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Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast

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by Kari Doherty

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An exploration of the intersections of yogic philosophy, twelve step recovery wisdom, and a little yoga practice for embodied understanding. You can use this podcast as a resource if you need a little calm, a little laugh, or you're in crisis and don't want to feel alone. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too. Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast is hosted by Kari Doherty--RYT-500, Certified Yoga of 12 Step Recovery Space Holder, and Yogi in Recovery.

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May 15, 2023

Taking a break | Burnout

Taking a break | Burnout ❤️Welcome to the Luminous Recovery Yoga YouTube channel! Our mission is to create high-quality yoga videos for people in Twelve Step Recovery programs. In these videos you will find simple, but powerful yoga and meditation practices that support sustainable recovery. We welcome all levels, all bodies, all genders, and all recovery programs! SUBSCRIBE to the channel to join our recovery family! Discover new yoga practices and recovery themed talks that include recovery principles with yoga. Learn what it feels like to practice these principles in all of your poses! - - - - - - - - - 📣 Please tell us what you think of this episode? - - - - - - - - - <a href= "https://www.luminousrecoveryyoga.com/free-class">➡️➡️➡️Sign up for a FREE class with me</a> - - - - - - - - - - <a href="https://bit.ly/3CaKmuY">➡️➡️➡️Join my Patreon</a> - - - - - - - - - - Omg, I did something so silly. 😂 Normally, when I produce my podcast episode, I set up the camera and film myself talking. I put that version on YouTube, and then I put an audio only version out for Apple, Spotify, etc. This week, I accidentally had the camera flipped around without knowing it. I went to a beautiful park, picked a gorgeous place to sit, and then filmed the street instead of me in the pretty spot. Lmao. The funny thing is, just like the camera was facing the wrong way, I’ve realized I’ve been pushing in the wrong direction too. I am forced to face something that I’ve avoided admitting for some time: I am deeply burnt out. Burnout is a state of emotional, physical, and mental exhaustion caused by excessive and prolonged stress. It's characterized by feelings of overwhelming fatigue, cynicism, detachment, and feelings of ineffectiveness or lack of accomplishment. If you’ve never experienced burnout—and I hope you haven’t—it feels like the kind of tiredness that sleep cannot cure. It’s beyond exhaustion. And it’s affected how I’m showing up as a teacher and in my whole life. What I know is that the cure for this type of burnout is savasana—deep rest. I often say when students lie down for final resting pose: “Rest requires as much practice as work itself.” It’s time for me to practice savasana for myself right now. Starting June 1st, I’ll be taking June, July, and August off for recovery and deep rest. That means no live classes or new video content. My hope is that with some rest I’ll rediscover my passions and have something new to share. In this week’s episode of the Luminous Recovery Yoga podcast, I share my process behind my need for a break. I’ve also shared how I intend to spend this time and my plans for the fall. I want to reassure you that while I'm taking a break, the podcast isn't disappearing. While new episodes won't be released for a while, there is a treasure trove of past episodes that you can explore and revisit on my YouTube channel. It's my hope that these episodes can continue to provide guidance, inspiration, and company during your yoga journey, even while I'm recharging. Currently, my plan is to head to Mexico for the summer. I’ll recuperate on the beach in the sun. I’ve been craving that for years. For the fall, I’ve been accepted in the Master’s of Business Administration (MBA) program at Portland State University. I’m definitely not done with yoga. But, I need to change my relationship with how I do things right now. I’m rediscovering my own practice and need to cultivate stillness on my mat. One of the most important yogic principles is sthira sukha asanam, or the balanced action between effort and ease. It’s about knowing when to retreat and restore, and respecting the signals from our bodies. This is the lesson I’m embracing now. I hope it inspires you to listen to your own needs and grant yourself permission to rest, renew, and revitalize when needed. With love, ~Kari ⌚ SCHEDULE: ⌚ New yoga and recovery videos EVERY Monday 👉 Subscribe to my channel. And press the bell🔔 icon. Thank you for supporting “ Luminous Recovery Yoga ” you can follow me on the Social Media Links Below: ❤ Instagram: <a href= "https://bit.ly/3yCNqxe">https://bit.ly/3yCNqxe</a> ❤ Facebook: <a href= "https://bit.ly/3LdrqAN">https://bit.ly/3LdrqAN</a> ❤ Website: <a href= "https://www.luminousrecoveryyoga.com/">https://www.luminousrecoveryyoga.com/</a> ❤Patreon: <a href= "https://bit.ly/3CaKmuY">https://bit.ly/3CaKmuY</a> - - - - - - - - - - 📧 For Business Inquiries 📧 Mail: <a href= "mailto:kari@luminousrecoveryyoga.com">kari@luminousrecoveryyoga.com</a> ⚠️ "DISCLAIMER:⚠️ This Channel DOES NOT Promote or encourage Any illegal activities, all contents provided by This Channel is meant for EDUCATIONAL purpose only. ⚠️ Transcripts: ------------------------------------ taking a break === [00:00:00] Hello my friend. This is Kari and you are listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. I am in a beautiful park today, the same park that I was in last time, Laurelhurst Park in Portland, Oregon. We are having a hot AF day and everyone in Portland is out and it's beautiful and I'm so happy to be here and I'm happy to be here connecting with you. This podcast has served and does serve as a space. It's a space that I've created where I can talk about my recovery and the principles that help me in everyday life and how that relates to yoga. The physical practice, also the principles. I like to say something that I've heard one of my teachers say, we practice principles not poses. So for me, this is a principles based practice, whether I'm talking about recovery principles [00:01:00] or principles of yoga, practicing principles keeps it clean. For me, when I'm practicing principles, it's like having a roadmap. And when I have that map in front of me, I can more clearly see where I'm going. As opposed to when I'm just going on straight feelings or how I feel about a particular person or situation, that stuff fluctuates so much. I was recently asked to reflect on how my leadership stance has shifted in the last five years, and one of the things that I've really learned from recovery, I think it's tradition 12. I don't have any literature in front of me, but it's principles above personalities, and that has really helped develop my leadership stance, which is when I live a principal's based life personalities. Shift. They come, they go. There are some personalities that [00:02:00] I like and some personalities that I don't like, and that could even include myself. There are moments when I'm hungry, angry, lonely, tired, and my personality sucks. And then there are moments where I'm calm and centered and I feel clued into the world around me, and I have a shining, dazzling personality. But when I live a principal's based life, it doesn't really matter. The personality because I'm acting on principle. And so principles above personalities has really helped develop me as a leader. And so when living this principles based life and this life of recovery and learning to practice, practice these principles in my affairs, you know, it's really one of those things where I wanna practice what I preach and I'm constantly telling students, take a rest, take a break. If the pose is too much, find your wisdom posture. Find the posture that speaks to you, the pose that helps you downshift. When you lose connection [00:03:00] to your breath, find that connection first. You know, if you're in a pose that's causing your breath to get jagged or rough or you know, you're feeling that like, like panting for air stop and. I guess that's easier for me to practice when I'm in a physical pose. And one of the things that I've said frequently on this podcast is that for me, the pose is really a metaphor for life. The pose is kind of a, the micro in the macro. It's, it's what's happening right now. It's how you do anything is how you do everything. And so how I'm being in the pose is how I'm being in the world, and the pose becomes this little microcosm to see myself through. And so one of the things that I've come to realize lately is that I need rest, like full on. And, and it's the kind of rest that sleep doesn't cure. [00:04:00] It's not about sleep, rest, it's, it's deep rest. It's shavas. And my therapist always says to me, what's your Shaba practice like? And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? I don't rest. And, and it's almost, you know, it's, it's an addiction. It's, it's not, I'm not even saying workaholism, like it's some of that, but it's like that resistance to rest is an addiction to how I see myself in the world. Like I am addicted to my worldview, which is. That if I rest, I'm weak. And I know that that's not true. Like I would never say to a student who was tired, you're weak. Like that's crazy. And yet, why do I treat myself that way? Like why do I behave as though needing rest makes me a weak person? And yet I have this like thing in the back of my head where like I just don't take breaks. [00:05:00] Like I can't. I literally can't tell you the last time I took a vacation, and I don't mean like went away for a, a Saturday and Sunday night or like, but really took a vacation where I didn't work, I didn't answer emails, I didn't, you know, I wasn't planning for what I was gonna do when I got back in terms of, you know, like I, I, you know, I haven't gone anywhere further than two hours away from the office kind of a thing, you know? And so what I've really come to see is that I need rest, like the kind of rest that sleep. It's beyond sleep, you know? It, it's like there's a hunger that food won't cure and an exhaustion that sleep won't cure. It's, it's something deeper. And so I've really come to see how I need deep rest. I need Shavasana. I need corpse, like rest, like the kind of rest that. [00:06:00] Means I need to set things down. And that's really hard for me emotionally because I've really been the type of person who finds myself worth my self-worth. Self-worth came out, and that's probably a slip my self-worth based on my work, what I'm doing. You know, like that corny cliche, like you're not a human doing. You're a human being. Like it's corny and it's trite, but it's true. I have been a human doing going through all of the actions, and I could just feel myself as a nub, like a nub of a person. I have a friend who is a medical sociologist, and recently I was telling her about some of the things that I was feeling, and she told me that I have clinical burnout. Like she actually, she shared a presentation that she does. She gives this lecture based on that's about burnout with therapists. And she shared her slide [00:07:00] deck with me. I was like, what were those things that you had said again about burnout? And she shared her slide deck with me just so that I had like all of the information. But like I have clinical burnout. I was probably burned out three years ago, but now I'm really burned out. So there's this question of what is there to do about it and what there is to do about it is to take deep rest. And what that means for me, what that means for you is that I have to set everything down and I have to prioritize my rest. I have to set everything down. That includes making my podcast, that includes making YouTube videos. That includes teaching live classes. Everything that I'm doing needs to get set down. I'm at the point where I don't even have creativity left. Like if someone were to say to me, Carrie, teach a workshop, I'd be like, about what? What would I pa like? And that's [00:08:00] actually one of the signs of burnout is not being able to recognize your own progress, not being able to see your improvements. Like I can't even. Like, I, I just, I have no creativity in me. Like that's really how it feels. It's like I, I'm running on, like, we were running on fumes years ago, but now I'm running just, it's like a, like there's a part of me that feels like a shell of a person and it's probably not great that I let it get this far, but it's, I guess it's how I learn. And, you know, a year ago I probably had an opportunity to take a break. But I had left a romantic relationship. I had left a business partnership. I had left a business that I had like put so much of my time and energy into that. The thought of stopping felt. Terrifying and traumat, like as traumatizing. It's all of the change I was going through, so I decided to jump right back into work and not even jump back in. Like there was no back in. I just kept [00:09:00] going at full speed and I, I thought that I was doing something different, but it turns out I was actually just doing the same thing with new colors on it. And so now the thing that's really different, like the thing that will be the different thing is to put it all down and to take a break. So what that looks like for me is I'm going to Mexico. I'm gonna go to Mexico for a couple few months and I'm gonna relax. I'm gonna sit on the beach. I'm going to do my very, very best to not make plans. Which is funny cuz I'm like, I'm not making plans. And then I'll be like, Ooh, I could find myself making plans for, oh, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna do that thing. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're doing that thing again. Will you make plans? And we're not making plans. So I keep making plans for my unplanned time and I have to catch myself in the act while I'm doing it and be like, no, we're not doing that. We're setting that aside, like we're gonna see what happens. So I'm going to Mexico, I'm going to rest. [00:10:00] I'm going to do only what I must, which is take care of myself. And I'm gonna take the summer off, like fully, completely off. I'm setting aside any timelines for myself, any expectations. As of right now, I'm setting the podcast down. You know, there's a part of me that's like, oh, I'll be back in a month, but I don't know, you know, like, I'm gonna give myself the time to feel inspired again. Like when I feel inspired to pick up the camera and to pick up the microphone and to start talking again. That's what I really need is to feel a sense of excitement and creativity and inspiration again, because I've really sort of lost that. Like I just, sometimes I feel like I'm reaching so deep, like, oh, what am I gonna talk about? And it's like, I have tons to talk about and yet I don't like there's, there's this little spark that has, it's really dim right now, so I'm gonna take [00:11:00] time to rejuvenate to get some sun. I've been practicing yoga again, which is just phenomenal. I, it's not that I ever stopped practicing yoga, but I was going through the motions. I was, you know, mostly practicing. When I was teaching. I was really begrudging about getting on my mat. I would do it, but it was like, ah, okay. And like that might sound, you know, silly or crazy, but I had really lost like my spark for it, even though I was going through the motions. And so I've been going to yoga again. I've been taking classes back at hot yoga, which I really love. And and that's been really good. Like I really need to separate my teaching practice from my own practice. And those need to become two distinct things again, like I was really good in solid in that boundary several years ago. And that boundary has gotten really fuzzy. Those lines have really gotten fuzzy. So I'm rediscovering my own practice, like what it feels like to be [00:12:00] on the mat for myself, not having to teach other people, but just to really be focused on myself, my own breath, my body movement, how I feel. And that's been spectacular. So I'm getting back on the mat and that's wonderful. And I'm on day 373 of meditation. So meditation is going good. But I'm just, I really, I'm in like this self renaissance, like I really need to rediscover myself. And then another big thing that's coming up is I'm actually going to grad school starting in September, 2023. I'm going to grad school to get an mba, a Master's of Business administration. I love business. I love being in business. I, one of the things I love most about having a yoga studio is having a business. And so I've decided I wanna go deeper into my business practice. One of the things that Portland State University is known for is sustainability and innovation. And, [00:13:00] and that's like what I really want is sustainability and innovation. One of the things that I have not found in business for myself is sustainability. Like I have been my own worst boss. I work myself to the bone. I've never had a boss who worked me to the bone, like I worked myself to the bone. So when I say sustainability, it's like it's micro and it's macro. It's sustainability of society, of structures, of systems, but it's also sustainability of self. Like being able to get up day after day after day and do the things that need to be done and not feel like I'm burning myself into the ground, which I have not figured out how to do yet. So when I say sustainability and innovation, I mean for business, but I also mean for me. So that's what I'm doing is I'm resting, I'm gonna take the summer to rest and, and then I'm gonna go to grad school and I'm gonna see how I feel. I'm gonna see if that spark comes back, that creativity, that [00:14:00] feeling of, yes, I want this, I wanna do this. Cause right now nothing sounds good. Which is another. Manifestation of burnout is that nothing sounds good. Like if you were to say to me, do you wanna do X, Y, or Z? I would be like, none of those things. Like I just, I don't even know what sounds good to me anymore, but I do know what sounds good is taking a break, taking an extended vacation, taking a sabbatical, if you will. The thing about sabbatical is that there's this. Like, you're gonna come back and right now I just don't know what I'm doing. You know, I want to believe that I'll come back to teaching, but I don't know what that will look like because right now, I, I, my creativity for it is so diminished. So right now I need to back it all up. I need to set it all down and I need to rejuvenate like deep rest. That's the only way I could really say it is deep rest, not sleep. Sleep is fine. I sleep well. I [00:15:00] sleep plenty. Although, you know, I don't take a day off, like even like Sunday, which is my day off is the day that I write my newsletter and produce my podcast. And, you know, I, I actually at this point in time, don't have one day that is dedicat dedicated to me. Every day has something that I'm doing for whether it's my business or for my day job or. You know, even working my program, you know, all of the things, it, it's, it takes up my whole week and there isn't one day that is set aside for me, and that is my own shortcoming. Like I did that. So I need to rediscover what it feels like to give myself time and space and prioritize myself and take care of myself. And the only way that I know how to do that right now is by setting everything down, because I've really lost my way. I, I really just need to set it all aside because I don't know what brings me joy. I have lost my sense of joy. And[00:16:00] and there's this dullness to that. Like nothing tastes quite good. Nothing sounds quite good. There's this dullness to how I feel about myself and the world around me. There's a melancholy a cynicism. And again, all classical signs of burnout. I'm just emotionally tapped out signs of burnout, and I've been saying that I've been burnt out for years. And so what there is to do about that is to set it all down and to take a break. So that's what this is. This is me telling you my wonderful, beautiful listener. That I am going to be taking a break, and when it's time for me to return, you'll be rehearsed to know. So in the meantime, I've got, I think, like 180 YouTube videos. So, you know, you could go back into the archives, like, I've made so many different practice videos and different episodes of this podcast. So please feel free [00:17:00] to dip your toes into the, the content that I've created and I'm hoping that, that, you know, that lives on the internet in perpetuity. So. Take the time that you need to go through that stuff and when I feel rested and rejuvenated, I'll be back. And in the meantime, take care of yourself. I love you. I appreciate you, and when I feel rested and strong again, I will be back here with you. And with that being said, I'll see you later.

