Loving Differently Podcast

About Loving Differently Podcast

The Loving Differently Podcast is a podcast created by two licensed clinical psychologists who are leading practitioners of Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy, known as IRT for short. In this podcast, Drs. Critchfield and Stucker-Rozovsky unpack the theory and practice of IRT, showing how IRT offers a novel way to work in psychotherapy towards unlearning maladaptive ("Red") patterns and building up their adaptive, growth-oriented ("Green") self. We discuss ways that psychological symptoms can be thought of as a love story gone wrong and how we can learn to love differently.

Publisher

Dr. Kenneth Critchfield and Dr. Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky

Category

health & fitness

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

7 Sept 2025

Latest episode

8 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

19 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   8 Oct 2026

   Episode 015 - The Therapist's Case Formulation

   We started this conversation off the mic and realized we should have been recording, so this episode picks up mid-conversation. Everyone has a case formulation, including the therapist. We cover why it's so much easier to see someone else's patterns than our own, why therapists need their own therapy and trusted colleagues, and the irony of helping patients change while being unable to change our own families. We discuss why deep change takes time, how diagnosis and formulation serve different purposes, why estrangement rarely frees us from the attachment figures in our heads, and what it means to love differently rather than stop loving. They also share some of their own origin stories as clinicians and name the "fixer" pattern many therapists will recognize. Have a topic you'd like us to cover? Email us at podcast@irtinstitute.com Chapters 00:00 Cold open: picking up mid-conversation 02:00 Therapists are people too 04:30 Blind spots need mirrors 07:00 You can't be your family's therapist 08:30 Why real change takes time 12:00 Diagnosis vs. formulation 15:30 Attachment figures live inside us (and why estrangement doesn't work) 17:00 Loving differently, not loving less 20:30 Copy process vs. love, and seeing caregivers as human 23:00 Grief and leaving red 25:00 Passing the baton forward 26:00 The therapist fixer trap 28:00 Choosing with awareness: a lesson from Lorna Benjamin 30:00 Our origin stories as therapists 33:00 Universal through-lines beneath the DSM 36:00 Listener requests: anger, partnering, and parenting 38:30 Wrap-up Disclaimer Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services.

2. 

   28 Aug 2026

   Episode 013 - Beyond the Diagnosis: Wrapping Up Our Personality Prototype Series

   In this finale to their personality disorder prototype series, Eliza and Ken step back to reflect on what they've learned using Lorna Smith Benjamin's Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT) and the SASB model. They talk candidly about their shared ambivalence toward diagnostic labels, walk through a real case ("Sylvia") whose interpersonal pattern statistically overlaps two personality disorder categories, and discuss why treatment direction tends to fall directly out of a good interpersonal case formulation. They also dig into a trend Eliza sees often in session: clients arriving with self-diagnoses from TikTok, and the difference between over-identifying with a label versus understanding a pattern. The episode closes with a discussion of therapeutic alliance, enactments, and why personality pathology makes the therapy relationship itself part of the work. In this episode: (00:00) Series wrap-up begins (02:00) How each host mentally represents the SASB model (03:00) Ambivalence about personality disorder labels (04:00) The bridge between interpersonal theory and DSM diagnosis (06:00) Stigma and the risk of labels (08:00) Two ways to think about what prototypes offer (11:00) Introducing the Sylvia case (14:00) Sylvia's pattern: perfectionism, overlap of OCD and passive-aggressive features (17:00) Why the story resolves what the label can't (20:00) SASB as a middle ground between raw phenomenology and diagnostic boxes (22:00) TikTok, self-diagnosis, and over-identification with labels (25:00) How treatment implications flow from interpersonal understanding (28:00) Alliance, enactments, and countertransference with personality pathology (33:00) Humanizing attachment wounds (36:00) Listener feedback, thanks, and IRT training updates Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services.

3. 

