Natural wine culture, by Aaron Ayscough. Reporting from Paris since 2010. Roughly a third of this podcast is available for free. For access to the other episodes - and to heaps of wine interviews, profiles, translations, commentary, and more - subscribe to <br/><br/><a href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast">notdrinkingpoison.substack.com</a>
NOT DRINKING POISON Podcast
Claim This Podcastby Aaron Ayscough
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15 episodes
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Podcast Overview
Natural wine culture, by Aaron Ayscough. Reporting from Paris since 2010. Roughly a third of this podcast is available for free. For access to the other episodes - and to heaps of wine interviews, profiles, translations, commentary, and more - subscribe to <br/><br/><a href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast">notdrinkingpoison.substack.com</a>
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7/27/2023
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Recent Episodes
April 8, 2025
Ep. 32: Harry Lester of Le Comptoir Central des Bazars
<p>We flew to Lyon, and you drive through a lot of forest to get here. It was sort of suffocatingly claustrophobic, just pine trees, pine trees, pine trees, all through the Livradois-Forez [national park], and then when you arrive in Chassignoles, suddenly you can see again, and there's light. We were like, ‘Ah, this is nice.’ It felt like a blank canvas for doing whatever we wanted. - Harry Lester</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/harrylesterauvergne?igsh=MWxkMmI2ZjJkYWs0YQ==">Harry Lester</a> is the British chef-restaurateur behind a trio of beloved Auvergne natural wine destinations, namely <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/aubergechassignolles?igsh=ZjZnYXgyanB5NDUz">L’Auberge de Chassignoles</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/sainteutrope?igsh=MTY4czB4ajVkaWl4dw==">Le Saint Eutrope</a>, and, as of this month, <a target="_blank" href="https://comptoircentral.fr/">Le Comptoir Central des Bazars</a>. Lester first drew acclaim in London as a chef-partner in the Anchor & Hope (est. 2003) before a chance tip from a friend (among other factors) inspired him to decamp with his young family to the remote Auvergne village of Chassignoles, where he and his wife Ali Johnson would transform a neglected rural auberge into an internationally renowned natural wine dining destination. </p><p>In 2013, after selling the Auberge de Chassignoles, Lester opened the Clermont-Ferrand bistrot Le Saint Eutrope, which he ran until selling it to his former employees Michael Hazlewood and Manon Descombats in 2023. Earlier this month, Lester opened a new establishment in Clermont-Ferrand, Le Comptoir Central des Bazars, retaining the name of the toy shop that formerly inhabited the site on rue Lecoq. At the new address, one rediscovers all of the hallmarks that have made Lester’s restaurants so essential to the contemporary Auvergne natural wine renaissance: masterful yet unfussy cuisine, simple thoughtful décor, and an aficionado’s selection of natural wine from throughout Europe. </p><p>I first met Lester on a pilgrimage to Le Saint Eutrope in March 2019, and have since leapt at any occasion to enjoy his fine company on the natural wine route throughout France. I joined him to record this podcast late last August in Chassignoles, where he still lives part of the time. On this occasion he was making an appearance as a guest chef at his former restaurant. Take a listen for Lester’s recollections of his first encounters with Auvergne natural wine; his tips for local food markets in Clermont-Ferrand; and how his tripe recipe helped win over the locals. </p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/aaronayscough/?hl=en">Aaron</a></p><p><p>This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all the episodes - plus years of vigneron interviews, reports, and natural wine news - please subscribe! </p></p><p>FURTHER READING & LISTENING</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/chefs-who-give-a-s**t-about-wine">Not Drinking Poison Podcast Series V: Chefs Who Give A S**t About Wine</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-31-jonathan-schweitzer-of-cafe">Ep. 31: Jonathan Schweizer of Café des Deux Gares & Le Goncourt</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-30-mateo-brena">Ep. 30: Mateo Breña</a> </p><p>A Septemper 2022 piece on Harry Lester by Rachel Signer at <a target="_blank" href="https://rachelsigner.substack.com/p/harry-lester-and-the-search-for-democratic">La Mescita</a>.A March 2013 feature on Harry Lester during his era at L’Auberge de Chassignoles at <a target="_blank" href="https://www.ft.com/content/526d5920-91bf-11e2-b4c9-00144feabdc0">The Financial Times</a>.</p><p>A brief Q&A with Harry Lester at <a target="_blank" href="https://planque.co.uk/journal/harry-lester/">Planque</a>. </p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2">notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe</a>
November 1, 2024
Ep. 29: Christian Binner of Domaine Binner