May 1, 2023

Ep. 31 | Recovery from Cannabis Use Disorder | My Sober Story | Meditation

My Recovery from Cannabis Use Disorder | My Sober Story | Meditation ❤️Welcome to the Luminous Recovery Yoga YouTube channel! Our mission is to create high-quality yoga videos for people in Twelve Step Recovery programs. In these videos you will find simple, but powerful yoga and meditation practices that support sustainable recovery. We welcome all levels, all bodies, all genders, and all recovery programs! SUBSCRIBE to the channel to join our recovery family! Discover new yoga practices and recovery themed talks that include recovery principles with yoga. Learn what it feels like to practice these principles in all of your poses! - - - - - - - - - Join the Luminous Recovery Yoga online studio! Your online membership includes LIVE weekly yoga classes with Kari and access to a full video-on-demand library with styles like Vinyasa, Yang/Yin, Mellow flows, Power flows, and Recovery themed yoga practices. This is your one stop shop for yoga, recovery, meditation, and all things Luminous! 📣 Please tell us what you think of this video ? - - - - - - - - - <a href= "https://www.luminousrecoveryyoga.com/free-class">➡️➡️➡️Sign up for a FREE class with me</a> - - - - - - - - - - <a href="https://bit.ly/3CaKmuY">➡️➡️➡️Join my Patreon</a> - - - - - - - - - - One of the habits I resolved to give up a few years ago was looking at my phone first thing in the morning. Inevitably, there was usually a text, email, or communication that would inspire me to become immediately crabby upon waking. I started to notice how this behavior could spiral into a whole morning, or even full day, of aggravation—not good. <h3 dir="ltr">The changed behavior was to get out of bed and head to my meditation cushion first thing.</h3> In fact, the rule became no phone contact until I’ve done my prayer and meditation practice. Excepttttttttttttt, if I decided to blow off meditation that morning. I could come up with all kinds of reasons to blow off my practice for the day. Some of the excuses ranged from ‘it’s Sunday and I don’t meditate on Sunday’ to 'I slept late and I just don’t feel like it’. I could be pretty consistent unless I didn’t want to and then I would break the chain—so to speak. <h3 dir="ltr">Well, last April I didn’t meditate at all. Not one day in the whole month. </h3> I was traveling and it felt inconvenient. By the time I got home from all the traveling I felt like a basket case. I was tired of my excuses for not committing to a daily meditation practice. I decided to commit to a one-year daily meditation practice. Every day, no matter what, I would sit on the cushion as soon as I woke up and practice. May 4th, 2023 will be my one-year meditation-aversary. Ok, I’ll just go ahead and say it—May The Fourth Be With You! <h3 dir="ltr">One of the major life changes—among many—to happen for me this year has been sobriety. </h3> It’s not lost on me that my sobriety journey also fell within my one year of meditation commitment. I am learning to hone in on one of the hardest things of all—how to sit with my feelings of discomfort rather than reaching for something to put in my mouth and change the subject. This year I have learned how to be with myself in a whole new way. I am embracing the practice of feeling my feelings rather than turning them away. In this week’s episode of the Luminous Recovery Yoga podcast I decided I wanted to share more about my journey to sobriety and healing from cannabis use disorder. It’s not that meditation got me sober, but meditation has helped me to get present. My general M.O. for using substances—especially smoking pot— was to actively escape the present moment. <h3 dir="ltr">I want to be clear that I do not believe that everyone who uses cannabis has a substance use disorder. </h3> But my usage became obsessive and something I was finally ready to look at more closely. In my active pursuit of a daily meditation practice I am learning how to heal my relationship with the present moment. There have been many mornings where I wake up with big feelings. I go to my cushion, and I sit with the physical sensations that I’m experiencing in the moment. I am learning that emotions arise as physical sensations in the body. I first revealed my sobriety during my interview episode with Durga Leela <a href= "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-28-discover-the-secret-of-yoga-based-recovery/id1631244226?i=1000605046675"> (find that episode here)</a>. As a result of that episode I had many people reach out with questions and comments, so I decided it was time to spend an episode talking more about it. I share only my experience, strength, and hope in recovering. This is in no way representative of any program or specific method. It just felt like time to share. If you’re curious about starting a daily meditation practice or sobriety and you need support, or have questions, please feel free to respond to this email. If you find this episode helpful, I would love it if you share it, comment on it, like it, and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Happy May Day! With love, ~Kari ⌚ SCHEDULE: ⌚ New yoga and recovery videos EVERY Monday 👉 Subscribe to my channel. And press the bell🔔 icon. Thank you for supporting “ Luminous Recovery Yoga ” you can follow me on the Social Media Links Below: ❤ Instagram: <a href= "https://bit.ly/3yCNqxe">https://bit.ly/3yCNqxe</a> ❤ Facebook: <a href= "https://bit.ly/3LdrqAN">https://bit.ly/3LdrqAN</a> ❤ Website: <a href= "https://www.luminousrecoveryyoga.com/">https://www.luminousrecoveryyoga.com/</a> ❤Patreon: <a href= "https://bit.ly/3CaKmuY">https://bit.ly/3CaKmuY</a> - - - - - - - - - - 📧 For Business Inquiries 📧 Mail: <a href= "mailto:kari@luminousrecoveryyoga.com">kari@luminousrecoveryyoga.com</a> ⚠️ "DISCLAIMER:⚠️ This Channel DOES NOT Promote or encourage Any illegal activities, all contents provided by This Channel is meant for EDUCATIONAL purpose only. ⚠️ Transcripts: ------------------------------------ My sober story === Kari Doherty: [00:00:00] Thank you for listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast, hosted by Kari Doherty. The views and opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. These views and opinions do not represent any specific 12 step program, only my experience, strength, and hope in recovering from the dise of addiction and codependency. If you'd like to learn more, please visit my website at www. Dot Luminous Recovery yoga.com. Hello my friend. Thank you so much for joining me today on this episode of the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. I'm Kari, and welcome to today. I am in a beautiful Portland Park, Laurelhurst Park. It is an amazing sunny day. And I thought, what better than to just take my camera and my tripod outside and to film an episode? Which is funny, like I have this moment of needing [00:01:00] to get over myself. Like, oh my gosh, people are gonna see me talking to myself. Well, I see people talking to themselves all the time. I think that's one of the interesting things about Bluetooth is when Bluetooth started to really pick up. I had this like is that person talking to themself or are they having a full-blown conversation? Because sometimes you really don't know, like you see people talking to themselves all the time in Portland and you don't really know who they're talking to, whether it's like an ethereal being or somebody on the other line of a phone. So I had to get over myself for a minute of like, yeah, I'm gonna do this here because. This is where I want to enjoy myself today, and yes, I'm going to perhaps be seen in the park by people. Doing something that they don't know what I'm doing. So here I am. I found a cozy, beautiful little nook in the park and I'm so grateful to be outside. I'm so grateful that the season is changing. It's almost hard to be grumpy when the sun is [00:02:00] out. Like I could feel sometimes like that urge to complain or gripe, but. When the sun is out and it's warm, it just feels harder to get those thoughts to penetrate through. So anyway, with all of that being said, if you hear some noises or see somebody passing behind me on a trail, that's because I am out and about in the world and I wanted to take this time to stop and talk to you today. So I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much for sharing this space with me. This is a place where I like to come and share. I share about what I'm going through in the world, how that relates to my recovery, how that relates to yoga. I like to share a little yoga at the end of the practice with what I call embodied understanding, where we practice these principles in our affairs and our affairs. Could be. Situations that we're going through in the world, but our affairs could also be our yoga poses or just the places [00:03:00] where we find our body in space, whether that's in a situation or a moment in time. So practicing these principles can become a way to try them on in our body to see how it feels to put that practice into place in the moment. Recovery only ever happens in the moment. That's one of the things that I'm really, I've been thinking about a lot lately, is that recovery happens in the moment. I don't recover in the past. I don't recover in the future. I don't breathe in the past. I don't breathe in the future. All of those things happen in the moment, so in a, in a moment where I'm activated, right, where like where my nervous system is activated, where I'm. You know, hungry, angry, lonely, tired, or there's a situation that's bringing stuff up in those moments where I choose not to use a substance or abuse myself in some way, or send a vicious text or [00:04:00] email, any of those moments where I choose to be present with the experience that my body is going through. Those are the moments that I recover. Those are the moments where I call my spirit back from the people, places, situations, things, moments where I tend to lose my grip on reality, where I tend to act out, and any moment that I choose to not act out in any of those behaviors, I am calling myself home. I am calling myself back to the present moment, to be in the experience of the emotion. Of the feeling. And you know, I, I read lately, and I've talked about this before on the podcast, that I think I just read this in the New York Times. That's what it was. And if it's in the New York Times, it must be true. Well, you know, I read the New York Times every day and they have some good stuff in there. And one of the things that I read recently was that emotions, when we experience them, when we [00:05:00] take the time to be with it, we are much more likely to pass through it. It's when we don't experience it, it's when we shove it aside or shove it down or cover it up with a behavior that we extend. The experience that we make. It really a longer experience. So the more able we are to experience the emotion, the feeling in the present moment, the more likely it is to pass. And, and I can say that from experience lately, the more I'm willing to sit in the muck of the feeling, the sooner I am able to move through it. I like to say one of my little quips, my little isms it's like sitting in a pile of your own shit and wondering what smells. And if you're sitting in cold, old, crusty shit and it, that smell just follows you around, right? Rather than being like, oh no, [00:06:00] I'm sitting in shit. This stinks. I'm gonna go bathe. I'm gonna go wash this smell off of me. And that's kind of how I see the emotion. It's like I could sit there in the experience of like, oh my gosh, I just sat in shit or stepped in shit. I need to acknowledge that, be in that, and then, Go get myself clean as opposed to ignoring the smell, right, ignoring the smell, pretending it's not happening. And yet that smell just keeps lingering around me. And, and so I guess that's the analogy that I can make around that, that it, that makes sense in my head. So let's see if that lands on you. So I'm here in this beautiful place. I'm here with you, my dear friend. And. I've got some things on my mind today that I want to talk about. First I wanna say, if you're new to the podcast, welcome. I'm Carrie. I'm so happy to be here with you. I'm a person in recovery. I'm recovering from [00:07:00] codependency bad attitudes recovering from mood altering people, recovering from cannabis addiction and food addiction. And you know, sometimes anything I can get my hands on can become. An obsession. So I suffer from obsessive behavior, whether that's people food or substance. And so what I wanna say is welcome that, I'm glad you're here. I have created this space as a place to share because I find that sharing. Is is good for me. It helps me to process and to understand myself better in the world. But also when we listen to other people sharing, if we're listening, we could hear our own story in somebody else's share. So if there's anything that I say today that resonates with you, I'm grateful. I'm grateful that my experience can benefit you in some way because it's in listening to the experiences of others that I've been able to recover myself. Bring in more recovery. I [00:08:00] never say that I'm recovered. That's like jinxing it, right? We're never recovered. We're always in recovery. Practicing recovery. Our recovery time gets quicker if we stick with it. Sometimes not, sometimes, you know, they say that you gain a second of pause for every year you've been in recovery. I'm coming up on seven years, so possibly a seven second pause. But I'm glad you're here. And please, if you wanna help a fellow creator out like the episode, hit that little thumb up icon. Share the episode. If you found something valuable and you think somebody else would find this valuable, please share it and subscribe to my channel. Whether that's, if you're listening to this on podcasts like Apple, Spotify, or anywhere where you take in your podcasts, or if you're listening to this on YouTube, I would just love to build a community of people who are interested in yoga and recovery, because that's actually what really is [00:09:00] interesting to me. I developed yoga and recovery alongside of each other. I found both of those practices at roughly the same time in my life, and so, I noticed that things that were happening in the meetings were also things that were coming up on the map. And so my recovery journey has evolved where those two practices have helped me a lot. So that's why I bring these things together because I find that I can't quite separate them and, and that it, it actually works better together for me. Okay, because I've got the emotional, mental stuff, but then I also am in this physical body and I learn how to try these