… because the world desperately needs more of it. This week, our co-hosts Heidi Schoeneck and Phil White are joined by David Katz, CEO & Founder of Plastic Bank, the social fintech behind a global bottle deposit program that helps end poverty and stop plastic pollution. David brings raw honesty and unfiltered wisdom to the conversation, challenging us to rethink not only how we view plastic, but also how we define progress and prosperity. In this episode, David opens up about: Why inspiration without action is meaningless. The uncomfortable truth: big companies choose not to act, even when the path forward is obvious. The difference between profitability and prosperity and why prosperity creates exponential impact. Why he refuses to label plastic simply as “waste” or “garbage,” and what happens when we start seeing materials for their potential, not their disposal. His personal shift away from seeking external validation or accomplishments, and toward the deeper work of healing humanity and the planet. With a model built on dignity, purpose, and circularity, Plastic Bank is turning one of the world’s biggest problems into a pathway for prosperity. Tune in to hear one of the most provocative and inspiring conversations we’ve had yet and discover why ending plastic pollution shouldn’t be this hard. Key Takeaways Introduction (00:00) From inspiration to action (3:05) Why companies “choose not to act” (5:16) The challenge we all need to address (7:31) Profit vs. prosperity (10:33) Plastic Bank’s prosperity mindset (12:05) The hardest part of the journey (12:23) Letting go of validation (13:00) The deeper work of healing (16:22) Additional Resources ✨ Get Grounded: (https://grounded.world/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) 🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: (https://grounded.world/gaia/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)https://grounded.world/gaia/ (https://grounded.world/gaia/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) — It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good. With expert insights, real-world strategies, and our resident AI, Gaia, to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, responsible business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun). Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

17. 

    21 Aug 2025

    Fighting Food Waste Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Hilary Keates

    Welcome back to It Shouldn’t Be This Hard — the podcast where we dig into sustainability, purpose, and the messy, human side of making change… because the world desperately needs more of it. In this episode, we’re joined by the brilliant Hilary Keates, who takes us on a journey from billion-dollar product launches at Gillette to reshaping the food system as Chief Marketing Officer of Divert. Along the way, she opens up about the pivotal career decisions that defined her path, the tough lessons she’s learned about boundaries and burnout, and why she believes fighting food waste shouldn’t be this hard. Hilary talks about what it was like to help launch Gillette Fusion — the fastest $1B product in P&G history — and why walking away from that kind of high-octane success to pursue sustainability was one of the best decisions she’s ever made. She takes us inside her work at Indigo Agriculture and now Divert, where the mission is keeping food out of landfills and turning “would-be” waste into impact. We get into the shocking numbers — like why one-third of all food in the U.S. is wasted, how that costs the average household $1,500 every year, and why food waste is actually a bigger driver of climate change than cars. Hilary also shares how major grocers are working with Divert to turn the tide on this issue. Hilary’s story is both inspiring and practical, full of real talk about what it takes to shift from shareholder to stakeholder capitalism, and how to find meaning in the work you do. Tune in to hear more about Hilary’s journey, the fight against food waste, and why this conversation is one of the most important ones we can be having right now. Key Takeaways: Introduction (00:00) Hilary’s beginnings (2:28) Pivotal career moments (4:15) Fighting food waste with Divert (9:00) The hardest part: boundaries (10:53) Small actions, big change (13:37) The shocking scale of food waste (15:45) Retail partnerships (16:50) Question for Gaia (18:44) Advice for sustainability leaders and final reflections (21:32) Additional Resources: ✨ Get Grounded: (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fgrounded.world%2F&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbTMzWjlrblEycG5OZ3hOWWRObkFHMnBDRW56UXxBQ3Jtc0ttVWRHWTZ3a3ZuQXh3SjhiejZaMnFNbnJsS29DZXpZZGlVVVNFTHFYVWNoNlhubWR4RXJqemhGWlRIR0pQaktUaTFSVF9Jb29OSV9UZnRBTThsZ2FQbjlza19NZFgybGt2ajhHMkg5bDNFVk1ObnZiNA&v=wxhaXuXdd-U)https://grounded.world/ (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fgrounded.world%2F&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbTMzWjlrblEycG5OZ3hOWWRObkFHMnBDRW56UXxBQ3Jtc0ttVWRHWTZ3a3ZuQXh3SjhiejZaMnFNbnJsS29DZXpZZGlVVVNFTHFYVWNoNlhubWR4RXJqemhGWlRIR0pQaktUaTFSVF9Jb29OSV9UZnRBTThsZ2FQbjlza19NZFgybGt2ajhHMkg5bDNFVk1ObnZiNA&v=wxhaXuXdd-U) 🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fgrounded.world%2Fgaia%2F&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbmdrRF9qR2tRZ0ZPWTNDbS03QlJCMUE4V1Z0QXxBQ3Jtc0trVTltUURMNzNfcllXbEJrY3luRV91dEJPaHhWamg2X1FKODg3T29wNnc3MkMwRFVLTFlpQnYyV3QtblBDOVZlMUtucDVDSTE3YWs0UnNyLTR1OE1pUnB5ZHVjdGZFVG5yTm13eERHbU10TkJWUTR1WQ&v=wxhaXuXdd-U)https://grounded.world/gaia/ (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fgrounded.world%2Fgaia%2F&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbmdrRF9qR2tRZ0ZPWTNDbS03QlJCMUE4V1Z0QXxBQ3Jtc0trVTltUURMNzNfcllXbEJrY3luRV91dEJPaHhWamg2X1FKODg3T29wNnc3MkMwRFVLTFlpQnYyV3QtblBDOVZlMUtucDVDSTE3YWs0UnNyLTR1OE1pUnB5ZHVjdGZFVG5yTm13eERHbU10TkJWUTR1WQ&v=wxhaXuXdd-U) — It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good. With expert insights, real-world strategies, and our resident AI, Gaia, to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, responsible business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun). Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

