脑放电波是一档关注科技前沿、品牌营销和个人成长的谈话类节目。每期带给您一个有趣有据的话题，帮您在信息严重过载的现代世界小幅自我迭代。
欢迎加小助手微信(微信号：BrainAMP01)进听友群参与话题讨论。
主理人： 托马斯白，15+年科技行业从业者，前 XR 创业公司 CMO，科技媒体特约作者（微信Alanneo） Nixon Hu：大厂产品经理、前机器人产品经理、科技媒体记者 （微信hxk2312）
by 托马斯白
5.0(8 reviews)
98 episodes
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Podcast Overview
脑放电波是一档关注科技前沿、品牌营销和个人成长的谈话类节目。每期带给您一个有趣有据的话题，帮您在信息严重过载的现代世界小幅自我迭代。 欢迎加小助手微信(微信号：BrainAMP01)进听友群参与话题讨论。 主理人： 托马斯白，15+年科技行业从业者，前 XR 创业公司 CMO，科技媒体特约作者（微信Alanneo） Nixon Hu：大厂产品经理、前机器人产品经理、科技媒体记者 （微信hxk2312）
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11/5/2022
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Recent Episodes
June 1, 2026
AI真的在“蒸馏”人类吗？硅谷裁员潮，声音“被盗”的主播，焦虑的教皇-Vol98
Hosts Thomas Bai and Nixon explore whether AI is truly distilling humanity, examining news about job cuts, voice theft, and the Pope's AI encyclical to reveal the nuanced reality of human "distillation" in the digital age.
May 24, 2026
DeepSeek V4价格骨折背后：一位“二流程序员”的两次红利时刻-对谈 Proma 开发者Erlich-Vol97
Host Nixon interviews Proma developer Erlich about DeepSeek V4's price cuts, the value of "shelling" models, and the risks of intermediary services.
May 11, 2026
独家实测机器人上门保洁：149元3小时背后，数据与能力的天花板-Vol96
<p>我们花149块在58同城约了个机器人上门做保洁，来的不只一台机器，还自带工程师、保洁阿姨和货拉拉。这一期不只有自变量的保洁机器人。去年在北美花体验了一次机器人按摩，回头一查，那家叫Aescape的公司今年4月破产了。维他动力的Vbot机器狗也开始大规模交付了——4000台，占去年行业产能的五分之一。三段亲历，同一个问题：消费级机器人离"有用"到底还有多远？</p><p>后半段我们扎进了行业数据策略的争论。Jim Fan在红杉闭门会上说VLA已死，世界模型才是出路。我们还扒了最近Figure、Generalist、Genesis AI三家放出的demo——这些视频看起来一个比一个强，但在真实场景里的表现，我们存疑。</p><p><a class="timestamp">02:00</a> 自变量机器人上门：149块3小时，谁在干活？</p><blockquote><p>一台机器人进门要三个人伺候：工程师、阿姨、货拉拉司机。</p></blockquote><ul><li><p>58同城APP预约，目前只开放深圳。149元含一位保洁阿姨+一台双臂机器人+一位随行工程师。阿姨收拾厨房厕所卧室，机器人只负责客厅——过不了门槛、挤不进卧室。</p></li><li><p>机器人是轮式底盘，宽50cm长80cm高约1.5m，重几百公斤。两个夹爪能从地面夹到1.5m高，工程师得用货拉拉运、用斜坡推下车，"抱是抱不下来的"。</p></li><li><p>它在客厅干了这些活：把倒地书包拎起、拉上拉链（夹了3次）、三个书包摞一摞、叠了五六件衣服（每件5到10分钟）、茶几杂物归类后丢垃圾、餐桌杂物叠成半桌、临走把门口鞋摆好。中间死机一次，停了20分钟。</p></li><li><p>机器人完全静默——没有音响，零交互。托马斯白没法给它派活，"他进来就直奔沙发开始干，我没有做任何表达"。背部USB口插着一个4K HDMI发射器（用来回传画面和遥操指令），工程师自带了华为5G路由器组网。</p></li></ul><figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/FtDRtY4cBYB1deRvx2esnfqAfmKu.JPEG"></figure><hr><p><a class="timestamp">10:00</a> 拉拉链那一幕：惊艳是真的，推测有人在遥操</p><blockquote><p>我给遥操的大哥点个赞了，手法真好。</p></blockquote><ul><li><p>书包拉链是拉上了。从地面拎包→放沙发→夹拉链（失败两次）→换到侧面夹→成功，整个过程2分多钟。动作精细程度远超目前任何全自主模型的公开水平。</p></li><li><p>托马斯白中间说了一句"这个可以放在旁边的箱子上"，机器人大约2秒后转头找到那个箱子放下，感觉"后台有人在听"。</p></li><li><p>中间停住过一次，工程师查网络、联系公司，约20分钟恢复。</p></li><li><p>行业惯例：1X的人形机器人进家100%遥操，智元2025年展示的做三明治也是遥操，Tesla Optimus那次倒啤酒后来也被爆是遥操。Nixon："凡是看起来太完美的家用机器人现场，默认它有遥操背景是更合理的判断。"</p></li><li><p>叠衣服的表现倒像自主尝试——不是人类叠法，不甩不抖，左抓右抓，叠得"比我儿子还差点"。托马斯白的猜测：拉拉链这类精细活是遥操，叠衣服这种标准化任务可能切到了世界模型在跑。皮沙发脚托很滑，衣服下半截接触台面后还会被拉移位。烘干后带皱的不同面料，跟实验室里轻薄垂顺的T恤完全是两码事。机器人没有"甩"这个动作能力——而叠好衣服恰恰需要抖和甩。最后那叠衣服只能说变成了方形，里面的皱褶全在。