principles on in my physical body, which goes back to what I was saying earlier, embodied understanding because 100% of our experiences happen through this body. So our body holds a lot of that story, a lot of that trauma. If you want to go that way. A lot of whatever is going on with us happens in the body. So [00:10:00] one of the things that I wanna talk about today, or the topic of today's share and episode is my cannabis use disorder. I came out a few months ago, let's see, it's like April right now. And so I actually, it was like last month that I released an episode with Durga, who is the creator of Yoga of Recovery. And in that episode I. Revealed for the first time on this podcast that I have. As of today, right now I'm going on coming up on nine months of sobriety. Actually it's eight months in this month. It's eight months of sobriety. And, and what was funny is that after I came out and said that on the episode, I had many people get ahold of me asking me about it cuz it's not something that I've talked about a whole lot. Partly because I was still trying to understand it, and so it's something newer to [00:11:00] me, but I feel like more and more I'm ready to talk about it and, and this is kind of a place where I have created to do that. So I'm gonna talk about it here. And you know, since I've embraced sobriety, It's, you know, things don't necessarily get easier. They, they get a little bit simpler in that I'm not adding in additional things on top of whatever's going on. But for me, I always raced to the bong. That was a place where I found solace. Getting high. Smoking weed. That was one of my very first outside of food, which is something that I learned at a very young age as far as a, a way to deal with stress. Weed was like the second substance I ever picked up in terms of a way to [00:12:00] manage stress. And it's funny cause I'll never forget the first time I got high. I was a junior in high school. And I was tutoring middle school choir or something like that. It was like middle school music. Cause I was into choir in high school and I was helping for. You know, credit, I was doing tutoring in the middle school, and I remember the middle schoolers, which as middle schoolers are, were particularly terrible on this particular day, and they were so terrible and so rough that I found myself rattled. Like just absolutely rattled and I couldn't shake it. And so I remember going into chemistry, like I went back to the high school cuz I would go offsite for this tutoring. I went back to the high school and I was in chemistry and I just remember sitting in my desk being like deeply stressed and couldn't seem to shake [00:13:00] this feeling of induced stress. And so I remember, I think it was that day or that. Afternoon after school, I called up one of my best friends and I was like, today's the day I'm ready to get high. And there was like something in me that knew that a substance would help me unravel this stress, at least at that time. So I remember going over to my friend's house, they got me high for the first time. Still love these people. These are still beautiful people in my life. But I remember the first time I ever smoked weed was because I was stressed. And in that moment, I think that's how, like that became a new way to de-stress through a substance. And what's funny is that as my life progressed, stress became a really easy way to be like, oh, I gotta get high because I'm stressed. And so it, it just, I really associated that behavior with how to [00:14:00] unstress myself. And that could probably show up in lots of different ways for lots of people. Like how you first learned to deal with stress. And for me it started out with food and then it evolved into cannabis use. And at the time, I mean this was like, Hey, this was the early two thousands, like took a lot to get weed, took a lot to find it. It took a lot to get ahold of it. You had to go find a place to smoke it, which was never like at home, which usually resulted in driving around in a car also a. Weird behavior to pick up at a young age. Like, yeah, let's drive around and get high. So, you know, I'm just bringing you my honesty, unfiltered, raw because this is the way I experience it. And so then I went to college and I remember I had a rule at first. I would only get high on the weekends and then a friend. Who again, still [00:15:00] love. This person today suggested to me one day, Hey, let's get high tonight. And I was like, well, I have homework to do. And she said, well, after your homework is done. And I was like, oh, I don't have to wait till the weekend. I just have to get my homework done. So I got my homework done. We went, we smoked weed, and I started smoking weed every day after that. I mean, it really only took one person to give me permission. That I was looking for, like it, it really was a lot of times at that time based on exterior validation of like someone being like, no, you could just do it this way. And then being like, oh, okay. So from then on I just started getting high every day. Like, okay, get the homework done, let's go get high. And then it creeped into let's get high early in the morning before class. Like, I mean, it just started to really creep into one permission, led to. Well, if it's okay to do it after school, once my homework is done, then why not in between class? Why not before class? Why not in the morning? As soon as I wake [00:16:00] up, why not have it on the table while I'm eating dinner? Like it just became this behavior that crept into every single facet of my life. And at that time, the obsession grew and, and I say at that time, and this was all up until eight months ago. You know, so like this crept into a, an addiction of over 15 years that like became really, like deeply habitual, deeply addictive for me. I recently read in the New York Times that really only 10% of people developed cannabis use disorder, and I was definitely in that 10% where I just found that. It could help with all of life's troubles, whatever it was. If I was happy, if I was sad, if I was stressed, if I was relaxed, like I greeted every moment, every emotion, every mood with a bong hit. Like that was just how I was managing the [00:17:00] world and, and I've been thinking about this lately. You know, I would, I would think like, oh, well that person doesn't smoke weed. I don't really want to be friends with them. Like, what are, you know, what are we gonna do together? And what I realize now is that it, weed was the friend, it was almost like weed was the friend. And it's like, oh, well you have to be cool with my friend here. And if you're not cool with my friend here, then you and I aren't gonna be cool. And of course I wasn't like, not cool with people who didn't smoke weed, but I certainly didn't really consider going deeper into those connections. I think I have one committed friend who didn't smoke weed and she would like sit in the car with me while I did it or something. And like, as long as she was okay with being in the car, you know, like it, when I think back to it and I think of the harm on myself and others, like, there was just a lot going on, you know, and I met plenty of people who supported that obsession. So it, it wasn't unsupported, it was very much. Easy to find friends who [00:18:00] only imbibed in cannabis, you know, and then it went on past college. It, it really went on and on and on and on. You know, my usage could get heavier or pull back a little bit depending on where I was living and how easy or hard it was it was to get. But then once I moved to Portland and it became legal and. And I became a business owner where I didn't have a boss and, and suddenly there was nobody telling me it was inappropriate to get high in the middle of the day. Sure, there were people who probably, if they knew, would've thought that was inappropriate, but I just kept that to myself. And so there really were no limits on who, what, where, when, why, and how. I think the only real boundary I had for myself around it is that I don't get high right before I teach a yoga class. I ca that was a boundary I had for me because I just didn't like the way I felt. So it, you know, and then as the years [00:19:00] progressed within the last year, you know, it really hit its head like, like any addiction. It really peaked because I was under so much deep stress, so much deep stress in every area of my life, romantically, financially. My, my work life, everything was so deeply stressed that. It was like I was living to get high. Like, I can't even tell you. It was like, it was the first thing I did in the morning. It was the first thing I did before I like, like I, I would gauge how far I needed to go out into the world and how soon I could come back to get high if I needed to bring it with me. It was the first thing I did as soon as I left work. It's like it would get me there and it would get me home. Like it, it just became like, Obsessive, like I, I, I don't even know what words to use to describe how deeply obsessive it became. And, and what was interesting is that I didn't really know it was still a problem, like at that time because I really still thought it was the solution. [00:20:00] I really still thought that that's the thing that was helping. About a couple years ago I got diagnosed with asthma. And I was devastated, partly because I'm a smoker and I was, and I said to the pulmonologist, I was like, well I smoke weed. And she looked at me like a scumbag and was like, well, you need to stop that right away. And I was like, who the frick are you lady? Like, who? What do you know about me? You know, I got mad at her. So then I decided to try to switch to vaping. That didn't work. I went back to smoking immediately. Because it is, it's the smoking. It's like that's the part that I loved the most was the smoking. I mean, and the getting high part, but the smoking was a ritual. So I eventually, in the last eight months, like it got to a point where I couldn't. I couldn't do anything without it. Like I was feeling dead inside. And then with all of the loss that I experienced with you know, my [00:21:00] business and I had a romantic partnership that dissolved, like there was so much high emotion that I was just completely feeling dead inside. Like, I don't know how else to describe it. It was dark, it was numb, and I finally got to a point. Before I was getting high and I didn't even want to, and I didn't know how to stop. And that's the part that got dark and scary is I was like, okay, I don't even want this anymore and I don't know how to stop. And then, you know, that's where higher power steps in. I wanted to quit. There was this one day where I decided I had put away my bong. I had put everything away cause I had a friend coming over who did not smoke. And I thought, oh, let me put all this away so she doesn't see it. Cause I was hiding it at that point. I was hiding how much I was using. And so I put it away for this friend to come over. And then I thought later, what if I just kept it put away? [00:22:00] Like, what if we just tried, you know, like I'm, I've been in recovery for years, not sobriety. But recovery for other things. And so I'm very aware of one day at a time. I'm very aware of all of those moments where we have to make choices for ourselves, where we have to choose, do I still want to engage in this behavior? And it really just come, comes down to moment to moment choice. So I made a choice, okay, I'm gonna keep this stuff away. I woke up the next day and I didn't get high in the morning and I was so grumpy about it and really irritable. And I had a Y 12 SR meeting that evening and this lovely soul came over and I shared that I had eight hours of sobriety from cannabis. And she was so loving and so supportive. And this person also Main, their main addiction was also cannabis, which it's like how perfect [00:23:00] that on like the day that you quit your behavior, you come into contact with a person who has sobriety and struggled with the same exact thing. Like that to me is where I see higher power, where I see a power greater than me. Intervening in this obsession. So anyway, this person asked if I wanted their spon, if they, if they, I wanted them to sponsor me to help, to help. I said, yes, please. And I've had sobriety ever since. And it was hard at first, but it wasn't actually as hard as I thought it would be. I would certainly think about it. There was almost this thing where I didn't know what to do with my hands. I was like, but what do I do with my hands? Well, you just put 'em down, relax them on your thighs and take a deep breath. And I just, I can't even tell you like the relief. And you know, even those moments where [00:24:00] stressful things would come up and I would be like, oh my gosh, I wanna get high right now. And I would choose not to. I would choose not to act on the behavior, and that is for me, what I see as the recovery. Those moments where I'm triggered, where I'm activated, and the choice becomes to act out to use or to find a different tool. And it was moment to moment, finding different tools, finding new tools, and. You know, an interesting thing is I've got 360 days. So I'm about five days short as of today, right now when I'm filming this, of having a one year long meditation practice, 365 days. That was my goal when I originally set out to have one complete year of. Uninterrupted meditation because last year was such a shit show and when everything was getting really hard, I actually didn't meditate for 30 whole [00:25:00] days. And the day that I sat back down on my cushion after I hadn't sat for a whole month, I thought I am going to sit for a whole year, every day uninterrupted, because I always found different ways to interrupt my practice. Whether it was like, eh, I don't meditate on Sundays, or, eh, I don't feel like it today, or Eh, I slept in and I just want to get to coffee in the news. I could always find excuses to not sit down and meditate. So I embarked on a one year long everyday meditation practice and as of today, I have 360 days, so by the time this comes out, I will probably have already hit 365 and that is so wonderful. And so when I actually, and I'm making this connection right here in the moment that within the same year that I embarked on a year long, Everyday meditation practice that I also found sobriety. Like that's not a coincidence to me. It's not a coincidence, and I'm not saying that like it's because I [00:26:00] meditate that I found sobriety. I'm not saying that at all. But what I'm saying is that the practice of meditation has helped me to get more equipped to be in the present moment because. That is the practice of meditation. It's the practice of getting present. It's an access