18. 

    23 Jul 2025

    Journalism Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Kathy Baird Westfall

    Welcome to the VERY FIRST episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, where we discuss all things sustainability… because the world ALWAYS needs more of it! We’re excited to kick things off with a real conversation about career pivots, personal growth, the importance of ethical journalism, and why sometimes the best thing that can happen to you is also the most unexpected. Meet Kathy Baird Westfall, our amazing guest for this inaugural episode, who's been through the ringer in her career and is now taking a step back to focus on what’s next. And by the way, she’s LOVING being unemployed for the first time since she was fourteen. Yep, you heard that right! Kathy takes us through her journey, from the whirlwind of agency life to transitioning into corporate at Nike, and how all of that shaped her views on leadership and the changing dynamics in the workplace. She also gives us her thoughts on why DEI is still such a hot, polarizing topic today. (Spoiler alert: She’s got some strong opinions, and we’re here for it). Along the way, Kathy talks about her love for lifelong learning and staying grounded in your values. Finally, Kathy also discusses the importance of local journalism, why it’s under more threat than ever right now, and why news deserts are one of the greatest threats to our democracy right now. We’re not saying she’s got the secret sauce to life… but we’re kind of saying she does. Tune in now to learn more about Kathy’s journey, where she’s going, and how she sees the future of journalism. Key Takeaways: Introduction (00:00) On being unemployed for the first time since age 14 (02:45) How getting recruited by Nike changed Kathy’s life (05:31) Kathy’s lifelong passion for learning and teaching (06:57) Transitioning from agency life to corporate culture (08:14) The challenges facing the press today (13:24) Helping people understand the information they need (18:19) What continues to frustrate Kathy (19:37) Why DEI remains a contentious and polarizing issue (20:48) What skills will leaders need in the age of AI? (27:33) Additional Resources: ✨ Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ (https://grounded.world/) 🔥 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/ (https://grounded.world/gaia/) — It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is a podcast for businesses striving to grow sustainably while navigating the complexities of doing good. With expert insights, real-world strategies, and Gaia AI to answer your burning questions, we make building a successful, ethical business feel a little less daunting (and a lot more fun). Don’t forget to follow/subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

19. 

    23 Jun 2025

    Why Is It So Hard to Do the Right Things? (Trailer Episode)

    Hosts Phil and Heidi introduce their podcast, "It Shouldn't Be This Hard," exploring the challenges of aligning values with actions in business and life, offering insights for social entrepreneurs and impact leaders.

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

YouTube views

1,180

Score snapshot 15 Sept 2025

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

1 ratings

Podcast Authority Score: 20 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

12

Social presence

0

YouTube

68

Engagement

0

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Guest appearances

Books guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.