   6 Aug 2026

   Episode 013 - Cluster A Unpacked: Paranoid, Schizoid & Schizotypal Personality

   In the final installment of our personality disorder prototype series, we tackle Cluster A: paranoid, schizoid, and schizotypal personality disorders. Using Lorna Smith Benjamin's Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy framework, Eliza and Ken trace each pattern back to its developmental origins — from sadistic, controlling caregiving to the contradictory double-binds that produce magical thinking and eroded reality-testing. We also ask some harder questions: Is schizoid personality really a disorder, or just a different way of being wired? Where does eccentricity end and psychosis begin? And what does it mean to be a "rhetor" — a persuader — when helping a client reconsider a belief system taught to them by the people they trusted most? Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services.

4. 

   8 Jun 2026

   Trailer

   Welcome to Loving Differently, a podcast co-hosted by Drs. Ken Critchfield and Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky.

5. 

   3 Jun 2026

   Episode 012 - Narcissistic and Antisocial Personality Disorders Through an IRT Lens

   Summary: In Episode 12 of the Loving Differently Podcast, Dr. Kenneth Critchfield, Ph.D., and Dr. Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky, Psy.D., continue their Personality Harmonics series with a deep dive into Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASD) through the lens of Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT). Rather than treating DSM-5 personality disorders as flat labels, Ken and Eliza explore how these patterns can be understood as developmental and relational adaptations. This episode walks through the prototypic pattern, developmental histories, and exclusionary and inclusionary criteria for both NPD and ASD. This episode is especially relevant for clinicians working with trauma, interpersonal patterns, personality disorders, and challenging therapeutic alliances. It offers an IRT-informed way to hold empathy and accountability together while thinking carefully about case formulation, therapist adherence, and treatment timing. Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist-client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services. Subscribe for more IRT-focused discussions. Send us your questions at lovingdifferentlypodcast@gmail.com (mailto:lovingdifferentlypodcast@gmail.com). Timestamps: 00:00 LDP Episode 012 final 02:39 Narcissistic Personality Disorder Overview 08:23 NPD Developmental History 30:26 IRT Treatment Approach for NPD 48:13 Antisocial Personality Disorder 57:28 ASPD Developmental History 01:09:36 IRT Treatment Approach for ASPD 01:21:21 Wrap-Up & What's Next

6. 

   8 May 2026

   Episode 011 - Interpersonal Harmonics Mini Series Ep 3 - Histrionic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder

   Summary: This episode continues our personality disorder prototype series by exploring histrionic personality disorder (HPD) and its relationship to borderline personality disorder (BPD) through an Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT) lens. Clinical Psychologists Ken and Eliza examine how both patterns center around fears of abandonment, but diverge in how individuals attempt to meet those needs—highlighting coercive dependency in HPD and shifting relational dynamics in BPD. The episode also addresses gendered assumptions in diagnosis and the importance of case formulation over labels. Clinicians will gain a deeper understanding of how interpersonal patterns develop, how they present in therapy, and how to respond without reinforcing maladaptive cycles. This discussion offers practical insight into working with personality disorders in a way that is compassionate, nuanced, and clinically effective within an IRT framework. If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the ⁠IRT Institute ⁠ (http://irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals. We have also created an ⁠episode guide⁠ (https://www.irtinstitute.com/lovingdifferentlypodcast) that gives more detailed information about each episode. Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction to the series and rationale 02:30 Framing personality disorders through IRT and SASB 05:00 Overview of borderline personality dynamics 08:00 Introducing histrionic personality disorder 12:00 DSM vs interpersonal understanding 16:00 Developmental history of histrionic patterns 21:00 Similarities and differences between HPD and BPD 27:00 Clinical implications and therapy dynamics 35:00 Countertransference and therapist awareness 45:00 Closing thoughts and preview of next episode References: (https://www.irtinstitute.com/lovingdifferentlypodcast) for specific references

7. 