to the present moment, and one of the things that I have learned, In this year of sobriety in this eight months so far of sobriety in the, in this year of meditation, is that I recover in the present moment and the more willing I am to get present to what's happening, the more I'm able to manage what's happening, feel the feelings, experience what I'm experiencing, and not turn that moment over to a substance. And not decide to change the channel by getting high or reaching for something or drinking. I gave up drinking, and I'll just say this as an aside. I gave up drinking because drinking makes me wanna smoke pot. [00:27:00] So alcohol has certainly been a problem in the past in terms of like in my twenties, obviously I'd have messy moments, but alcohol was not something that I reached for. Alcohol was not. Difficult for me to give up, and I know that that is not true for everybody and not everybody needs sobriety. I, I am not here even in any way suggesting that you need to get sober if you're not. Like, that is not it at all. I am sharing my experience with my cannabis use disorder. And tying in now how meditation, actually, when I line it up, the one year anniversary coming up of my one year of meditation and eight months of sobriety, how those things have developed alongside for me, my recovery and my yoga, right? Like meditation is a yoga practice. And how those things really have lined up for me, and I'm actually making that connection right here in the moment. That actually wasn't something I was even thinking [00:28:00] about when I decided I wanted to sit here and share this with you. I'm still learning how to get present. One of the things I heard in a meeting once that was so like revolutionary to me was that I am learning how to recover my relationship to the present moment. And that that is a part of recovery. Learning how to heal my relationship to the present moment because in the present moment, that's when I want to act out. If I'm triggered, if I'm angry and I want to hurt somebody or say something mean, or whatever it is, whatever behavior I pick up, whatever character defect I choose to go deeper into in that moment, the present moment has helped me. To get more in reality, to feel what's going on rather than changing the channel. And for me, cannabis was a really big way to change the channel. If you listened to my episode with [00:29:00] Dural, Durga said that A, any anything can fall under three categories, a food, a medicine, or a poison. And you know, there may have been times where cannabis had been medicinal, but for the most part, the way I've used it, it's been a poison. And I'm not saying that everybody who uses it is, is using it as poison. It is a medicine. It also is, you know, different manifestations of it are food. But for me it was a poison. It was something that I was using to corrupt my relationship to the present moment, to really disengage with presence and. I'm learning how to heal that relationship, my relationship to the present moment. So, ooh, I really wanted to share that story. I really wanted to share about sobriety because as I said, when I brought it up before I had people ask me about it and I, you know, I'm learning [00:30:00] more and more what it feels like to get honest. And so part of my new layer of honesty is, Getting honest about sobriety and getting honest with sobriety, I could say that having eight months of sobriety as of now, I really feel like the obsession has been lifted. I don't, I don't think about it very much. When I have moments of upset or trigger, I don't feel an urge to reach for it. And that is just, I can't even tell you the gift, like the gift that is, that I have been lifted of this obsession. I have other obsessions, right? Because like one obsession goes, other obsessions can come. But right now, lately I don't feel completely steeped in obsession when it comes to substance. I feel so relieved. I feel like I've been. Like, I feel this is something I heard Baron Baptist say in a training once. I [00:31:00] feel like it gave me up, like I didn't give up weed. Weed gave me up. It let its grip off of me. It, it let, its hold off of me and I don't feel like it's something I had to really claw my way out of. Once I decided, once I made that decision to give it up, I'm thinking about step two in this moment. Made a decision to turn or is that step three? Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God. As we understood God that Step three made a decision, like I think about that a lot, made a decision, made a decision, means that there's choice, made a decision means that moment to moment, I'm making all kinds of decisions and the decision to give up cannabis use. And to turn that over to a power greater than me and to turn the moments where I'm struggling over to a [00:32:00] power greater than me has been such a gift and I'm so grateful. So thank you for letting me share. Thank you for letting me share about this topic. This is something that I've been wanting to share about and was feeling a little apprehensive. There's also that, oh my goodness, what will people think of me? And you know, I don't know what other people think of me is none of my business. So if anything, I hope that you heard something today that helps you or maybe getting to know me a little bit better. Or maybe there's something in your life that you're struggling with and, and you haven't been able to see it until now, right? Like that's what sharing does is it gives us an opportunity to tap into what somebody else is going through. I like to think of it as looking under the hood. Right. Like we get to look under the hood of what somebody else's life is like, and that is so helpful. You know, in just the time that I have quit smoking, I've shared with a number of friends that I quit smoking, which has inspired new behaviors for other people, and I don't share it. So that they change, [00:33:00] I don't share it so that it's like, oh, I'm gonna share this with you, with the underlying motive that you're gonna want to quit too. But sometimes you're just waiting for somebody to say something to help you to make a new choice. Like I told you when that friend was like, oh, well, once your homework's done, you could get high. Like I was just waiting for someone to give me permission. And so maybe you're waiting for someone to give you permission in a different way. The way I was waiting for someone to give me permission in a different way, so. That's why I think sharing helps is that sometimes we could say something that just sparks or plants a new seed in somebody else. So maybe you're not struggling with cannabis, maybe you're struggling with something else that you're like, gosh, I really wanna give this thing up and I don't know how made a decision, make a decision, make a choice one day at a time, moment to moment, and it's not even one day at a time. Sometimes it's breath by breath. Hour by hour, minute by minute. Sometimes we can't even think of one day at a time because that is just even too big of its own. So [00:34:00] whatever it is, whatever timeframe you're working on, I am here to tell you that you get to make choices and that life is a series, a sequence of choices built together. Choice by choice, by choice. And so if there's anything that I can offer you today, it's what do you want? What do you want in your life? And what decisions do you need to make for you? And I hope that you heard something today. That helps. So from here, now I'm gonna transition to a really gentle yoga practice guided by the breath. Simple. We're gonna sit right here. I'm gonna sit right here. You can sit wherever you are. I do suggest that you don't do this in a car. So if you're listening to this while you're driving, do this part later or do this part when you're in a safe place to maybe even close your eyes. So we'll transition to yoga and it'll be simple, [00:35:00] it'll be pretty brief, but just something to let this all land. To let these words land in your body and to notice how you're feeling today. So with that being said, I'll see you in a moment and we'll transition to yoga. Okay my friend. Welcome back Here. We are still on the mat and. We've transitioned into the yoga portion of the episode. So this is for embodied understanding to practice these principles in our poses, in our physical body, and to see what it feels like to try this on in the physical realm. So one of the things I shared today is how I've embarked on a one year long meditation journey, and I'm at three day, 360 and I'm, I'm. Let, let's bring that in. Let's bring in a little bit of sitting, so. Begin with a comfortable seat. If you have a pillow, a cushion, or [00:36:00] something that you can elevate your hips a little higher than your knees. I'm actually on a slope right now, a little bit slanted, so I could feel that my hips are a little bit higher than my knees, and this helps to elongate the spine. So something that you can sit on that will just give you a little bit of lift, might be helpful. Find a comfortable resting position for your hands. It could be palms down. Palms up. One hand resting inside of the other with your thumb tips, touching, but someplace to put your hands that keeps them free of distraction. Something comfortable. Next, lift your shoulders up to your ears. Roll them down your back. Lift the crown of your head up towards the sky or the ceiling, wherever you are. And if it's comfortable to you, close your eyes. That is not necessary, but it may or may not feel good to you. So if it feels good to close your eyes, I'm going to close my eyes and start by noticing your breath.[00:37:00] Notice the sound of your breath. I'm right now in a space where I could hear other people around. I hear someone playing some gentle music in the background, and even among all of the sounds, identify your own sound, the sound of your breath. Is the sound of life itself moving through you? Because without breath, there is no life. At least human life is 100% reliant on breath.[00:38:00] And so begin by connecting to this vital life force energy. Feel the gentle rise and fall of your belly and your chest. Notice how you feel. You don't have to call it anything or name it. You don't have to categorize it. Notice how you feel. Get present to the experience. Of your physical body,[00:39:00] notice any sensations. Notice the temperature of your skin. Notice any points of contact between your body and the floor or other parts of your body touching each other, like your feet or your hands, and your legs. And just take this moment to notice yourself to be [00:40:00] present to what's happening right now. Drop your chin to your chest, roll your head over to the left and to the right and take some gentle neck rolls. Move from side to side. In any direction, at any pace that feels good to you, and reach your arms up over your head, interlace all 10 of your fingers. Flip your palms to the sky and take a full stretch.[00:41:00] Drop your right hand to the floor, stretch your left fingers over, and if it feels okay, look up. Reach both arms. Back up overhead. Take a big, full stretch. Drop your left hand down to the floor, reach your right fingertips over, and if it feels okay, look up and slowly come back up to center. Bring your left hand to your right knee. Cross over your body tent, your right fingertips behind you. We're coming into a twist. Take a breath in to lift the crown of your head up and then gently [00:42:00] twist. And if it's possible, look in the direction of your left shoulder, your right shoulder. Take a breath in and a breath out. Make your way back to the center and we'll switch to the other side. Right hand to left knee, left fingertips come behind you. Start by taking a breath to lift the crowd of your head. Turn, twist, breath in. Breath out. Gently come back to the center, bring your hands to your knees, start to move your torso in some circles, pick any direction and begin to [00:43:00] move at any pace that feels good to you. I want you to imagine that you were a spatula scraping the edges of a big bowl. So just make some big scoopy sweepy. Movements that feel good to you, and when it feels natural and organic, you will switch to the other direction. So just start to move in the opposite direction and you can involve your head and your neck. Anything that feels good to you, move organically. Move intuitively. Be in the moment with your body. Hmm. Gently come back up to a seat. We'll take some seated cat cow. [00:44:00] Start by hands on your knees, pull your chest forward, draw your shoulder blades in, and then round your back. Tuck your chin to your chest. Do a few more like that. Lift the center of your chest, round your back. Tuck your chin to your chest. Few more like that. Come back up to a neutral seat. Bring the souls of your feet to touch like a bound angle pose. If you can reach your ankles, put your hands on your ankles, and pull your heart forward. Notice where you feel this stretch. Notice [00:45:00] where you feel connected to sensation. Sensation is an access to the present moment. We only feel sensation in the present moment. So notice what you feel. Take a breath in, not a breath out. Come back to an easy seat, something simple. And we'll sit for another minute. We'll sit in meditation. So bring your hands back to a comfortable resting position. Soften your eyes, close them or keep them open. Whatever feels natural, come back to the breath.[00:46:00] The simplicity of the inhale. And the exhale, notice the rise and fall of your belly. And then place both of your hands over the center of your chest. Hold yourself in for a moment and just take this moment to acknowledge yourself, acknowledge your existence. [00:47:00] Acknowledge your physical being and bring your palms to touch. Pull your thumbs to the center of your forehead. Bow your head towards your heart. An honor of you and me in this practice that we share. Bow to you, my friend Thank you so much for joining me today for this episode of the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. Thank you for letting me share with you, and please, if you enjoyed what you heard today, share it like it, subscribe to it. And leave any comments that you might have. I would love to know what you think. I would love to know what you're struggling with. If there's a certain topic that you want to hear me cover, please give me the feedback and let me know [00:48:00] what you would like to hear on this podcast. I love you for listening, and thank you so much. I'll see you again soon for listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please consider joining my Patreon or leaving a comment and review. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or YouTube,

