Welcome to The Life Itself Podcast where we sit down to have conversations with thought leaders of the Second Renaissance. Through personal stories, deep enquiry and animated discussions covering culture, wisdom, technology, politics, spirituality, community life and much more, we aim to share wisdom and insight to create a wiser, weller world.
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Second Renaissance Research Call - Where Does the Thinking Go?
Any movement for civilizational renewal needs its discourse to compound: hypotheses about how renewal happens needs to evolve, questions and suggestions need to be captured and resolved. Right now it often doesn’t. Discussions are scattered across the forum or WhatsApp and frequently repeats itself; offers of help struggle to find a place to land.
The proposal here is to develop a “reason commons”, a place where shared thinking anchors to a tree of change — rather than a stack of documents. This means that discourse has a foundation to build on and to contribute to. We show how to use AI to connect everyday conversation to that tree with little extra work.
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14 Oct 2025
Jim Rutt: From Dotcom Boom to Game A Collapse
Rufus interviews Jim Rutt on his life journey to becoming chairman of the Santa Fe Institute and a leading pioneer of ‘Game B’. Rutt shares insight into the failures of the Game A financial system. Rufus and Rutt explore the historical context of our ‘Game A’ system and what characteristics a Game B communities need to survive and grow with integrity.
About the episode
In this Life Itself Podcast, Jim Rutt, a complexity thinker and former tech entrepreneur, recounts his early life hitchhiking across America and his journey to becoming a senior figure in Thomson’s internet transition (1992–1999) and Network Solutions’ $15 billion sale in 2000. Rutt details his early awareness of Game A’s unsustainability and bringing his work on complexity science, markets and social systems to the Santa Fe Institute. Rutt details the founding dialogues with Jordan Hall that led to ‘Game B’ a decentralised societal model to replace Game A—a civilisational mode Rutt and Rufus trace back to the treaty of Westphalia. Rutt describes the intensity of ‘willing to die’ spirit necessary for Game B values to take root & the kinds of meditation structures needed for Game B communities to scale together.
Chapters:
* 00:01:55 – Jim’s Childhood and 1976 Hitchhiking Adventures
* 00:16:23 – Leading Thomson’s Internet Transition (1992–1999)
* 00:18:38 – Realizing Game A’s Unsustainability (1994)
* 00:27:00 – Joining the Santa Fe Institute
* 00:29:25 – Uncovering the Monetary-Finance-Business Nexus (2007–2008)
* 00:29:31 – Reflections on Money and the Debt Regime
* 00:35:35 – Planning for an Uncertain Future
* 00:36:38 – The Treaty of Westphalia and Game A’s Foundations
* 01:40:37 – Introducing Game B
* 02:02:20 – Defining Game A and Game B
* 02:19:00 – The Personal-Institutional Spiral and Game B Communities
About the speakers:
Jim Rutt is the former CEO of Network Solutions. The New York Times once referred to him as “the Internet’s bad boy” due to his reputation for creative mischief. He sold Network Solutions at the peak of the Dot Com boom and then went into scientific research. Jim has been affiliated with the Santa Fe Institute since 2002, serving as Chairman from 2009 thru 2012. Since that time he has been spearheading the Game B movement and host of the Jim Rutt Show. “Dividend Money” Everything Jim Learned about money
The Jim Rutt Show: https://www.jimruttshow.com (https://www.jimruttshow.com)
Substack: Jim Rutt (https://substack.com/profile/280973-jim-rutt)
“Dividend Money” Everything Jim Learned about money
Rufus Pollock is an entrepreneur, activist and author as well as a long-term zen practitioner. He is passionate about finding wiser, weller ways to live together. He has founded several for-profit and nonprofit initiatives including Life Itself, Open Knowledge Foundation, and Datopian. His book Open Revolution is about making a radically freer and fairer information age. Previously he has been the Mead Fellow in Economics at the University of Cambridge as well as a Shuttleworth and Ashoka Fellow. A recognized global expert on the information society, he has worked with G7 governments, IGOs like the UN, Fortune 500s as well as many civil society organizations. He holds a PhD in Economics and a double first in Mathematics from the University of Cambridge.
Find out more about his work on his website: www.rufuspollock.com. (http://www.rufuspollock.com.)
Podcast Production:
Jacob Kishere of SENSESPACE Studio (https://open.substack.com/pub/sensespacestudio)
www.jacobkishere.com (http://www.jacobkishere.com)
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7 Oct 2025
Sylvie Barbier: Charlie Kirk, Forgiveness & The Power of Words
Sylvie Barbier brings sensemaking to bear on the polarization that followed the Kirk assassination and explores the significance of the Kirk memorial in an interview hosted by Jacob Kishere. The dialogue delves into the profound importance of speech, cycle-breaking forgiveness, non-violence, and remembering the sanctity of life.
About the episode:
In this episode of the Second Renaissance Podcast, we make sense of the polarization following the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Sylvie speaks to the power and necessity of forgiveness in breaking cycles of retaliation and explores what leadership can look like amid escalating division. We reflect on the nature of speech and the importance of recognizing the power of our words. The conversation closes with an appreciation of the existential importance of becoming joyfully alive in these times.
Chapters:
00:02:11 – Erika Kirk’s Forgiveness of the Killer00:08:00 – Why Our Words Matter00:16:50 – Sacred Anchoring & Breaking Cycles of Violence00:18:50 – Challenges Around “Speech as Violence”00:26:00 – Intention in Speech00:29:00 – Thich Nhat Hanh on Non-Violence & the Seeds of Hatred00:31:00 – Committing to Something Greater & the Joy of Being Alive
Speakers
Sylvie Shiwei Barbier is a French-Taiwanese performance artist, entrepreneur and educator. She co-founded Life Itself to build a wiser future through culture, space and community.
https://lifeitself.org/people/sylvieshiweibarbier (https://lifeitself.org/people/sylvieshiweibarbier)
Jacob Kishere is a dialogue facilitator, rapper, philosopher and writer. He is the creator of SENSESPACE podcast, author of Culturepilgrim and co-founder of The Resonant Man Initiative.
www.jacobkishere.com (http://www.jacobkishere.com)
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