</p></li></ul><figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/Fk8anQoSImu0BsoNIN2aZynxzCio.png"></figure><figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/FmNlopGotNItQnmKkE-35nKKt6tY.PNG"></figure><p><a class="timestamp">33:00</a> <strong>按摩机器人为什么死了？Aescape的1.57亿美金教训</strong></p><blockquote><p>像在工厂里被按摩。节奏、节拍、运行声都像车间设备。</p></blockquote><ul><li><p>Aescape，2017年成立，Equinox健身房和四季酒店有部署，30分钟60美元。上个月申请破产，累计亏了1.57亿美元，融了1.2亿，资不抵债。</p></li><li><p>Nixon去年10月体验：先上网填衣服尺码，到店换上紧身瑜伽服，摘掉项链摘项链、Body Scan，塞好衣角。躺在床上，左右两个"螃蟹钳子"机械臂开始从上到下、从轻到重地滚。咔特咔特的充放气声+散热风扇嗡嗡响，背景放着冥想音乐也盖不住。</p></li><li><p>力控粗糙。机械臂无法像人手一样一会儿用手掌一会儿用骨节调节压强，力道偏大时Nixon只能自己往下滑来躲。触觉也没精细到能感知衣服材质——所以才必须让客人穿统一面料，"用流程兜底感知能力不足"。</p></li><li><p>一周只能约三天，剩下四天机器在维护。"一台机器7天只干3天活，单店利用率直接腰斩。"商业模型里回本周期、维护成本、场地分成三项一算，根基本来就是裂的。</p></li></ul><figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/FjOn7Leoo3a7DEPtXw3PXy4ml-AE.png"></figure><hr><p><a class="timestamp">41:00</a> Vbot机器狗量产</p><ul><li><p>5月8号首批500台下线，5-6月产能冲到2500台/月，四千台进家庭。Pre-A轮近5亿元，目前消费级具身赛道单笔最大。CEO已明确下一站在做全尺寸人形机器人。</p></li><li><p>Nixon在上海长宁来福士探店，商场草地和教堂广场上牵着遛了15分钟。四种跟随模式：稳态（要使点劲拽）、省力（手腕一转就跟）、户外探路（机器在前）、跟随（机器在后）。UWB信标=远程牵引绳+跟随定位锚，内置麦克风能语音查询"来福士到长宁区政府怎么走"。</p></li><li><p>新配件包括静音组、防夹手设计、家庭守护（本地48小时存储），后续Openclaw SDK路线是"模糊指令→自动编程→完成任务"。</p></li><li><p>4000台=去年行业机器狗总产能的1/5。Nixon："量产是数据滚轮的入场券。硬件趋同后，操作系统和生态才是真正的护城河。"</p></li></ul><figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/Fm5XvIS_K8JMe89017Hhb2SYU8Do.png"></figure><p><a class="timestamp">45:00</a> 数据游戏变了：从人手把手教，到iPhone绑头上拍</p><ul><li><p>过去两年，行业靠VR遥操攒数据起家——让操作员戴着VR头盔用手柄控制机器人做动作，录下来当训练样本。这条路走到头了：单工位年运营50万+人民币，建1000个工位也凑不到100万小时；遥操员没触觉反馈，成功率只有1/3；动作慢、动作僵，抖衣服这种依赖速度的任务永远学不会。</p></li><li><p>2025年出现拐点。单目人体姿态估计成熟，iPhone第一人称视频能精准提取21个手部关节——戴着手机正常干活就能产训练数据。英伟达EgoScale的配方：2.1万小时ego视频做预训练（主食），加50小时数据手套（精细对齐），加4小时遥操（校准锚定，不到0.1%），就训出了符合scaling law的模型。</p></li><li><p>Build AI，一家18岁哥大辍学生创办的公司，把iPhone和头戴相机绑在亚洲数千名工厂工人头上。去年10月开源1万小时，年底扩到10万小时，今年目标100万小时。这本质上是把"采人类视频"做成了流水线生意。</p></li><li><p>三条线都在跑，只是权重在变：遥操→黄金数据（微调锚定用），ego视频→基础数据（预训练主粮），Human Data多模态→核心数据（力觉触觉全身动力学）。Jim Fan给的金字塔很直白：塔尖遥操最难扩展，塔基第一视角视频千万小时级别起步，"饭在塔基"。</p></li></ul><hr><p><a class="timestamp">01:00:00</a> Jim Fan的“暴论”：VLA已死，WAM当道</p><blockquote><p>可乐罐放在Taylor Swift照片旁边——这是VLA最高光的demo，也是天花板。</p></blockquote><ul><li><p>VLA（Vision Language Action）的根子是让语言模型理解物理任务。Jim Fan在红杉闭门会上直接给VLA画了个墓碑RIP。原因很简单："绝大部分参数给了语言"，而语言在物理世界里是有损压缩——"把可乐罐放在Taylor Swift照片旁边"这种任务靠语义指代能行，"把这件衣服叠成刚好能塞进抽屉的样子""绕着这盆花的形状擦桌子"——全是"差不多""刚好""大概"，文字编码不了。</p></li><li><p>WAM（World Action Model）替代思路：预测世界下一帧画面，让动作微调把预测兑现成执行。"如果模型预测的下一帧是对的，动作通常就是对的。"作品Dream Zero，Jim Fan说这是"机器人的GPT-2时刻"。</p></li></ul><hr><p><a class="timestamp">01:11:00</a> 实验室里的Demo：精修画面和真实世界之间隔了多少次摆拍？</p><blockquote><p>我们不知道是不是遥操摆拍了十多次，最终给你剪一段出来。</p></blockquote><ul><li><p>Generalist（GEN-1）放出6个特定任务99%成功率，背后是50万小时人类动捕数据。仔细看：只有T恤折叠、吸尘器维护这6个任务到了99%。其他任务泛化能力未知。全程没有语言参与——"没有语言就没有目标，机器人其实不知道自己在干什么。"</p></li><li><p>Genesis AI（GENE-26.5）打蛋、切番茄、做奶昔，多数子任务90-95%。打蛋和刀转移番茄两项最难的只到50-60%——打蛋刚好是"特别讲究触觉和手感"的动作，这两项做不好，离真实厨房还很远。公司自己说的是"30秒复杂技能=几小时人类数据+不到半小时机器人执行数据"，路径是人类预训练+少量机器人适配+仿真闭环（他们原本就是仿真平台出身）。