April 17, 2023

Ep. 30 | The Power of "It Depends" | My interview with Melissa Leach | Functional Anatomy Expert

Ever met someone and instantly thought, "Yup, we're destined to be yoga BFFs?" That's how I felt back in April 2019 when I attended the Baptiste Institute's Assisting Course in San Francisco, led by the amazing Melissa Leach! Melissa is not only a total bad@$$ yoga teacher but also down-to-earth, knowledgeable, and highly experienced in her understanding of yoga, functional anatomy, trauma, and mental health. During that course, she introduced me to the world of assists in teaching yoga – a game-changing approach that focuses on co-creation between student and teacher, rather than just correcting or adjusting. Fast forward to today, and I'm thrilled to share that Melissa is joining me on this week's episode of the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast! 🎉 Get ready to dive into: <ul> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> Melissa's unique approach to teaching yoga </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> The power of "it depends" when understanding the human body </li> <li dir="ltr" aria-level="1"> How pain can be trauma surfacing in the body </li> </ul> Want more of Melissa? Find her on <a href= "https://www.instagram.com/movementwithmelissa">Instagram</a> and check out her own podcast, <a href= "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/primal-performance-podcast/id1678012545"> Primal Performance Podcast</a>. If you enjoy this episode with Melissa, please like, comment, and share! Your support means the world to me. With love, ~Kari Transcripts: ===================== Interview with Melissa === Kari Doherty: [00:00:00] Thank you for listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast, hosted by Kari Doherty. The views and opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. These views and opinions do not represent any specific 12 step program. Only my experience, strength, and hope in recovering from the dise of addiction and codependency. If you'd like to learn more, please visit my website at www dot luminous recovery yoga dot. Hello, my friend. Thank you for listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. This is Carrie, and I just wanted to take a minute to tell you how excited I am to present this interview to you with Melissa Leach. Melissa is someone that I met many years ago at a Baptiste Institute training. She is a phenomenal yoga teacher and functional anatomy enthusiast. In this episode, you'll hear all about what Melissa is up to and why [00:01:00] our favorite phrase is "it depends". So I hope that you enjoy this episode. If you like it, please feel free to share it. Give us a comment and subscribe to my channel and over to Melissa's channel and support the work that we're doing in the world. It really helps to have people like you supporting the work and to keep spreading the word about good information. So with that being said onto the episode, Hello, Melissa. This is so exciting. Sometimes I have nightmares that I'm in an interview and I forget to press record. I've actually had this nightmare where I'm like in the interview and I'm like, I gotta press record. So I press record and, Melissa Leach: And I see the little, little button. Kari Doherty: Just the little button. I'm so happy to be here with Melissa Leach. This is truly it's an honor to know you and to be friends with you, but also to consider you my precious, precious yoga [00:02:00] teacher. So I wanna introduce Melissa Leach. Melissa, say hello to everyone. Melissa Leach: Hi everybody. Thank you for having me. I'm, I'm honored and very grateful to be, to be here and to be with you. Kari Doherty: Absolutely. I wanna just give everyone a little intro of how I met Melissa. So, I met Melissa in 2019. I was taking a. Assisting course through the Baptist Institute in San Francisco. So I flew from Portland to San Francisco to take this course, and Melissa was the lead trainer of this Baptist Institute assisting course. And it was phenomenal. I just remember being like, this woman is so freaking cool and I really liked Melissa. And so I went home and immediately started following Melissa on Instagram and Facebook and then you know, followed you along just as we do with the people that we admire through social media. And then recently Melissa released a course [00:03:00] called the Queuing Course. And I was like, oh, that's so badass. I'm gonna take that course. So I go to sign up for Melissa's course, and I notice that Melissa still had stock photography on her website of some other woman. And I was like, who? What is going on? Who is this a woman? And then I was like, oh, Melissa needs a little help with her website, so I. Privately messaged Melissa and I was like, Hey, you probably don't know me, but I took a course from you years ago and I think you're really cool and I would love to trade coaching to help you on your website. And Melissa wrote back, this is what you exactly said. You said, wow. And then you said, yeah, that'd be great. So that butted a wonderful friendship. Melissa and I actually meet every week to talk about yoga and to talk about running an online business. And really, I think that we coach each [00:04:00] other. Mm-hmm. Melissa Leach: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It is such a, i, I vivid, I actually vividly remember you from the assisting course because you left an Absolutely. Like I remember just in the interaction of that weekend, cuz that was back in the day when it was a two day course. I real, I remember talking to you and the questions that you asked were very, like, they were very insightful, and your presence and interaction both with me and the other people was very real. And there was something where I'm like, I actually really enjoy this person. Wow. I didn't because there are Oh, abso, absolutely. And so when you reached out, like it had been a while, I mean, 2019, it like, you know, like last year? No. I mean, I know it's been longer than that. Mm-hmm. But I, I was actually, I was like, I totally remember this person. Wow. So Kari Doherty: I didn't know that. See, I have this assumption when I'm in a group of people, although in some ways I stick out like a sore thumb, that, that nobody notices me. Like there's that tendency to believe that. [00:05:00] I am unnoticeable when really it is almost the opposite. That becomes true. Melissa Leach: No, you left, you left a very positive and very real. I'm like, I, I very much like authentic and real interactions and it, it, that was the impression that was, was left. No, like just a, that is a Kari Doherty: being alarm. I didn't know that. I I really didn't. So thank you for Thank you for saying that. Well that's, Melissa Leach: that's also why I was open to, you know, the, the, when you reached out, cuz you know, pe people do and so when you reached out, I was like, I, that left a mark and that allowed for Kari Doherty: that. So it wasn't just like, yeah, my website needs work. I'll just throw this one a Melissa Leach: bone. Oh no, totally. It's because, it's because of who you are. I mean like, listen, I'm lot of marketing in my website is not one. Kari Doherty: Oh, that's so great. [00:06:00] Thank you for saying that. That just means so much. I guess I never stopped to ask like, Melissa, did you remember me? Because I remembered you. That's just so funny. And that just is so my own psychosis of how I'm like, I am very unmemorable and people are like, actually, you're wearing yellow right now. You stick out. Like, there's just something that I do to myself where I minimize the impact that I have. So thank you for saying that. You traveled with the Baptist Institute for a while. That was like a, a big part of your life. What, what did you do for the Baptist Institute? Melissa Leach: I did a couple things for the institute. It was, I, I trained with Baron and the Institute for a lot of years a lot of years. And I was fortunate to be the programs director of the Baptist Foundation, which was the nonprofit arm. And through that, Nonprofit arm. We launched two programs that are very near and dear to me. Because it's through yoga, being able to reach [00:07:00] groups of people that might not ever set foot in a yoga studio has always been something that's very important. And so we developed the Unstoppable Program in conjunction with some amazing people. I partnered with Karen Terone, who's an just an amazing force of nature. Mm-hmm. And with her, we co-facilitated and led the unstoppable training, which was bringing the tools of yoga to people who work with children primarily to school teachers, but open to coach, just anyone. Mm-hmm. Who works with, with kids in a very, not in like, Hey, teach an afterschool one hour yoga class, but like, how actually do you take these parts and pieces and bring it into the classroom as a normal part of the day? And then the other part was being able to work with Sean Silvera and Dan Nevins with the Unbreakable Program, which was geared towards veterans active duty and first responders in a very similar fashion and mm-hmm. So I was able to do that. And then also on the [00:08:00] institute side, was very fortunate to be able to go lead programs, including the assisting course, the the teacher's course, and then also the anatomy course. It was Art of True North Alignment at the time. Mm-hmm. So I was able to scoot around and, oh, I also led, at the time we had a 200 hour teacher training program called Expand Your Power, and so was able to lead that at a lot of different studios around the country as well. So. Kari Doherty: Cool. Melissa Leach: It was fun. It was a great time. Very grateful. I'm very grateful to Baron, to the Institute to the Foundation for that time. Absolutely Kari Doherty: appreciate, I really appreciate the time I spent in the Baptist Institute trainings. I mean, honestly, it, it really made me the yoga teacher that I wanted to be. So I, I really do value everything I got out of Baptist yoga. And so, you know, being a certified Baptist teacher, to me that means something. Melissa Leach: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Yep. Kari Doherty: When did you start practicing yoga? Like I'm, I want a little bit of a taste of your [00:09:00] yoga journey. Like, were you the kind of person who was like, I always wanted to be a yoga teacher, or were you Oh, someone who went in a little bit more kicking and screaming, I'm a kicker and screamer. I was like, I don't want it. And it just kept coming back. So I'm curious what got you into yoga and, and were, was there resistance? Melissa Leach: I'm, I would, I guess I would. For in a lot of areas, describe myself as somewhat of a person. Very. I'm skeptical. How about that? I'm very skeptical. Mm-hmm. With a lot of things. I have always enjoyed like exercising and working out and have been in the fitness industry for probably just as long as, maybe a little longer than. Than yoga. And so I was like, I mean this is, back in the day, it was like kickboxing and lifting and mm-hmm. Any kind of group exercise class that I could do to push myself. I was doing, and at the time I was out in California actually. And I like to say that I started practicing when I [00:10:00] was two because I've been practicing for over 25 years. So we'll just leave that at that a Kari Doherty: little longer. You day over 25, babe. Melissa Leach: I greatly appreciate that. Okay. I went to, you know, started hearing about like this hot yoga thing and so I just picked a place and I went and I wore, I remember wearing light gray, I mean light gray leggings and showed up and it was a full eye. Cause I was like, 90 minutes, I can do 90 minutes. It was a 90 minute class and it was the, I left looking like I peed myself and it was just, Awful. I was like, so that's the yoga thing and I hate it and I'm not going back. Mm-hmm. And then I went back, I ended up going back and I don't know why I just, I decided I was gonna try it again and I went and I ended up going to another studio. I never went back to that studio. Actually, the room smell like there was just so much about it that I did. It was not a enjoyable, or Kari Doherty: it's a distinguish those things [00:11:00] like was it a bad class or do I hate yoga? You know, and it's really, those could get very confusing. Melissa Leach: Well, and here's the thing, and I guess as someone who's trained teachers, like, what I would like to say to all of the teachers who might be listening is, I don't remember the teacher at all. I don't remember if it was a man. I don't remember if it was a woman. I don't remember. I don't, I don't even remember if there was another person in the room. I'm assuming some, someone else was in the room because mm-hmm. We did things. So I really do not remember the teacher. And so, All of us who feel so responsible with our classes. Good point. Know, yeah. Know that like, that it was the class, it was not the, it had nothing to do with the teacher. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I ended up going to a Vinyasa class, power Vinyasa class cooler. It was a, it was a, it was a warm studio. It was a heated studio, but it wasn't hot. And I liked it. It was fun. It was there, as it turns out, there was no music. It was just a vinyasa flow class. And I had a great time. And so I [00:12:00] kept going back and I made it Cause I had heard it, just heard. And I didn't know the specifics. I just heard it was good for me. And it was a good compliment to the other things that I was doing. So I wouldn't say that I like dove into it when I was hooked and I, I had spiritual awakening. I just, like, I liked it. It was a great compliment to what I was doing. Yeah. And the way I got into it was, it was a good workout. And then the way I got into teaching is I eventually moved to New York and the place that I Started practicing at I liked the people. Mm-hmm. And I started to ask, I heard they might be doing a teacher training that fell through and they referred me out to a weekend certification for Yoga Fit. And I was like, that doesn't seem like enough education, but mm-hmm. Okay. And then I did a couple levels with yoga. And I think that's when I started to look for bigger trainings and I ended up reading Baron's Book Journey Into Power. And I was like, oh, this has, [00:13:00] yeah, well it just had all of the, like you would, I would find a 200 hour teacher training. And I was like, okay. The physical part of that resonates. I'm not fully, there's some other components that maybe I didn't feel comfortable with. And Baron's book was kind of the, the whole mm-hmm. Picture. And as it turned out at the time, he was leading a level one in Mela, New York. And I was like, okay, I usually don't travel for yoga teacher trainings, but this is in driving distance, so I'll go. And I did the hundred, I did the level one, and that was enough at the time to let, let me start teaching. I still didn't feel like that was enough. And that set me Kari Doherty: on. Melissa, did you have a breakthrough at Level. I did, Melissa Leach: I had a great time at level one and this is me, like, this is not like, I don't want anyone to think that this is coming off as like a judgment against yoga or the trains. I just didn't, that wasn't my experience. It was a great [00:14:00] experience overall. It was a great experience, but I wouldn't say I walked out of there a totally different person. I think a lot of people I did level Kari Doherty: one blew my head open. I had no idea what I