<p><em>In Alsace, we won the first step, which is to be known as a natural wine region. and I’m happy about that. But now we have to make a second step. It’s to say, “Yeah we can produce some cheap wines - and it’s also good to have everyday drinking wines” - but we also have to explain that we have great terroir and we can making f*****g good wines.</em> - Christian Binner</p><p>Christian Binner is the head of <a target="_blank" href="https://www.alsace-binner.com/">Domaine Binner</a>, a 17ha estate in Ammerschwihr in the Haut-Rhin in Alsace, and the president and co-founder of the Associations des Vins Libres d’Alsace. His father <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dna.fr/societe/2023/05/06/les-85-ans-de-joseph-binner">Joseph Binner</a> had never gone in for synthetic chemical viticulture, which paved the way for Christian to oversee a transition to certified organic and soon after biodynamic viticulture after joining the estate at the turn of the century. Initiated into natural wine circles by a meeting with <a target="_blank" href="https://www.marcel-lapierre.com/">Marcel Lapierre</a> around the same time, Binner and his family embraced an ethos of natural winemaking; from 2012 (the year a new bioclimatic cellar was inaugurated) until 2022, Binner produced all his wines without added sulfites at any stage.</p><p>In addition to his estate work, Binner has been at the forefront of négociant natural winemaking in Alsace for over a decade, starting with a limited collaboration with <a target="_blank" href="https://bannwarth.fr/">Stéphane Bannwarth</a> in 2009. In 2014, Binner partnered with the team behind <a target="_blank" href="https://duo-oenologie.com/equipe-de-duo-oenologie/">DUO Oenologie</a>, Pierre Sanchez and <a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/xavier-couturier-of-duo-oenologie">Xavier Couturier</a>, to found <a target="_blank" href="https://www.lesvinspirouettes.com/">Les Vins Pirouettes</a>, an innovative négociant agency model that aimed to introduce neighboring estates just debuting in natural winemaking (with the aid of Sanchez and Couturier) to the wider natural wine market. Les Vins Pirouettes has since seen sizable growth and success on export markets, such that in 2023, Binner sold his shares in the business to his partners, preferring to concentrate on production at his own estate - and the founding of a smaller, higher-end Alsace Grand Cru négociant project entitled <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/meralla.fr?igsh=MTAyeWR1cWV4d3d5dA==">Mëralla</a>, in collaboration with his wife Michèle Ramponi. </p><p>I first met Binner years ago at Camille Lapierre’s <a target="_blank" href="https://wine.sprudge.com/2018/08/28/inside-festival-dezing-the-wild-end-of-summer-party-in-beaujolais/">Festival Dézing</a> in the Beaujolais, and have purchased his estate’s wines for a variety of restaurants and wine bars over the years. I joined him on an unusually sunny morning in May to chat about the precipitous rise of Alsace natural négociant wine; the challenges facing the <a target="_blank" href="https://vinmethodenature.org/">Syndicat de Défense des Vins Natures</a>; and the generational change that has taken place in natural wine service since COVID. </p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/aaronayscough/?hl=en">Aaron</a></p><p><p><em>This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all the episodes - plus reams of vigneron interviews, reports, restaurant reviews, commentary, and more - please subscribe!</em></p></p><p>FURTHER READING & LISTENING</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/what-is-the-cost-of-bargain-natural">What is the Cost of Bargain Natural Wine? </a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/xavier-couturier-of-duo-oenologie">Everyone Wants A Recipe: An Interview with Xavier Couturier of DUO Oenologie</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/pierre-dietrich-of-pepin-fighting">Fighting with the Weapons of Big Wine: An Interview with Pierre Dietrich of Pépin</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/jean-walch-of-au-fil-du-vin-libre">We Have to Re-do the Work: An Interview with Jean Walch of Au Fil du Vin Libre</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-23-mathieu-lapierre-of-domaine">Ep. 23: Mathieu Lapierre of Domaine Lapierre</a></p><p>My 2019 feature on Christian Binner in <a target="_blank" href="https://wine.sprudge.com/2019/01/17/in-the-vineyards-of-alsace-with-christian-binner/">Sprudge</a>. </p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2">notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe</a>
August 9, 2024
Ep. 28: Mads Kleppe
<p><em>I don't understand, but I respect people that can sit and drink Coche-Dury in their left hand, and Axel Prüfer in their right hand. I can understand why they still find [the former wine] interesting, but for me it was something that I'd let go of completely. I couldn't have moved to only working with natural wine without letting go of that other part.