</p></li><li><p>Figure（Helix-02，5月8号放出）双机协同卧室整理：开关门、挂衣服、收耳机、倒垃圾、推椅子、盖被子，不到2分钟。画面精美，布景专业，打光讲究，像一个广告片。"考虑到今天机器人的遥操如此普及，我们不知道它真实的能力边界在哪里。"</p></li><li><p>这三个Demo都是在实验室条件下精挑细选的展示。播客前半段聊的那三台机器——自变量保洁干3小时死机、Aescape一周坏四天、Vbot机器狗遛狗体验——是任何普通人都能上手体验、看到所有失败和局限的真实产品。精选画面和完整工作日之间，差的不是技术参数，是"能不能在全天候、无人值守的条件下持续工作"这道最硬的门槛。</p></li></ul><p>相关视频：</p><ul><li><p><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1RhoYBtEKJ/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click">自变量机器人发布会</a></p></li><li><p><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qHxYzqE4g/?spm_id_from=333.1387.upload.video_card.click">北美机器人按摩</a></p></li><li><p><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Uv5p6mExT/?spm_id_from=333.1387.upload.video_card.click&vd_source=898295ff33f0563c5f731c315329643c">维他动力 vbot</a></p></li><li><p><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1VLRMB2EAw/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=898295ff33f0563c5f731c315329643c">【红杉AI Ascent 2026】 英伟达Jim Fan：机器人领域的终局</a></p></li><li><p><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1uu9NBcE8Y/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click">Generalist AI发布GEN-1！一脚踹开“精通物理任务”的大门，1小时数据，成功率达到99%_哔哩哔哩_bilibili</a></p></li><li><p>Genesis <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="http://www.bilibili.com">www.bilibili.com</a></p></li><li><p>Figure的demo <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="http://www.bilibili.com">www.bilibili.com</a></p></li></ul><p><strong>人物：</strong></p><ul><li><p>托马斯白 - “脑放电波”主播，消费电子营销人，科技媒体特约作者</p></li><li><p>Nixon - ”脑放电波“主播，硬件产品经理，前媒体记者</p></li><li><p>剪辑制作：Jeff</p></li></ul><p>欢迎订阅脑放电波，2024/25苹果播客周度推荐节目、小宇宙累计13次编辑推荐单集、2024CPA播客中文奖年度科技数码类播客</p><figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/FsLgQN2bfTI1dxiCf9h476IBYIqs.png"></figure><figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/FuR3nf3i7Kn8tWO4Rhoi559drhic.JPG"></figure><p><strong>欢迎在评论区留言发表你对 机器人做家务 的感受与看法</strong></p><p><strong>对于节目话题的更多观点，获取更多未呈现在节目中的扩展阅读，欢迎添加脑放电波小助手微信（BrainAMP01），附言“机器人”，加群参与讨论，后续会发布本期节目的文字稿</strong></p><p><strong>节目中用到的音乐：</strong>来自monkeyman535的90's Rock Style，<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="http://地址freesound.org">地址freesound.org</a>；来自kjartan_abel的Berlin Town，<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="http://地址freesound.org">地址freesound.org</a>；基于 CC BY 4.0 DEED 使用。</p><p><strong>脑放电波往期节目精选（搜索关键词可收听）</strong></p><ul><li><p>具身智能：<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/69db3b71b977fb2c47b5bc82">灵巧手</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episodes/693fe1832a383da16739ced6">消费机器人浪潮</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/68bede0c9eb4a493006b179d">戴森与追觅</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/68a1dfe9293471fed4101a27">大疆扫地机</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/67bdf97b606e5c5940d60619">宇树机器人</a></p></li><li><p>AI 