was getting into. Yeah. And it was funny cuz I'm a nut, I'm like a nutty student. Like if you tell me I'm gonna have a breakthrough, I'm like, oh, okay. What day will I, what time? I was terrified the whole week to go to the bathroom because I was like, what if I go to the bathroom and I miss my breakthrough? And so that just like added another, Melissa Leach: that's amazing. Kari Doherty: What if I miss, what if I miss the breakthrough when I'm on the toilet? Like, you know, so it's just created a lot of anxiety. But I did, I had a few breakthroughs that week. So, you know, I think level one is like, it's like what you want from it, you know? I wanted a breakthrough. Melissa Leach: I, you know, but this is, I wanted one and I went through, so it started me on the path of doing level one, level two, level three, fit to lead [00:15:00] assistant. Like anything I could get my hands on with the institute I did willingly. But I would say there, and I would watch people get up at the microphone and be like, And I had had this breakthrough and I'm crying and it changed my life. And I was like, what am I doing wrong? It was so like, I was like, what? Where's mine? And I'm going through these trainings, doing it wrong. I'm, I'm not, Kari Doherty: I had my level one and two with Paige and I actually went up to page after, like day three, and I was like, I said to her, I'm not crying the way that other people are here. Am I missing something? Am I not doing? And she was like, well, are you getting something from the work? I was like, yeah. She was like, then don't worry about it. Melissa Leach: Everybody's, everybody's process looks different. Kari Doherty: And I was like, they must be getting some more money's worth because they're [00:16:00] a mess. Maybe I'm not getting my money's worth because I am not a puddle. And so, yeah. But you know, it's interesting how like, Yoga teacher. I mean, I like, do they do that at other types of trainings? Of just other exercises in general where like people get real emotional and cry all the time? I don't know. Cause I haven't been Melissa Leach: to other ones, but I've been to like Landmark. I've done Landmark and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And it's similar cuz I, like, I, it's funny cause I did Landmark after Baptiste. Mm-hmm. And I was sitting there, I was like, right. And I was sitting there watching similar things and I'm like, well here I am again years later not doing Landmark right. Because I'm not having, but they all cumulatively as I sit here today, like kind of looking back on all that, have all. It's been a cumulative effect. Mm-hmm. Where I wouldn't, I just, I wouldn't be the teacher, I wouldn't be the person that I am today without all of those experiences. Right. And it didn't happen in one transformational moment up at the mic as much as that's what I wanted. Right. Cuz that's what I thought it needed [00:17:00] to look like. Mm-hmm. And forcing it, you know, as, as I'm like, oh, if I had knew now or if I knew then what I know now, there would've been a little bit more freedom around it. And like, I'm not, I'm not doing level one or level two or level three are fit to lead wrong. It's just part, it's just the process. Right, right. And that's my thing. It's like, and I, you know, if any of my people who have coached me, In the gym, they'll probably, they'll appreciate this, but like, I don't do anything fast. Like there is nothing like big and explosive about me. Like I very slow and very steady. And it's funny as, as I'm, the connection that I'm making is like, oh, it shows up everywhere. Kari Doherty: Right? How you do anything is how you do everything. I really do believe that. I, I do see that that plays out, you know? Totally. So so keep going. You went through all the levels. You, you found a calling through this particular method? Melissa Leach: Yeah, I found a calling through this particular [00:18:00] method and, and I started teaching and then it became just something that I enjoyed doing and I don't necessarily, I know a lot of yoga teachers that I train are very, I love their passion and they want to make people's, they wanna improve people's lives, make an impact. And I just, it was fun. Mm-hmm. And I loved the practice and I loved teaching and it all just kind of worked together. And so I started only teaching a handful of classes as we probably all do. And I swung the pendulum swung too far the other way where I think I was teaching, like at one point I think I was up to like, I don't know, 14, 17 classes a week. Which has Kari Doherty: its place almost sick of the sound of your own voice at that point. Melissa Leach: Oh. The classes where I would teach five or six classes a day that, you know, that sixth class you were just like, I'm so sorry that you guys have to listen to me cause I [00:19:00] can't stand myself. Totally, Kari Doherty: totally Melissa Leach: get that. So, and then it just became a natural evolution to like, I remember the first teacher training I led. I was actually very, well, I was very nervous because I was like, who am I to lead this training? I really felt like I had to be teaching for like 25 years before I had enough like experience. Mm-hmm. And knowledge to share with people who were getting into the profession. It, it was a big, that was a, that was a probably my most challenging shift was going from yoga teacher to someone who trains other yoga teachers. Mm-hmm. Cause I took that very, and I still take that very seriously. Kari Doherty: That's actually a great segue into my next question, which is tell me about your experience training yoga teachers and what are like some of the top things that you think new yoga teachers need to know when they're getting started. Oh, Melissa Leach: I, it's one of [00:20:00] my favorite things is teaching and Teaching and working with yoga teachers who have such a passion for whatever their reason is for getting into teaching, whatever their reason is for sharing the practice is such a amazing opportunity so that we have so many different entry points for people to gain access to this practice. Because at the end of the day, one of the things that I know to be true is there are a lot of people who won't go to a yoga studio, but there are a lot of people who are natural teachers who love the practice, who come in contact with those people outside of the yoga studio, who can still teach in a different arena, in a very powerful way. And that's something that I have always been really passionate about. I working with, with yoga teachers is not easy for sure. And there's a lot of things that I think it's important that we're aware, aware of both in working with yoga teachers and actually, and. In the same way that all [00:21:00] yoga teachers shouldn't, should know. I think there's, it can be very challenging in that there are a lot of preconceived notions about what a yoga teacher should be and what are, what goes into that. I think there's also a side of it where social media has created a certain narrative around yoga poses and how you share the practice. That's, Kari Doherty: tell me about that pretty narrative, cuz I agree with you. Well, Melissa Leach: it's pretty detrimental. Like you see, we'll start with just the physicality of it. Mm-hmm. And it's like, if you wanna get into this pose, All you need to do is this, this, and this. And it's like, well, no, because a lot of the poses, there's, there's actually no connection to the functional anatomy. And, and a lot of people in the industry are like, functional anatomy is an overused term. I would agree in certain arenas, but not in the yoga arena because we don't teach it functionally. Mm-hmm. There's, you know, there's, there is not a lot of these poses where we're like, just practice and all is coming. Well, not that pose if you're [00:22:00] a certain body type. Right. Not that pose if you have a certain bone structure. Not, and, and that there's nothing wrong with my little T-rex arms. Yeah. Like, I can't bind, I can chatter onga like a champ. I love, like that's my favorite pose. But, A, a bind, it's yoga's not gonna give me longer arms. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so that's gonna show up. That shows up in just even like a simple twist bringing like in revolved Crescent lunch, bringing my elbow outside of my knee. My, my arm bones aren't that long. And so reaching my elbow outside of my knee actually requires me to go into quite a bit of lateral flexion in the side, in my, in my spine. And then you're adding rotation on that when we talk about functional anatomy. Can I, and alignment. Can I get my elbow outside of my knee? Yes. Is it actually the healthiest way to move my body? No. And that's where disconnect is. Some of the other narratives are have to do with using this practice to like, [00:23:00] Someone. And that's not what really the aim of yoga may be. Restorative yoga, but like really yoga as a spiritual practice is not really what it's all about. There is a lot in, I, I think that comes from maybe social, social media or society too, uhhuh, where there's a lot of spiritual bypassing, like love light and everything. You know, just do go to yoga every day and it's gonna change your life or make everything better. So those are the types of things that I think we're working against and like, I don't wanna say working against, it's the challenge that we have in leading teacher trainings is actually to strip all of that away and take a look at this practice, the spiritual practice at the heart of it, and then through you have poses that are the vehicles. For people to gain access to these bigger bene, bigger perceived benefits or practices. Right. Let's call 'em practices. Kari Doherty: So when you talk [00:24:00] about the spirituality of the practice, like what would be some particular aspects that you're pointing to that brings the spirituality? Hmm. Melissa Leach: I think it's part of it, you know, is the connection to, let's say, paton's Lin path, where we have where you have a, like a set pathway to explore who you are and then who you are in connection with the world. It is, it is, you know, we do know that there's, it's a practice to be able to calm the fluctuations of the mind, right. Not necessarily to relax. The spiritual practices I that, that yoga offers really are tools to help us navigate the challenges of being a human being and the human experience. I think the human experience. And so when you look at the yamas and the niyamas, when you actually put those into practice, so right. Nonviolence. A [00:25:00] lot of us are like, well, obviously I don't go around punching people in the face. But it's like, well, what about the words that you use when you're thinking about yourself? Yes. What about it shows up in like your approach to even your practice? Like, we wanna go super simple. You know, are you using the practice as an escape? Are you, are you trying to twist yourself? I used to use this practice as a way to not beat myself up, but like beat out some frustrations and definitely it wasn't as a way to deal and go into the heart of maybe what was bothering me. It was a way to, to like dissociate from it. Like the harder that, so it was like, I got really good, one of my favorite things is doing like double chaturangas. Like I, so I'm good at that now. But was that like, was that a practice of a hemsa? Right, right. Questionable. And we can look at the deeper aspects of each of, you know, the yamas and the niyamas to have some difficult conversations. To really [00:26:00] look at, you know, like I would challenge that even in our conversations around alignment, yoga, alignment and teaching the physical, physical part of it. Are you rooted in these yamas and the niyamas that we kind of superficially refer to when Kari Doherty: we're teaching? Right, right. You know, it's interesting cuz I've also trained teachers and have done, you know, teacher trainings and one of the things that I also caution new teachers against is the, the idea that you have to bring all of that into a 60 minute class. Like the idea that your class has to be, you know, anatomically accurate, spiritually deep. You should be quoting the yoga sutures. You should be throwing in some Sanskrit you should be, you know, and, and I feel like why can't each of those things actually be separate? Mm-hmm. You know, like why can't the yoga practice with the poses be the poses and. Meditation, be meditation and Sanskrit be Sanskrit and the niyamas and the self-inquiry work. And you know, [00:27:00] I, I sometimes feel like there's this urge that in a 60 minute yoga class, we have to shove it all in and put it all in in order for it to be a good class or a meaningful class or, you know. And that's actually one of the things that I get frustrated with in a class is sometimes I feel like there's just like a jam pack of trying to add it all in. Mm-hmm. And then I feel like I'm having spirituality imposed upon me, you know, so sometimes it's a balance of like, you know, what are we doing in a 60 minute yoga class, or a 30 minute yoga class, or a 20 minute practice, you know? Mm-hmm. And does it all have to be, like, in your opinion, does it all have to come through that one? Melissa Leach: No, because if we share like yoga's so broad and so deep, you could very easily teach yoga without teaching poses. The problem is we try to teach yoga by only teaching the poses. Hmm. And there's no, like, there's no heart, [00:28:00] there's no connection to the spiritual practices other than like, like superficial random sayings that we've heard. Right, right, right. So I do think as a yoga teacher, you should have these different pillars that you're versed in, but you're not going to. Like, that would be, and I've done this where where I'm the worst is with anatomy because I love it so much. And especially if I lead a teacher training weekend where I, it's the anatomy weekend. The next couple classes that I teach for general population are so anatomy focused. It's like a fire hose to the face and it's like, While some people might find it interesting, there has to be a balance. Right. And it's like, I think you, what you're saying is very valid in that we don't have to do all the things all at once. Right. But we wanna be very masterful and very intentional in incorporating bits and pieces. It's like we're responsible for having all of this knowledge and going through the [00:29:00] weeds and going through the confusion so that we can put out the most intentional, well-planned buffet, right. That our student chooses from. Right. Just, I think what's happening, and you said it was okay to be a little, we're edgy here. We're a little edgy. There's a lot of really crappy buffets that are being put out. Mm-hmm. And for whatever reason I think our job is just to offer up the. Well thought out, well-informed buffet. Mm-hmm. And then leave it up to our students that they're gonna put together the most perfect plate from that buffet. Kari Doherty: Right, right. I, you know, I, I think there is also this tendency with newer yoga teachers that if you don't have the most incredible, miraculous, deep, spiritual, impeccable thing to say that maybe you shouldn't teach. And I, I know that for myself, when I started teaching classes, I tried to just stay quiet until I actually felt like I had something genuine to say, because I didn't wanna just start imparting [00:30:00] wisdom or spirituality when I, I, it wasn't natural, you know? So I also think that some of those things come with time and experience where you feel like you have something to add in that arena. Melissa Leach: You just hit something very important on the head. I think that, I don't even know if it's for new, maybe all, all teachers like learning to teach yoga. This process isn't easy. It is challenging and it is okay for it to be challenging, and it's okay for there to be a lot of information that maybe you don't necessarily wanna n learn. But at the end of the day, we've chosen this as our profession, and I use that word very intentionally. Mm-hmm. For some, I guess it is a hobby, but like, think about why people are coming to yoga. Like if they're coming to relieve stress or they're coming to deal with certain things, if they're coming for health reasons, that begs the question, shouldn't we be versed in those [00:31:00] areas? If we're gonna be like, yes, yoga's gonna relax you, or yoga, which it could, it could be a result, like, yoga's gonna help you with your stress, or yoga's going to give you this benefit. What are you basing off of that? Can you cite different sources? To back that up or are you just repeating something you read online in like a blog, which is not a quality source of information, right. Or you know, I think it's, we, we look and I, I remember the, I spoke once at the microphone at level one and it was actually legitimately to ask Baron where like, the best ever yoga teacher tool toolbox was coming. Like, where is the, like, what is it? The, the, the easy button. Like that was the, where's the toolkit and where's that packet Kari Doherty: that I was supposed to get on the, where's, Melissa Leach: where's the manual? That makes me [00:32:00] just like, you didn't wanna miss your transformation, but you didn't wanna go to the bathroom so you wouldn't miss it. I was looking for the, That the, the steps and if I follow the steps, cuz I am kind of a linear thinker at times. