How do we transform and transcend our biases? From judgments made unconsciously to complacency in systemic evil, we must learn how to see if we are to learn how to transform. Center for Action and Contemplation faculty member Brian McLaren hosts the podcast series Learning How to See. Listen and discover how seeing is social, political, and contemplative.

Learning How to See with Brian McLaren
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Podcast Overview
How do we transform and transcend our biases? From judgments made unconsciously to complacency in systemic evil, we must learn how to see if we are to learn how to transform. Center for Action and Contemplation faculty member Brian McLaren hosts the podcast series Learning How to See. Listen and discover how seeing is social, political, and contemplative.
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Publishing Since
10/1/2020
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Recent Episodes

December 18, 2025
When Loving Means Letting Go with Jen Hatmaker
What do we do when life unravels in painful ways — like navigating an unexpected divorce? On today's episode of Learning How to See, Carmen and Brian are joined by New York Times Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker. With great humor and authenticity, Jen takes us through the vulnerable experience of sharing her story, the transformation she went through after loss, and the spiritual power of starting over. Jen reflects on themes from her new memoir Awake, and shares how her divorce helped her trust her inner knowing, become more fully embodied, and rebuild a life rooted in integrity rather than expectation. Tune in to discover how community and self-compassion can guide us through seasons of upheaval — and how choosing honesty can become its own form of liberation. Resources: Pick up a copy of Jen's latest book, Awake, here. Learn more about Jen here. Find the transcript for today's episode here. Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail

December 11, 2025
Loving When We're Not At Our Best with Parker Palmer
How can we see others, and ourselves, with love when anger, fear, depression, or division clouds our vision? Today's episode of Learning How to See features an interview with Quaker elder Parker J. Palmer. Parker helps us explore how love can become a way of seeing, how we can navigate times of depression, and why listening to each other’s life stories may be our best antidote to polarization. Join us as Parker reflects on encounters that reshaped his assumptions about “the other,” sharing insights from decades of Quaker practice. Resources: Subscribe to Parker's Substack here. Learn more about the Center for Renewal and Courage here. Follow Parker on Facebook here. Find the transcript for this episode here. Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail

December 4, 2025
Learning How to Hold Space for Others with Cindy Lee
How can we de-Westernize spirituality and honor our full humanity within systems that often diminish it? On this episode of Learning How to See, Dr. Cindy Lee, a spiritual director and author, joins hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher for a conversation on de-Westernizing spirituality and holding space for the lived experience of others. Cindy shares how her work with BIPOC communities revealed the limits of Westernized spiritual formation, and how confronting the “Western missionary gaze” can open us to seeing our cultures — and ourselves — with dignity rather than judgment. Resources: Read Howard Thurman's "The Sound of the Genuine" here. Find the transcript of this episode here. Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail Email us: podcasts@cac.org
80 total episodes available with 2 transcripts
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