   1 May 2026

   Episode 010 - Interpersonal Harmonics Mini-Series Ep 2 - Borderline and Passive Aggressive Personality Disorders

   Summary: In Episode 010, we (Dr. Ken Critchfield and Dr. Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky, licensed clinical psychologists) continue our personality prototype series through the lens of Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT). We focus on borderline personality disorder (BPD) and passive-aggressive patterns, exploring how developmental trauma and complex interpersonal learning shape enduring patterns seen in DSM-5 personality disorders.We unpack core IRT concepts such as complex codes, copy processes, and the “gift of love,” illustrating how interpersonal patterns—like fear of abandonment, coercive care-seeking, and self-sabotage—develop and persist. We also examine how developmental trauma contributes to paradoxical dynamics (e.g., love paired with fear, autonomy paired with punishment), and how these patterns play out in therapy.This episode is designed for clinicians seeking a deeper, formulation-driven understanding of personality disorders beyond symptom checklists. We emphasize how recognizing interpersonal patterns can guide more effective, compassionate treatment. If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the ⁠IRT Institute ⁠ (http://irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals. We have also created an ⁠episode guide⁠ (https://www.irtinstitute.com/lovingdifferentlypodcast) that gives more detailed information about each episode. Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services. Timestamps: 0:00 — Intro 1:35 — Episode Introduction 1:38 — Personality Prototype Series Overview 3:34 — Understanding Complex Codes 5:50 — BPD Interpersonal Summary 7:12 — BPD Developmental History 25:33 — BPD Necessary & Exclusionary Conditions 42:47 — Transition to Passive-Aggressive PD 43:35 — Passive-Aggressive PD Overview 48:38 — Passive-Aggressive Interpersonal Summary 1:03:45 — Passive-Aggressive Treatment Approach 1:13:40 — BPD vs. Passive-Aggressive: Comparing Patterns 1:19:15 — Closing References:

8. 

   18 Mar 2026

   Episode 009 - Interpersonal Harmonics Mini Series Ep 1 - Avoidant, Dependent, and Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorders

   In this episode, Ken Critchfield, PhD and Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky, PsyD begin a new miniseries on Interpersonal Harmonics—a core concept in Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT)—by exploring Cluster C personality disorders through an interpersonal lens. We walk through avoidant, dependent, and obsessive-compulsive personality patterns, highlighting how these presentations extend beyond DSM-5 symptom lists into deeply rooted interpersonal patterns shaped by developmental trauma and learning histories. Using SASB-informed thinking and copy process theory, we examine how early caregiving environments shape internal self-criticism, fears of rejection or incompetence, and rigid perfectionism. Throughout the episode, we emphasize a central IRT principle: these are not “disordered people,” but adaptive love stories gone wrong. By understanding the interpersonal logic behind these patterns, clinicians can move beyond diagnosis toward meaningful case formulation and compassionate, effective treatment. Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship. Timestamps (00:00) – Launching the Interpersonal Harmonics miniseries (02:00) – Why Cluster C personality patterns first (04:30) – Avoidant personality: beyond anxiety (06:30) – Fear of rejection, humiliation, and longing for connection (09:00) – Developmental origins and criticism (17:30) – Therapy stance with avoidant patients (43:30) – Transition to dependent personality (45:00) – Developmental pathways to dependency (52:00) – DSM vs interpersonal patterns in dependency (01:01:00) – Transition to obsessive-compulsive personality (01:03:00) – Perfectionism and fear of imperfection (01:08:00) – Living in the courtroom (01:14:00) – Therapy stance for OCPD (01:24:00) – Experiencing life beyond perfectionism (01:28:30) – Summary of Cluster C

9. 

   4 Jan 2026

   Episode 008 - Highlight Reel

   Check out episode 008 where we review an upcoming publication and its implications. Paper referenced: Panizo, M. T., Harrison, E. G., & Critchfield, K. L. (in press, 2026). Interpersonal Diagnosis of Personality Disorders: Explaining Comorbidity and Enhancing Clinical Relevance. Journal of Psychotherapy Integration.

10. 

