The Butcher Shop

About The Butcher Shop

Raw conversations with master angler tiers who craft and fish the deadliest streamers in the game. Each episode dissects signature patterns and complete systems for hunting trophy brown trout, musky, pike and bass. No recipes - just proven tactics from predator specialists who consistently deliver the goods.

Publisher

The Articulate Fly

Category

education · leisure · sports

Language

en

Explicit

Yes

First episode

24 Jan 2025

Latest episode

18 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

36 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   18 Oct 2026

   S8, Ep 78: From Bass to Big Sky: Eric Hurst on Boat Tunes, Big Flies and Keeping It Real - The Articulate Fly

   Episode Overview On this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/people/marvin-cash/) sits down with Eric Hurst, the fly designer behind the Umpqua-produced Thrasher (https://www.umpqua.com/thrasher/?searchuuid=89789af5-11c1-4d13-95f9-fdd92673741c&amp;search_query=thrasher) and Agent Scully (https://www.umpqua.com/agent-scully/) streamers, fresh off his first season in Montana. It's a candid conversation about guiding burnout, building a name from scratch and designing streamers that actually swim. For serious streamer tiers and anglers weighing a move from Southeastern tailwaters to big Western trout water, Hurst's perspective is unusually raw and practical. Hurst grew up bass fishing in Alabama and came to fly fishing self-taught, learning to tie largely from YouTube before spending close to a decade guiding out of Alpharetta Outfitters (https://alpharettaoutfitters.com) on the Georgia tailwaters around Atlanta, with days in Tennessee and North Carolina. Now working for Kelly Galloup at Galloup's Slide Inn (https://www.slideinn.com) in Montana, he explains why Western trout key on hatches far more exclusively than Southeastern fish, why he would rather fish a good caddis hatch than chase the salmonfly hype and why he has stepped away from guiding until he knows his new water well enough to be fully confident. The heart of the episode is streamer design: his profile-first philosophy, the Mike Schmidt "rule of halves" for building a tapered silhouette, pairing buoyant and sinking materials so the fly works with less input on the retrieve and a glue-free thread wrap, also from Schmidt, for securing articulation wire. He also shares how Umpqua came to him about the Thrasher and Agent Scully, previews his new Secret Shopper, walks through the materials currently on his bench and makes the case for Bobbin the Hood as the event every streamer tier should attend. Key Takeaways How to build a tapered streamer profile with the "rule of halves," sizing each successive material at roughly half the length of the one behind it. Why pairing buoyant materials like deer hair with sinking materials like Laser Dub produces a fly that moves on its own and requires less work on the retrieve. How to secure articulation wire without glue using Mike Schmidt's back-and-forth thread wrap that tightens under tension like a Chinese finger trap. Why trout in Montana key on the hatch more exclusively than fish on Southeastern tailwaters like the South Holston, and what that means for an angler moving west. Why less is more at the vise, from trimming back a fly that already looks finished to pulling out long fibers rather than stacking materials. How handing new patterns to shop staff and clients gives a designer more objective field-testing feedback than fishing them personally. Techniques &amp; Gear Covered The tying discussion centers on articulated streamers and swim flies, including Hurst's Thrasher, a swim fly tied weighted or unweighted, and the Agent Scully sculpin pattern, both produced by Umpqua in standard and mini sizes, with the newly added Secret Shopper to follow. He breaks down two techniques he learned from Mike Schmidt, the rule of halves and a glue-free thread wrap down the articulation wire, along with his recent move from two Hareline 3D beads to one for better swimming action. On the materials side he highlights Montana Fly Company's (https://montanafly.com) peppered chenille, used on Mike Schultz's Woodsman to build profile without holding water, and Kelly Galloup's Fish Feathers from MFC printed in rainbow, brown and speckled trout patterns. At the bench he ties on a black-and-gold Regal vise and brushes out fibers with a switchblade-style comb from Gatlinburg, Tennessee. For a deeper dive into swim fly mechanics, see BONUS - The Science of Streamers (Pt II): Kirk Klingensmith on Swim Flies (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-the-science-of-streamers-pt-ii-kirk-klingensmith-on-swim-flies/). Locations &amp; Species Hurst cut his teeth guiding trout on the Georgia tailwaters around Atlanta, with additional trips in Tennessee and North Carolina, before relocating to Montana for his first season on Western trout water. His biggest adjustment has been how selectively Montana trout key on hatches compared with Southeastern tailwater fish, even during strong sulphur hatches on the South Holston. He describes this year's Montana salmonfly hatch as hit or miss, fishing more like streamer fishing where you have to be in the right place at the right time, and says he would rather catch a good caddis hatch. His fishing roots go back to bluegill and bass in Alabama, which he still revisits to keep himself grounded. FAQ / Key Questions Answered What is the rule of halves in streamer tying? The rule of halves, which Hurst credits to Mike Schmidt, sizes each material at about half the length of the material tied in behind it. For example, a schlappen tail is followed by bucktail at half the tail's length, and the main body is half the length of the bucktail. The result is a fly that tapers naturally, and Hurst says you can see the improved profile when it swims. How do you secure articulation wire on a streamer without glue? Using a technique he learned from Mike Schmidt, Hurst wraps thread down the wire, back up halfway, down the full length and back up halfway again so the wraps behave like a Chinese finger trap: the harder the connection pulls, the tighter it gets. He stopped using glue on his articulation connections entirely after adopting the technique. How is fly fishing for trout in Montana different from Southeastern tailwaters? According to Hurst, Montana trout key on the hatch far more exclusively than fish back east. Southeastern tailwater trout will lock onto a strong sulphur hatch on the South Holston, but Western fish often want only what is hatching. He also found the salmonfly hatch less dependable than its reputation and prefers a strong caddis hatch for dry fly fishing. How did Eric Hurst get his fly patterns picked up by Umpqua? Umpqua reached out to Hurst first, while he was still tying purely for fun, and asked whether he had ever considered submitting patterns. He sent in the Thrasher, named for Georgia's state bird the brown thrasher as a nod to brown trout, and the Agent Scully, a sculpin pattern named as a nod to The X-Files. Both are now available in standard and mini sizes, the Secret Shopper is coming and he hopes to add micro versions. What does it take to be a good fly fishing guide? Hurst says a good guide has to love teaching and sharing, and that catching fish is secondary because no guide can make fish eat. He approaches every trip as a teacher who wants to fish through his clients, and he will not take anyone out on water he is not fully confident on. He also warns that giving everything to clients day after day takes a real mental toll. Sponsors Thanks to TroutRoutes (https://maps.troutroutes.com/) for sponsoring this episode. Use ARTFLY20 to get 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership. Related Content BONUS - The Science of Streamers (Pt II): Kirk Klingensmith on Swim Flies (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-the-science-of-streamers-pt-ii-kirk-klingensmith-on-swim-flies/) BONUS - A Deep Dive into the Swingin' D: Techniques and Tips with Mike Schultz (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-a-deep-dive-into-the-swingin-d-techniques-and-tips-with-mike-schultz-the-butcher-shop/) S8, Ep 14 - Crafting Connections: Blane Chocklett on Fly Design and Conservation at Tie Fest (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s8-ep-14-chocklett-factory-tuning-swim-flies/) S7, Ep 9 - Inside The Chocklett Factory: New Fly Tying Products, Bobbin and More with Blane Chocklett (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s7-ep-9-the-chocklett-factory/) S8, Ep 64 - Streamer Strategies: Ellis Ward's Late Day Fishing Tips for East Tennessee (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s8-ep-64-east-tn-fishing-report-ellis-ward-low-light-streamer-tactics/) Connect with Our Guest Follow Eric on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/erichurst/). Follow the Show Follow The Articulate Fly (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com) on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thearticulatefly), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thearticulatefly/), Threads (https://www.threads.com/@thearticulatefly?xmt=AQF0VLj314Z_G910nAh8-ilrIZiwr8fzr4tZBWxaNNqyvCY) and YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/c/TheArticulateFly). Follow our <a href="https://thearticulatefly.substack.com" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