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But if I follow the steps, then I will be an amazing yoga teacher. It's not that, I mean, I, it's taken me years and years and years and years to get to have a certain handle on anatomy to get, to have a certain handle on, I think on it's Kari Doherty: exposing yourself to people as well. Like, I didn't, I mean, sometimes it just takes seeing bodies in front of you to know how to talk to them, you know? Right. And I know that you've mentioned this before and what, in our, you know, what the work that we do together, which is that like if you Google Warrior two, you're gonna see a bunch of images of the same type of person. Melissa Leach: Mm-hmm It's the same. Yeah. It. It's, I'm, I'm pausing [00:33:00] because there's a lot around that, and it's one area where I think it's very important for those of us who are yoga teachers, for those of us who, who have chosen this as a profession, to recognize the harm that we have done and the harm that continues to be done, where this, in fact, the way that it's taught is often not an inclusive practice, right? We sit there and we're like, here's the shape, right? Here's the posture, and if you can't get into that, then you're less than and you need modifications. Ooh, let's talk Kari Doherty: about that. That's one of my favorite things that you talk about, which is, well, let's pitch the word Melissa Leach: modification. Well, it, because it indicates that this posture. Is the ideal. The thing is, is that posture has been centralized around, I guess we just name it, is white, very splendor thin, hypo [00:34:00] hyper mobile people. We're centralizing that as a should be what? It's not as representative of general population. What it doesn't take into account are people's trauma, mental health, stress, chronic pain limb length. Limb length, their hydration status. When they walk in the room, they're, they're, have they recovered? Are they sleeping it? And like, we're like, the best thing is, no. I wanna be very careful on how I say this is, I think with yoga, we, we can't get away with it. In like the fitness industry. We do that. And that's a whole different podcast. In yoga, we, we hide it behind this curtain of spirituality. Hmm. It's a spiritual practice. And these poses are like ancient. Well, no they're not. No they're not. No, they're not. Therefore, they are not ancient. Right. And they're not because I believe that the [00:35:00] heart of yoga, right, the spiritual aspect of yoga as a practice is accessible for everyone. It's the poses that aren't. Yeah. And I think we have done as yoga teachers when PE when there's a whole bunch of people, what we wanna recognize, there's a whole lot of people who won't step foot into a yoga studio. And it's not, it's not over the, like, there's lots of different reasons, but for the people who are like, I'm not flexible enough to do yoga. And we're like, yes you are. No they're not. Not the way some of us are teaching it. Right. And like to own that. And maybe if you believe that they are flexible enough to do yoga, then change the way you teach so that it makes sense with how the body's meant to move. I love Kari Doherty: that. I love that. So what would you say is a word or an alternative to the word modification? What would be a more inclusive, accessible way? Like Melissa Leach: variation. Variation I think is a great word. A [00:36:00] lot of people use adaptation. Mm-hmm. Options Or just the pose? Or just the pose? It's just the different, because we do, we just call it Kari Doherty: the pose Melissa Leach: Different. Yeah. It's just different. It does because we hold out, like we hold out that a certain aesthetic quality of the pose. Like let's take revolved crescent lunge your elbow outside of the knee. That's like the goal of the pose. But if it's rooted in limb length, then we've made the person wrong. And it's not the person that's necessarily needing to be fixed. It's the Kari Doherty: pose. You know, this is silly, but I've shared with you that I have a frozen shoulder right now. Mm-hmm. And it is excruciating to me to be in Warrior two and to hold my arm out. It just makes me want to cry. So, you know, what I do is I drop my arm down and I just do it with one arm and I, there is this part of me that has to like almost every time, talk myself out of like, no, you don't look silly. Your arm is frozen and you're still here. And that's okay. And so, like [00:37:00] even adapting the pose for what's happening in my body right now, which is that I have a frozen shoulder and stretching my arms front and back and looking o like that hurts. Melissa Leach: Well, why do you have to, why do you even have to turn your head Kari Doherty: over your, you know? And so, and that's another thing I've stopped doing, is I've stopped turning my head because it creates more stress on my neck than down my shoulder. So now I look straight ahead and I drop one arm and I'm, you know, and yes, I'm gonna call that warrior too. Yeah. Or whatever, Melissa Leach: you know, but like, not to be a total, but when we talk about it as an accessible practice, what if someone doesn't have two arms? Right. They need modifications cuz they're less thin. Right? No. Like Warrior two is like, if we teach warrior two, and I'm not saying that we d we need physical cues, right? We need, but they should be rooted in anatomy. Have your arms out parallel to the ground if you want, or that, or if it, if that doesn't make you [00:38:00] happy for that day, do something with your arms. It does, right? Like there's a lot of different ways to teach it. How do you invite someone into that pose in a way that allows for an exploration of the physical posture? Not that they have to jam themselves into a shape, right, right. Rather than like, what, Kari Doherty: what action. If we were looking at, let's say, warrior two from a functional anatomy perspective, what would we talk about in that pose that had nothing to do with whether your arms were parallel or what direction your gaze was in? Like what would be the essence of that pose to capture, aside from all of the like bullshit, if we stripped Melissa Leach: it down? If you strip it down, it's like, what? What are you actually, if you give people like action cues, right? Mm-hmm. Like what happens if you push your feet down into the ground? What happens? I'm not telling you what to feel. I'm actually opening a door that you can explore. Yeah. What am I feeling? What does happen in my body when I push my feet into the [00:39:00] ground? You could give a cue, like pull your thigh bones in, in towards the center line of your body. You know, hug everything in towards the center line and notice what that creates in your body. Mm. So what you're doing there is cultivating a little bit of interoception, is you're inviting them into an inner experience. Mm. Through that physical queue. Kari Doherty: Do you teach this stuff in the queuing course? I Melissa Leach: do. Cueing course. Kari Doherty: Yep. I'm gonna make a plug for Melissa's queuing course, because I took the first iteration and I know that you're releasing it again with even more stuff. And I have to say that this is one of the things that I love about you as a teacher, and I love having you as my teacher, is that Melissa's focus is on the action, the action of the pose, rather than just like where your limbs go in space. Because as you've said, what if you don't have those limbs? So your focus in teaching yoga is more [00:40:00] on the action Melissa Leach: of the post, and that's actually a way to create inclusivity, right? Everybody to some extent, and I'm not, I'm not dictating to what extent, but everybody could create an action of pressing down into the floor with something. Mm. Everybody could create an action of drawing a drawing in towards the center line of their body, you know, depending on, and so that's like if you give an action, You're also allowing for someone who wants to like give their a hundred percent, they can give that a hundred percent. If someone, if you have, if you wanna accommodate a beginner or if you have someone who actually needs to act to scale scale back their practice, then they don't have to hug into a hundred percent. They can hug in like Right. 5% or no, no percent. Right? So it's, yeah. Cuing action. Action over alignment. You use, it's not to say that there isn't, isn't value, especially for new [00:41:00] teachers to have that shape, to have alignment because we need kind, the reality of teaching yoga is we need common language. Right? But that's not, it's, it's letting go that there's some sort of hierarchy of these poses like this better than this, better than this. Right. Which is where we get into modifications as Right. As a word that like, I, I understand it cuz I think it's very well intentioned. We're trying to accommodate everybody. But if you actually let go of alignment and and shift how you teach, right? It opens up a lot more possibility where we actually don't have to modify, I don't have to fix things. It just actually accommodates everyone naturally. Kari Doherty: I love that. That makes sense. Oh, I love that so much. It makes a lot of sense. One of the things that I love you for saying, and I want you to talk about this for a second, Melissa, I'll, I'll say to Melissa, like this or that or what about this or that? And then Melissa will say, well, it depends. Melissa Leach: No one likes that. I [00:42:00] love Kari Doherty: how you say it depends. So tell us a little bit about what, like what it means to say it depends and like why that is so important in the context of teaching and practicing yoga. It depends Melissa Leach: in teaching and practicing yoga, it depends. Our brains really like the black and white. We like the right or wrong answer and this is why reinforcing like, When we start to learn anatomy plus body movement, it's not always black and white. And I think for people we want the easy answer to, to best accommodate all of our students. And there's not always the easy answer. Sometimes there is, and the reason is it depends, is so someone getting into a pose like wheel could be limited by an almost an infinite number of variables when we, when you strip back or like, this would be something that I would get into [00:43:00] anatomy is when you look at all of the different ways we can be measured as a human being, it blood pressure, limb length heartbeat, like there's, there are so many different variables. We take a look at like what's happening in your ankles, what's happening at the knee, what's happening at the hip joint, what's happening at the SI joint, what's happening through the spine, the shoulders, the wrists. All of those are variables that impact someone's. Then you layer on, and this gets a little bit more complex, is like the, how stress shows up in the physical body, how that might contribute to a restriction. What we don't know is like, is it a structural restriction? Is it something muscular that we could work around or work with? The structural is gonna be a hard stop hard stop, but it's not necessarily, we can still, that's why an action cue better than alignment. Right. How stress could impact how someone even hears and interprets [00:44:00] your cues. It all, it depends and it. Also shows up when we talk about like trauma and mental health, we have a lot of really important information. Like breathing practices are super, like they, they're calming. And these different breathing practices, meditation practices are proven to help with stress and anxiety. It also, so yes, and also it depends, there is a lot of really solid research out of there, but when you start to pull apart some of these re research studies, it, or like yoga, right? Yoga is beneficial in alleviating stress. One, it depends, depends on the, the individual's nervous system, right? The other, the other, it depends is, well, what part of the yoga practice did they pull apart and study? Right? Was it the poses? Was it the breath work? Was it the meditation? And then deeper, what style of breath work? What [00:45:00] style of meditation? So that's why, that's why it depends. It does. There are so many variables. And so when we're teaching with Ana, when we're teaching with this an anatomy informed lens, that's our most powerful tool as a teacher, is knowing that it depends. And we don't, we're not always gonna have the right answer because the human body with all of its different systems is so awe-inspiring. Right, right. And to think that we've got it answered like that is, it's, I mean, it's, it's kind of silly, but yeah, it depends. Gives us a lot of freedom and I, I think having that phrase, it depends. Kari Doherty: It really does. It takes me off the hook. It really does. Mm-hmm. And I, I just, that's what I've really appreciated about you giving me that phrase as a teacher. It depends. Is just that like, it, it really just does, you know, Melissa Leach: like, oh, totally. It like, cause it depends, like if someone ask like, am I doing this right? It depends. Right. Is it right for you? [00:46:00] I might not do it that way. And that has nothing like, and the way I do it shouldn't matter at all. Right. You know? And it depends. Like, does it hurt? No. Then you prob does it look, you know, a certain way, unlike anything we've ever seen in a yoga class. If it feels good and you're happy and you are gaining a benefit out of this class, then that is the perfect thing for you to be doing. Right, Kari Doherty: right, right, right, right. Like it's just very contextual. Mm-hmm. And when we look at things in a context, then it does depend. Mm-hmm. One other