</em> - Mads Kleppe</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/madskleppe?igsh=MWM1Ym5iZDYzZ2l4ZA==">Mads Kleppe</a> is the gravel-voiced Norwegian sommelier responsible for radicalizing the natural wine program at renowned Copenhagen restaurant <a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/nomas-mixed-message">Noma</a> throughout the 2010s. Upon taking over in 2009 from earlier sommelier <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/doctorkrull?igsh=aG91N3R2M2U2ZXUw">Pontus Eloffson</a> (who had already begun emphasizing biodynamic and natural wines), Kleppe soon began championing the entirely unsulfited and unfiltered work of winemakers including Franz Strohmeier, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/laureanoserres?igsh=ZjdjcWJwZnc5NGQ3">Laureanno Serres</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/lasorgavin?igsh=MWh1Z2Z6czB6cXhheA==">Anthony Tortul</a>, Christian Tschida, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/tomlubbe?igsh=MXM3M2lsc3R6a2s4YQ==">Tom Lubbe</a>, and Axel Prüfer. Arguably more than anyone else in Noma’s wine lineage, Kleppe is responsible for what in natural wine circles is often referred to as “the Noma effect”: the phenomenon by which the famous restaurant’s imprimatur encouraged an unprecedented acceptance of - and enthusiasm for - natural wines previously deemed controversial among high-end restaurant buyers and clients alike. </p><p>Kleppe initially followed a classical sommelier career path, working at Oslo Michelin-two-starred restaurant <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagatelle_(restaurant)">Bagatelle</a>, while participating actively in sommelier competitions. He cites early encounters with Mâconnais vigneron <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/closdesvignesdumaynes?igsh=MTZyMHBjamo0c3g1Zg==">Julien Guillot</a> and then-burgeoning Etna star <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/closdesvignesdumaynes?igsh=MTZyMHBjamo0c3g1Zg==">Frank Cornelissen</a> (both in 2003) with sparking his initial interest in natural wine; upon moving to Copenhagen to work at Noma in 2009, he pursued the subject alongside peers in the Danish wine scene of the era, including <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/rosforthrosforth?igsh=MXM1d2llcmIyOHF3eg==">Sune Rosforth</a> and <a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-25-anders-frederik-steen">Anders Frederik Steen</a>. Throughout his career at Noma, Kleppe made a habit of traveling to visit winemakers on his days off. </p><p>Since leaving Noma in 2022, Kleppe has relocated to Tbilisi, where earlier this year he began work as the beverage director for Temur Ugulava’s vast <a target="_blank" href="https://adjaragroup.com/restaurants/">Adjara</a> restaurant group, which encompasses dozens of hotels, restaurants, and nightclubs, in addition to its Tbilisi flagship, the five-star <a target="_blank" href="https://stambahotel.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw_Na1BhAlEiwAM-dm7Gf0VjQFk5xPlsu2Uolm594fm5b-uiIhtN8JR7YI0ZHb4cKxkO_iTxoCuFUQAvD_BwE">Stamba Hotel</a>. I first met Kleppe in Copenhagen in 2021, when a chance meeting at <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/denvandrette?igsh=Mm5iOGcyZmYydTBi">Den Vandrette</a> led to an unforgettable two-day bicycle tour of many of the Danish capital’s finest natural wine spots. I also owe to Kleppe two sublime visits to Noma before the end of his tenure there. We recorded this episode in mid-May in the private dining room of Copenhagen restaurant <a target="_blank" href="https://restaurantbarr.com/en/home/">Barr</a>, which inhabits the dockside building that previously housed Noma. Check out the episode for Kleppe’s recollections of serving natural wine to U2; his favorite Georgian hangover cures; and why, within his peculiar synesthetic approach to wine mnemonics, “soup” is a color. </p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/aaronayscough/?hl=en">Aaron</a></p><p><p><em>This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all the episodes - plus reams of vigneron interviews, reports, restaurant reviews, commentary, and more - please subscribe!</em></p></p><p>FURTHER READING & LISTENING</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-24-sune-rosforth-of-rosforth-and">Ep. 24: Sune Rosforth</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-25-anders-frederik-steen">Ep. 25: Anders Frederick Steen</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-26-martin-ho-of-pompette">Ep. 26: Martin Ho of Pompette</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/ep-27-riccardo-marcon-of-barabba">Ep. 27: Riccardo Marcon of Barabba</a></p><p>Alice Feiring’s splendid July <a target="_blank" href="https://feiring.substack.com/p/a-viking-in-tbilisi">feature on Mads Kleppe</a>. </p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/nomas-mixed-message">Noma’s Mixed Message</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/copenhagen-natural-wine-chronicles">Podcast Series IV: Copenhagen Natural Wine Chronicles, Part I</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/les-emigrees-expat-natural-winemakers">Podcast Series III: Les Emigré(e)s - Expat Natural Winemakers in France, Part I</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/les-emigrees-pt-ii-expat-natural">Podcast Series III: Les Emigré(e)s - Expat Natural Winemakers in France, Part II</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/contemporary-paris-natural-wine">Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part I</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/3-new-podcast-episodes">Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part II</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/paris-natural-wine-lifers">Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part I</a><a target="_blank" href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/p/paris-natural-wine-lifers-part-ii">Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part II</a></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2">notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe</a>
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