    4 Jan 2026

    Episode 008 - Personality Disorder through an Interpersonal Lens – Validating Lorna Benjamin’s Approach

    Summary In this episode of the Loving Differently Podcast, we (Dr. Ken Critchfield and Dr. Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky) dive into a newly accepted paper examining the interpersonal diagnosis of personality disorders through the lens of Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT). Using the SASB model, we explore how longstanding debates in the DSM-5—categorical versus dimensional models of personality disorder—can be reframed through interpersonal patterns and developmental histories.We discuss how personality disorders are best understood not as fixed traits, but as learned relational strategies that once served adaptive purposes in difficult environments. Drawing on empirical findings from Panizo et al. (2025), we examine interpersonal hostility, comorbidity, and how overlapping personality disorder features emerge naturally when viewed dimensionally. We also explore how interpersonal case formulation offers clinicians greater empathy, specificity, and hope for change.Throughout the episode, we connect theory to clinical practice—highlighting how IRT helps clinicians move beyond symptom management toward helping patients reconstruct deeply ingrained relational patterns rooted in developmental trauma. We also preview an upcoming series focused on specific personality disorder prototypes and their interpersonal harmonics.Send us your questions at lovingdifferentlypodcast@gmail.com and subscribe for more IRT-focused discussions.Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services. Timestamps (00:00) – Introduction and context for the Panizo et al. paper (02:30) – Why personality disorders remain a central clinical challenge (05:00) – Categorical vs dimensional models in the DSM-5 (08:30) – How SASB conceptualizes interpersonal patterns (12:00) – Developmental trauma and adaptive origins of personality patterns (16:00) – Interpersonal hostility as a core feature of personality disorders (20:00) – Understanding comorbidity through interpersonal overlap (25:00) – Five interpersonal clusters identified in the research (32:00) – Clinical implications of interpersonal diagnosis (40:00) – Hope, change, and reconstruction in IRT (48:00) – Bridging DSM language with interpersonal case formulation (55:00) – Preview of upcoming personality disorder series (63:00) – Final reflections on empathy and clinical relevance

11. 

    22 Dec 2025

    Year-End Thanks, Merch, and What We’re Working On

    In this short update, we (Ken and Eliza) wanted to pause and say thank you to everyone who has listened to Loving Differently this year. When we started the podcast, we genuinely didn’t know if anyone would be listening — and the thoughtful feedback, engagement, and curiosity from clinicians and learners alike has meant more to us than we can easily put into words. We also share a quick update about our limited merch campaign, which was created to help support the podcast as we upgraded our recording setup and production quality. From mugs to t-shirts and totes, we wanted to offer items that were genuinely well-made and meaningful — things we’d actually want to use ourselves — as a small way of saying thanks while also covering some of the real costs of running the podcast. Link to merch: https://linktr.ee/irtinstitute (Link for our limited edition merch!) Finally, we give a preview of what’s coming next on Loving Differently, including upcoming episodes on personality disorder, personality measurement, and the SASB interpersonal framework, as well as deeper clinical conversations grounded in Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT) and the work of Lorna Benjamin. We’re also beginning to plan more in-depth IRT training opportunities and workshops for those who want to go further. Send us your questions at lovingdifferentlypodcast@gmail.com and subscribe to this podcast for more IRT-focused discussions. Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist–client relationship. Timestamps (00:00) – Ken and Eliza share a quick update and say thank you (00:35) – Why we launched the merch campaign and upgraded our recording (01:15) – What the merch means to us and why we chose quality items (02:05) – Gratitude for listeners and feedback over the past year (02:45) – How long the merch campaign runs and what happens next (03:05) – Upcoming episodes on personality disorder and SASB (03:35) – Future plans for IRT training and workshops (04:00) – Holiday wishes and closing thanks

12. 

    2 Dec 2025

    Trailer - Episode 007

    A preview of our most recent episode, all about what is reconstruction mean (the "R" of IRT).

13. 

