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Conservative intellectual and Bulwark editor-at-large Bill Kristol joins hosts Josh Eakle and Max Marty to discuss his evolution from Republican insider to principled opponent of authoritarianism. Former chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle and architect of neoconservative foreign policy, Kristol reflects on how the party he helped shape for decades succumbed to populist demagoguery — and why he didn’t see it coming. The conversation explores whether the Reagan-Bush conservative movement was actually an historical aberration, masking deeper nativist currents that Trump successfully unleashed. Kristol argues that decent people across the political spectrum must band together against authoritarianism, just as classical liberals and social democrats united against fascism and communism in the 20th century. Topics Discussed:
* The journey from supporting Sarah Palin to becoming a Never Trumper — and why January 6th was the point of no return
* How the Tea Party movement evolved from fiscal conservatism to proto-MAGA populism
* Why immigration became the sleeper issue that reshaped Republican politics, even among affluent cruise-goers
* The three-legged stool’s collapse: how social conservatives, foreign policy hawks, and business elites all capitulated to Trump
* America First’s dark historical echoes and the return of 1920s-30s nativist isolationism
* Why ex-Republicans have unique credibility in warning about authoritarianism — the “Whittaker Chambers effect” • How Trump inadvertently pushed Democrats toward free trade and internationalism
* What Democrats can do to welcome center-right refugees without overthinking coalition politics
Links & Resources:
* The Bulwark (https://www.thebulwark.com/)
* Defending Democracy Together – https://www.defendingdemocracytogethe...
* Project Liberal – https://www.projectliberal.org
* Become a Project Liberal member – https://projectliberal.org/member (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa1FVYkpTX1FvYVY4d2F4MHJ2RXhqaFZaOEdkd3xBQ3Jtc0tsa2JhMGF4R09udk5mdk9rOWtoenQyeVFpVkZodUU5dGNndnB5dkMxYkVPN1IyeHE2bFdsZ2IzOXdxTTdCbjN3R1oyWlNXQTA4MHNLcV9wd1BYb29neFB3a0xzZGJiWU1KWGNkWDZlN3FSdmt5aTRaYw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fprojectliberal.org%2Fmember&v=COpSKBocShU)
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23 Sept 2025TRANSCRIPT
The End of Libertarian Fusionism | Aaron Ross Powell
Radical liberal and former Cato Institute scholar Aaron Ross Powell joins hosts Joshua Eakle and Max Marty at the Watergate Hotel for an in-person conversation about the collapse of libertarian-conservative fusionism and what comes next for defenders of liberal democracy. Powell, who founded libertarianism.org and hosted the Free Thoughts podcast for nearly a decade, explains why he abandoned the libertarian label as it became associated with illiberal populism.
The discussion explores how the libertarian movement fractured between cosmopolitan liberals seeking equal dignity for all and those using "liberty" rhetoric to defend traditional hierarchies. As President Trump's authoritarian populism tests American institutions, the conversation turns to whether radical liberals should pursue a new strategic alliance with the center-left — not as junior partners, but as principled advocates for the values of openness, pluralism, and individual autonomy.
Topics Discussed:
* The distinction between radical liberalism and libertarianism, and how the libertarian brand became toxic
* How fusionism trapped libertarians in a conservative coalition that ultimately betrayed liberal values
* The two libertarianisms revealed by Trump: cosmopolitan egalitarians versus hierarchy defenders
* Why tech libertarians shifted rightward after experiencing "woke" criticism in Silicon Valley
* The credibility radical liberals now have warning about concentrated state power after Trump's rise
* Building a pro-democracy coalition that welcomes liberal conservatives without demanding ideological purity
* The realignment from left-right to open-closed society, and where radical liberals fit
* Why opposing authoritarian populism requires strange bedfellows and a commitment to shared liberal values
Links & Resources:
* Aaron Ross Powell's website – https://www.aaronrosspowell.com
* Reimagining Liberty podcast – https://pod.link/1614436300 (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbFowZ1NCSUlVZVFvcExFcmtmbFN3Qy1sODM0UXxBQ3Jtc0tta0lzd1VoNzVJM01jOFpTTTBKY0czdFN6cDF3WE1wbnNwN2ZteTJoeld4LXNnWW9oV2U5cy03NjBlSFRCdm5yRGwzeEZfbG1iSDI4LUNmOFhsdFZPLXJtOGJxZFRlN25reDlTajd0dTByWndOTC1zWQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fpod.link%2F1614436300&v=3orl9ihVOiI)
* Project Liberal – https://www.projectliberal.org
* Become a Project Liberal member – https://projectliberal.org/member (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqazQxM1AyUkM2NFRLOG5pMm1ia2ZrRHhORk9uZ3xBQ3Jtc0ttN1dXRG80OWVqbUptVFo0c2FaTnVUYVllV3gyRnRqT09pbGhOYkJ4cUY0WTh5aE1tZEdXQkpSdVRsbEdKNHVidHR5UzVDRExhRVdxVjNMTDFGbWM1bUN3X0N1ZmdjeGo1NlY5SWtJcmVQTkhHQ0JsZw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fprojectliberal.org%2Fmember&v=3orl9ihVOiI)
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2 Sept 2025TRANSCRIPT
"It's Time to Play Dirty" | Rachel Bitecofer
Political analyst and messaging strategist Rachel Bitecofer joins hosts Max Marty and Josh Eakle for a provocative discussion about why Democrats keep losing the messaging war—and what it will take to fight back against authoritarian threats. Rachel is the Author of "Hit Them Where It Hurts," arguing that Democrats' preference for positive campaigning and policy wonkery is a luxury the country can no longer afford.
The conversation explores the psychology of voter behavior, the asymmetry in campaign tactics between parties, and whether Democrats must embrace fear-based messaging to save democracy itself. Max pushes back on the "race to the bottom" concern while Bitecofer insists the house is already on fire—and worrying about furniture arrangements can wait.
Topics Discussed:
* Why party identification explains 90% of vote choice—and how Rachel believes Republicans weaponize this through negative branding
* Loss aversion psychology: Why fear motivates voters more than hope or policy promises
* The 2024 postmortem: How $1 billion in positive Democratic ads failed while Trump's "she's for they/them" attacks succeeded
* Is appealing to voter's virtue a trap
* Historical parallels to 1930s Europe and why humans are psychologically wired to deny threats until it's too late
Links & Resources:
* Rachel Bitecofer's on Substack "The Cycle" –https://substack.com/@thecycle?
* "Hit Them Where It Hurts" by Rachel Bitecofer – https://a.co/d/0ri9Pni
* Project Liberal – https://www.projectliberal.org
* Become a Project Liberal member and help us make more content like this – https://projectliberal.org/member
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Inside a recent episode
I Should've Seen It Coming | Bill Kristol
Published 1 Oct 2025 · Transcript excerpt
[…] I mean, we don't know, right? What if the primaries had gone in a different direction and did some democratic, some year with the democrats or, you know, the different events that happened with different people as presidents? So I don't, you know, the bomb was, it was easy for the republicans to be anti -immigration once in the sixth, seventh, eighth year of the Obama presidency. What if that were still a Bush presidency? I mean, there's one kind of imagined other scenarios, and I don't think what should be overly deterministic. And I do think a lot of what happened in the US case, at least, clearly there was a global thing going on, was sort of Trump specific. […]
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