造物：<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6829e196457b22ce0d4c36bd">3D打印机</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6922c3becbba038b42df0e1e">3D打印的"iPhone时刻"</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6922c3becbba038b42df0e1e">3D扫描、生成与打印</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episodes/690eb6b1af4fc00da7b131e9">AI玩具和国产芯片</a></p></li><li><p>AI 应用：<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episodes/695a42deba709206704bd2d3">闪念贝壳</a></p></li><li><p>汽车聚变、泛科技生活：<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/661153124f66d1c1da58cbae">SU7营销复盘</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6829e196457b22ce0d4c36bd">3D打印</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/689785b2032793b18a91f930">孵化大疆</a></p></li><li><p>饮食健康、现代病人：<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episodes/692679370084e2631dc70443">AI助推造神</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episodes/6933dfd13fec3166cf8efb13">生物骇客</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/684d37fb2a38b4d9799c96fe">AI 内容真假难辨</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6693526737236c546efa78d1">控糖革命</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6766623e15a5fd520e608aa0">信息过载</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/653e7b422d3520c14fa175a9">长寿革命</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/64a15d8663a61044f40992f5">阿斯巴甜致癌疑云</a></p></li><li><p>苹果特权：<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episodes/68c739df2c82c9dcca59ae01">腕上革命</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/66ddbfeebfd7110df4268429">设计哲学</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6506cb74bbe351e616281901">苹果供应链迷思</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/64c65f3bb3f6c440a86bc1b2">苹果广告底层逻辑</a> /<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/64f74bfa6884ccbb19214a13"> iPhone 15 和它的前任们</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/65a33569926ad7aad0e73f59">苹果零售店</a></p></li><li><p>AI 相关节目：<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/687b9d23a9dec9250019c372">人机交互的与“iPhone 时刻”</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/66b0e99633ddcbb53c7feb37">会喘气的AI语音里藏着下一代交互范式</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6669ae45c26e396a3651d7b9">解构Apple Intelligence</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/episode/6627cfb6200abebe6ece766c">和李楠聊AI硬件</a> / <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/cn/podcast/%E8%84%91%E6%94%BE%E7%94%B5%E6%B3%A2/id1661644635?i=1000604890182">611款 AI 生产力工具</a>；</p></li></ul><p>脑放电波是一档关注科技前沿、品牌营销和个人成长的谈话类节目。每期带给您一个有趣有据的话题，帮您在信息严重过载的现代世界小幅自我迭代。您可以在小宇宙、苹果播客或者其他泛用型播客客户端搜索“脑放电波”找到并关注我们，如果您对本期节目有任何疑问，欢迎您给我们留言，如果您觉得这期内容对你有所帮助，欢迎您关注点赞收藏转发，这对我们非常重要。</p>
98 total episodes available with 25 transcripts
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