thing I wanna talk about, I wanna pivot to one of the things that I love talking to you about, which is pain. And you have taught me, and one of the things that you teach and you know, the context that you and I get together in, you are doing a, how would you describe it? Like a trauma informed training with me. Melissa Leach: Trauma and mental health trauma where it's like trauma complex stress. Kari Doherty: And so one of stress response of the things that we talk about is pain. And, and recently what I heard you say [00:47:00] on your podcast, which we're gonna talk about that in a second. But you talked about how sometimes pain, or was it trauma shows up as pain? How do, how do you say that? Or like, how would you talk about that A little? Melissa Leach: Stress. Stress and trauma can show up as pain in the body. We obviously have pain that is caused by, whether it's overuse, whether it's an acute injury, there's this physical pain that shows up in the body. And that's complica complicated. Like you're dealing with, you know, as you mentioned, frozen shoulder. Mm-hmm. I deal with, and one of the things that we actually, what I would wanna point to is that we all are dealing with pa when you are a human being using your body, which means if you're going to yoga multiple times a week, you're probably gonna end up with pain, joint pain, muscular pain. Mm-hmm. And, and it's not like, oh my gosh, you must have been doing it wrong. It's actually kind of a part of being. A human being and we just, we want to stop catastrophizing pain for people. And like, it's not necessarily they need [00:48:00] to be fixed or they need to take back off and take it easy. It's actually learning, using this practice to help people, to teach people how to distinguish different types of pain. And so pain that we should that, yeah. Is it pain or is it something that you can work around, work with? If it's something in a joint, we might wanna, that's something we wanna work with. If it's something that's radiating, that indicates something that might be a little bit more nervous system related, do we wanna work with that? You know, if it's showing there's just so many d it's a very complicated conversation. Adding on. You also have different t d pain that comes from different sources and so trauma and stress. Yes, we know that trauma, if it's like a car accident or something physical can cause pain. There's that in, there's an injury. The one thing to keep in mind is like, we can't overload one system of the body and not have it show up in other systems of the body. The body is way too complex, [00:49:00] way too smart for all of that. So if our nervous system gets overloaded, let's say with stress, anxiety, trauma mm-hmm. Anything like that, it is very possible for it to show up in another area of the body, whether it's in a joint, whether it's in whether it's in a muscle. So sometimes pain isn't necessarily caused by that certain, that specific movement. Mm-hmm. These pain signals. And that's actually, I'm getting ready to do an injury course and there's gonna be a whole aspect of pain because a lot of people are working with chronic pain and they don't need to be fixed. They don't need a modification and like, Just as a yoga teacher not as a yoga teacher, as a human being. Like those of us who have had chronic pain, the last thing that we're already frustrated by that pain, and then to walk into a yoga class and be made to feel that we're less than and we need special, it's like, no, we want, like, first [00:50:00] of all, they're pretty, pretty tough just being in that room. Tough and resilient. Just being in the room, dealing with what they're dealing with. We need to stop making them feel like, or putting over there that they need this modification, that it's actually we need to adjust how we're teaching. But anyway, so pain. Yeah, pain is a very fascinating, and I think respecting that it actually can come from different sources, whether it is an acute or physical injury, that's something that we can deal. But sometimes, and that's why I think especially when yoga teachers are talking about how this practice is so beneficial for stress and for trauma, it's like, well then you also have to understand the different types of pain that you're working with because that is tied in, you know, so whether it's stress from work, whether it's stress from relationships, all of these things factor in and can chill up as it can present as pain Kari Doherty: in the body. Right, right. Wow, that's so fascinating. So [00:51:00] is this something that people could learn more about in your injury course? Mm-hmm. Yep. And when is that happening? Tell us a little bit about that. Melissa Leach: I, that is gonna happen within the next couple weeks. What, I'm really just being very transparent. I'm trying to decide if I want to make it a live course or if I want to do it as a standalone course that people can work through. And something that you and I actually have, have played with is turning it into like A pre-recorded course that has a group coaching mm-hmm. Component. Kari Doherty: I love that. I love that. So it, it may, so we're still waiting to see what it's gonna look like, but that is something that people can expect to see coming from you soon. Melissa Leach: Yeah. Yeah. And it's gonna be, you know, obviously some easy common injuries that we see and how to work with them. But then it's a little bit more com, like a little bit more complexities when we start a little bit more complex topics such as chronic pain. Cuz I've got a lot of people who will come to me one-on-one. I've got someone actually who [00:52:00] is scoliosis that's actually looking how to, how she can stay in her practice. And one of these, one of the things with someone with scoliosis is we wanna be super careful about actually pushing flexibility. Mm. Or, you know, for this person and actually shifting the practice to be more stabilizing. Right. But there's, yeah, so there's the course. I'm very excited about the course. The thing is, if I don't launch it soon, it's gonna be a very, very long course. Cause there's so much information. So I'm like, I actually just need to launch it. So it'll be within the next step. I'm gonna, within the next couple weeks. Kari Doherty: And then we've got the queuing course. That's another thing that is. Coming. Melissa Leach: It's, yeah, I just need to, I need to, yeah, I need to record it. It's, it's language. You and I have had lots of conversations around language and then intentionality and the intention intention with which we cue individual poses and the intention [00:53:00] in how we show up as teacher is so important because if we lack intention when we cue an individual pose, then we're probably gonna lack intention when we put together an individual sequence, which can I, we've, I'm sure we've all been in those classes where I, I've been in classes where I've literally sat down like midway cuz I'm like, I am so confused with what's happening right now. I, and, and as someone who has practiced for a lot of years, to feel that lost, you can only imagine how someone who Right. Has a newer practice field. And that's something that like, just for me as, as my personal, like. Operating system is, I never want a student in my class to feel like that. I don't want them to feel lost. I don't wanna feel that. I don't want them to ever feel like Right. Less than overwhelmed. Yeah. Overwhelmed. So, wow. I pivoted. I need to bring that back to what the question was, the cuing Kari Doherty: course, which I, I know you enough to know that it's like, you know, if you follow Melissa on Instagram or Facebook, which I would [00:54:00] recommend, you're always talking about queuing in terms of like being able to say why you said that thing. Melissa Leach: Oh, that would be another. So going back, bringing this back to one of your initial, initial questions for teachers is to be able to answer why you're giving a cue. Yeah. If you don't know why, then you should question it and learn why you're giving that cue. Right. Kari Doherty: And these are things that you talk about in the queuing course cuz I've taken one, I've taken your first queuing. Melissa Leach: We should be like toddlers. Like, why did I say that? And like, what my practice in being intentional with language is like, I will call myself out in class. Like if I say something that like, maybe I, I've heard it before and I'm like, I'm just gonna try this out. Right. And I can tell the minute it comes outta my mouth where I was like, that felt gross coming outta my mouth and it made no sense. Right? But I'll actually call myself like, what was I even singing? I think it's important that we have a why behind our cues and be able to answer the why, like, behind our sequence. Yeah. Right. You know, like if you're changing, if you're sequencing, [00:55:00] why are those poses put together in that specific way? Kari Doherty: I wanna finish up lastly with the podcast that you just launched, which is very exciting and you've already made by the time this this interview comes out, there will probably be, be at least two or three episodes available. Mm-hmm. And what is it called again? Melissa Leach: It is the Primal Performance Kari Doherty: Podcast. Primal Performance Podcast. Mm-hmm. And I have personally listened to the first episode and loved it and cannot wait for more. So I really wanna encourage our listeners, people who are listening into this interview to check out Melissa's podcast, which is just full of this kind of conversation about, you know physical fitness and yoga and why, and all of this, like really juicy functional anatomy stuff that I just really, really enjoy from you. Melissa Leach: Well, thank you. I, it's a, it's a very fun podcast and I've partnered with he's actually one of, he's my coach. And [00:56:00] we're going, there's a lot of stuff that shows up in the yoga industry, and I would often put yoga under, you know, the fitness umbrella too. But there's a lot that shows up in. The fitness industry and the nutrition industry and all of these things work together, right, to achieve overall health. And I, the conversations that I get very excited about especially with my co-host, is to challenge where even the fitness in the nutrition industries can do better. Right. Right. Because there are certain narratives that we were talking about in yoga that exist in, in some of these other, other, I, as in when we're talking, Kari Doherty: is getting a master's degree in nutrition right now. So I would consider you a very solid source. Oh, thank you. I just, I know your level of research and I knows just like the conversations that you and I get into, Sometimes I'm like, wow, I didn't know what I was even asking. And now Melissa, a dissertation on something that I didn't even really know what I was Melissa Leach: asking. Really looking for a one word [00:57:00] answer. Thanks. Kari Doherty: Can we just make this a sound bite? I don't, I didn't really want all of that information, but you know, I could, I could always generally like compound it down into, well, Carrie, it depends. And so you know what I love Melissa Leach: about that though is that's our job as teacher Yeah. Is to like, go through all of that so that you distill it down to like the quick simple one-off easy cue for our students to understand. Right, right, right. But our job is to go through all of that to get to that one thing. Kari Doherty: That one thing. Right. I think that's a really good place to like, like that feels like this conversation has gone full circle. I have just really enjoyed this conversation and I wanna encourage people to find Melissa. Movement with Melissa is how people can find you on Instagram. Mm-hmm. Melissa Leach is how they can find you on Facebook Primal. Tell me the name of the podcast one more time. Primal Performance Podcast. Primal Performance Podcast is how you can find Melissa on [00:58:00] podcast. And then Melissa's always talking about her courses on Instagram, so that's a really good way to kind of stay up to date on what people are looking for from you. Also, I wanna make a plug for your awesome free audio class. People could actually go onto Melissa's link tree and there is a link on there to take a free audio class from Melissa, which I had the pleasure of helping you create. So I got to take that class and I love that. Melissa Leach: Well, it wouldn't be up there without you, so there's a huge amount of gratitude. Kari Doherty: So we gotta get you something, we gotta get you some email addresses. So anyway, that would be a great way to get put onto Melissa's newsletter list and take that free audio class. It's just a really great way to experience Melissa as a yoga teacher. And yeah, I just, you know, I just really love what you're doing and I'm just so grateful that you're my teacher. Thank you so, oh, I'm grateful for answering my Facebook message several months ago. Melissa Leach: Well, thanks for being you because Kari Doherty: who, you're, I told someone I [00:59:00] was like, so I, there's this like really cool teacher that I really wanted to like, get to know better and I, someone was like, you said that you did that. I was like, yeah, I just can't help myself. I'm Melissa Leach: so glad you did great. Sometimes I just Kari Doherty: can't stop myself from, from my impulses and my urchin. Melissa Leach: This is the best one ever. Kari Doherty: So I'm just so grateful that you took the time to have this conversation with me. Melissa, thank you so much. And I just wanna reiterate, please find Melissa. She's incredible. An amazing yoga teacher, and a teacher of teachers. So if you're listening to this and you're a yoga teacher, Melissa is also a teacher of teachers like world class. Oh, thank you. So thank you so much for taking the time for this interview. I just adore you and I'm so grateful for getting to just hear you say it all out loud in one place. I'm gonna, well, thank you for having this interview and take notes for myself. So, Melissa Leach: well, the feeling is very, very mutual. I have a tremendous amount of respect for what you're doing.[01:00:00] So the, the feeling Kari Doherty: is mutual. Thank you. Well, thank you to all of our listeners and I will look forward to seeing you out there. So thank you everybody. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please consider joining my Patreon or leaving a comment and review. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or YouTube,

32 total episodes available

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What is Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast?: An exploration of the intersections of yogic philosophy, twelve step recovery wisdom, and a little yoga practice for embodied understanding.

You can use this podcast as a resource if you need a little calm, a little laugh, or you're in crisis and don't want to feel alone. Whatever your problems, there are those among us who have had them too.

Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast is hosted by Kari Doherty--RYT-500, Certified Yoga of 12 Step Recovery Space Holder, and Yogi in Recovery.
How often does this podcast release new episodes?: This podcast updates daily.
Where can I listen to this podcast?: This podcast is available on 4 platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more. You can also use the RSS feed directly.
Does this podcast accept guests?: Yes, this podcast regularly features guests.

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