    2 Dec 2025

    Episode 007 - What Is the “R” in IRT? Reconstruction, Red & Green, and the Gift of Love

    In this episode, we unpack the “R” in Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy: Reconstruction—what it means, why it matters, and how it reshapes identity, relationships, and the patterns we carry forward from early life. We explore the dynamics of Red and Green, the powerful pull of the Gift of Love, and why change can feel both destabilizing and deeply transformative. Using clinical examples and personal reflections from practice, we illuminate how IRT helps people move from old, loyalty-driven patterns toward their birthright selves. If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, rate/review, and share with your friends and colleagues. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the ⁠IRT Institute ⁠ (http://irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals. We have also created an episode guide (https://www.irtinstitute.com/lovingdifferentlypodcast) that gives more detailed information about each episode. Note: The Loving Differently Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content discussed in each episode is not a substitute for professional mental health care, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist–client relationship with either of the hosts. If you are experiencing psychological distress, relationship difficulties, or a mental health emergency, please seek support from a licensed mental health provider in your area or contact your local emergency services. Timestamps: (00:00) – Introducing the episode: what “reconstruction” means in IRT (01:15) – Housekeeping, listener feedback, and new platform availability (02:10) – What makes IRT’s take on personality and change unique (03:00) – Defining reconstruction: patterns vs identity (04:30) – Fear of losing oneself when patterns change (06:05) – Red and Green explained: behavioral templates under stress (07:15) – The “regressive loyalist” and how Red protects old bonds (09:00) – The Gift of Love: why patterns persist across a lifetime (10:40) – Lorna Benjamin’s quote: “Every psychopathology is a gift of love” (12:10) – Applying IRT concepts: example of OCP patterns and learned control (14:20) – How early caregiving shapes perfectionism and self-neglect (16:00) – Why other therapies get “stuck”: insight vs motivation (18:00) – Understanding attachment motivations to unlock change (20:00) – The shift from Red to Green: awareness, blocking, choice (22:45) – Exploring Green: flexibility, tolerance, authenticity (25:10) – Practicing alternative patterns: behavioral vs existential change (27:40) – Creativity, play, and exercises that support Green (30:00) – Rehearsal, repetition, and neurobiological restructuring (32:10) – The deeper transformation: identity, grief, and loss (34:00) – Courage, mistrust, and the leap into the unknown (37:00) – Honoring patients’ bravery and the therapist’s role (38:30) – Wrapping up + preview of Episode 008 on personality disorders

14. 

    31 Oct 2025

    Episode 003- Introduction to the Structural Analysis of Social Behavior (SASB), part 1

    Summary: Welcome back, folks! We are almost through with the beginning, didactic-like episodes where we introduce all the IRT/SASB lingo. Today's episode is introducing SASB and key concepts/terms associated with SASB. The intro to SASB topic is actually broken into two episodes, to make it easier to listen! If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the ⁠⁠IRT Institute ⁠⁠ (http://irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals. Timestamps/Notes: 3 axes of SASB: Focus, Affiliation, and Interdependence (08:52) - Axes of SASB Axis 1 - Focus: Is this about you, or is this about me? (10:00) - Focus on other (10:35) - Focus on self relative to other (11:35) - Focus on self Axis 2 - Affiliation: Are we in friendly space, or are we in hostile space?  Axis 3 - Interdependence: Do we go our separate ways or do we share? (12:56) - Describing SASB visually, with axes of affiliation (13:00) and interdependence (19:17) (26:52) - Goals of IRT using SASB - flexibility (30:40) - The “dances” within SASB -Principles of similarity, opposites, and complementarity (38:15) - Baseline of healthy relatedness References: Critchfield, K. L., & Benjamin, L. S. (2024). Structural analysis of social behavior: A primer for clinical use. American Psychological Association (APA).

15. 

    19 Oct 2025

    Episode 006 - How Change Happens in IRT: The Gift of Love

    Summary: In this episode of Loving Differently, Dr. Ken Critchfield and Dr. Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky unpack one of the most important empirical contributions to Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT): The Gift of Love as a Candidate Mechanism of Psychopathology and Change in IRT. Published in Psychotherapy (APA), this study investigates how deeply entrenched interpersonal patterns—rooted in early attachment experiences and developmental trauma—shape symptoms in individuals with high acuity clinical needs. Rather than comparing IRT to a control condition, this research examines therapist adherence to IRT principles and whether aligning treatment with case formulation, supporting “green” over “red,” and engaging the Gift of Love motivations leads to meaningful clinical improvement. The sample includes patients with repeated hospitalizations, suicidality, and longstanding personality disorder diagnoses—individuals often labeled “difficult,” “treatment-resistant,” or “non-responders” in traditional DSM-5 frameworks. Dr. Critchfield and Dr. Stucker-Rozovsky discuss how adherence predicts better outcomes, including higher retention and significant recovery rates. They also explore how the Gift of Love framework provides a structure for understanding unconscious loyalty, symptom meaning, relational patterns, and why clients struggle to change despite genuine desire to feel better. Send your questions to LovingDifferentlyPodcast@gmail.com (mailto:LovingDifferentlyPodcast@gmail.com) and subscribe for more IRT-focused discussions. Timestamps: (05:00) - General takeaways from GOL paper (14:15)- GOL Awareness and Choice Scale (16:20) - The importance of learning history in IRT; why some modern day therapy is present focused (22:22) - Meanings of ‘symptom’ in IRT, in relation to the GOL (31:39) - Adherence in IRT (34:34) - 5 Steps of IRT (36:15) - What IRT addresses that TAU does not (39:10) - Supporting Green over Red (53:40) - Collaboration in case formulation development (55:00) - Choosing to love differently (58:30) - Mediation effect in IRT paper (61:00) - GOL and “treatment resistance” (64:40) - Paucity of research studying individuals with high acuity clinical needs References: Critchfield, K. L., Gornish, A., Epstein, L., Mackaronis, J. E., & Benjamin, L. S. (2025). The "gift of love" as a candidate mechanism of psychopathology and change in interpersonal reconstructive therapy for patients with high-acuity clinical needs. Psychotherapy (Chicago, Ill.), 10.1037/pst0000556. Advance online publication. https://doi.org/10.1037/pst0000556 (https://doi.org/10.1037/pst0000556) Karpiak, C. P., & Benjamin, L. S. (2004). Therapist Affirmation and the Process and Outcome of Psychotherapy: Two Sequential Analytic Studies. Journal of Clinical Psychology, 60(6), 659–676. https://doi.org/10.1002/jclp.10248 (https://psycnet.apa.org/doi/10.1002/jclp.10248)

16. 

    5 Oct 2025

    Episode 005 - What is a personality disorder, anyway?

    Summary: Welcome back! In today’s episode, we take a bird’s eye view of personality disorders. We look at the categorical definition of a personality disorder in the DSM-5 TR and compare and contrast it to an IRT understanding of personality disorders. We discuss stigma related to the term ‘personality disorder’ and our own ambivalence around this terminology. Over the course of the episode, we talk about ways IRT helps to destigmatize personality disorders and humanize our patients, through working to understand a person’s specific learning history and relational patterns as ways of adapting at one time. We also discuss the role of trauma in development of personality disorders, ways IRT holds hope for positive, meaningful change, the role of finding the Green self in fostering this change, and our musings about what exactly changes in a person undergoing IRT treatment. This is a fun episode - we hope you enjoy! If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the ⁠IRT Institute ⁠ (http://irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals. Timestamps: (4:02) - General PD definition DSM-5 TR (8:25) - Stigma around personality disorders (11:30) - Some relational summaries for avoidant, schizoid, dependent (13:30) - 1993 Lorna book (15:45) - Our ambivalence about PD labels (24:45) - Relational signatures of personality disorders (29:00) - Trait theory vs Red (31:30) - Copy processes making problem patterns specific to learning history (33:33) - Role of trauma in personality disorders (34:35) - Lorna’s metaphor of relational harmonics and letting go of GOL (37:31) - Does IRT change the core of a person? References: Benjamin, L.S. (1993/1996). Interpersonal Diagnosis and Treatment of Personality Disorder. New York: Guilford Press. Stucker-Rozovsky, E. (2022). Operationalizing the Gift of Love (GOL) in Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT): An examination of the role of meaning reconstruction in therapeutic change. [Doctoral dissertation, James Madison University]. ProQuest Dissertations & Theses Global.

17. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Episode 004 - Introduction to SASB, part 2 - Touring the SASB Model

    Summary: Welcome back! We could talk about SASB for WAY longer than this, but this is part 2 of what we'll call the introduction to SASB. In today's episode, we take each of the eight positions of the cluster model one at a time and discuss each, complete with applications in everyday life as well as within therapy conversations! If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the ⁠IRT Institute ⁠ (http://irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals. Timestamps: (2:35) Overview of the positions of SASB, starting with  cluster 2 (“I’m ok and you’re ok”) (5:09) Cluster 3 - love (8:39) Cluster 4 - protect/teach (13:08) Cluster 5 - control (19:17) Cluster 6 - blame (30:29) Cluster 7 - attack (38:59) Cluster 8 - ignore (47:14) Cluster 1 - emancipate References: Benjamin, L. S. (2018). Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy for Anger, Anxiety and Depression: It’s about broken hearts, not broken brains. American Psychological Association (APA). Critchfield, K. L., & Benjamin, L. S. (2024). Structural analysis of social behavior: A primer for clinical use. American Psychological Association (APA).

18. 

    7 Sept 2025

    Episode 002 - What is Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT), anyway?

    Summary: Welcome back! In today's episode, we give a general overview of some key terms and concepts underlying IRT as both a theory of psychopathology and a principles-based therapy approach. We discuss the goals of therapy in IRT, how to identify maladaptive behaviors linked to loved ones, and how to help build the adaptive part of the self that is able to let go and (you guessed it!) love differently. We also define key concepts unique to IRT, such as copy processes and the gift of love (GOL), and how they are incorporated into a case formulation. We discuss the contentious label of "treatment resistance" within the mental health community and provide a re-frame of how mental illness can be understood through an IRT lens. If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the ⁠IRT Institute ⁠ (http://irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals. Timestamps: (04:40) - Definition of ‘symptoms’ from an IRT point of view (05:16) - Red and Green parts of the self (08:30) - Goal of IRT - the adaptive self (13:10) - SASB description of Green behaviors (13:40) - SASB description of Red behaviors (18:00) - Function of enacting Red (19:10) - Love, protection, and approval (20:49) - Reframing treatment resistance (21:57) - GOL, defined (26:35) - Introjection as copy process (28:00) - Recapitulation as copy process (34:20) - Case formulation components in IRT References: Benjamin, L.S. Interpersonal Diagnosis and Treatment of Personality Disorder. N.Y: Guilford Press. 1st edition, 1993; 2nd 1996; paperback 2003. Benjamin, L. S. Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT): an integrative personality-based treatment for complex cases. New York: Guilford Press. (2003; paperback edition 2006) Benjamin, L.S. (2018). Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy for Anger, Anxiety and Depression: It’s about Broken Hearts, Not Broken Brains. Washington, D. C.: American Psychological Association

19. 

    7 Sept 2025

    Episode 001 - Introduction to the Loving Differently Podcast

    Summary: In this premiere episode of Loving Differently, clinical psychologists Dr. Ken Critchfield and Dr. Eliza Stucker-Rozovsky introduce listeners to the spirit of Interpersonal Reconstructive Therapy (IRT)—a way of understanding how our earliest relationships shape the patterns of love we repeat throughout life. Through stories of mentorship under IRT founder Lorna Smith Benjamin and their own paths into the field, Ken and Eliza explore what it means to “love differently”: to move beyond blame, understand the meaning behind behavior, and transform even painful attachment patterns into growth and connection. If you like this episode, please subscribe, like, and share with your friends. Let us know what you want to hear us talk about in future episodes - we are listening! Check out the IRT Institute (irtinstitute.com)website for more information on IRT, including training for mental health professionals.

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

3 ratings

Spotify

5.0 / 5

6 ratings

Contact Loving Differently Podcast

Guest appearances

Does not typically book guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.