2. 

   3 Sept 2026

   S8, Ep 64: Streamer Strategies: Ellis Ward's Late Day Fishing Tips for East Tennessee - The Articulate Fly

   Episode Overview How should anglers pick streamer color when the light drops out on an East Tennessee tailwater? On this East Tennessee Fishing Report from The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/people/marvin-cash/) checks in with guide Ellis Ward (https://www.elliswardflies.com) for a conditions update on the Watauga River and the South Holston River after an unusually wet stretch pulled the region out of a prolonged post-Helene drought. Ellis walks through how the sudden swing from months of low water to near-constant rain has scrambled the normal dam release schedule, turning a predictable one-to-six-o'clock Watauga generation window into something closer to ten-to-six or noon-to-nine depending on the day, while the South Holston has only recently returned to regular releases after the TVA system spent the better part of a year recovering from drought. That inconsistency has made dry fly fishing unpredictable, so Ellis has leaned harder into dirty water streamer fishing, night fishing and mousing to keep clients on fish. The back half of the episode tackles a listener question on late-day streamer selection: Ellis explains that a fly's color has almost nothing to do with how a trout perceives it in low light or off-color water, since a backlit fly reads only as a silhouette regardless of hue. Instead, he breaks down why opacity and water-column position, not color, drive strikes when the sun drops or the water turns dirty, using a four-inch Drunk and Disorderly as his low light standard. Key Takeaways How to read Watauga and South Holston release schedules when heavy rain pushes actual generation windows well beyond their posted baseline times. Why a streamer's color becomes irrelevant to trout in backlit or off-color water, since profile and opacity determine what the fish actually sees from below. When to switch to a bigger, opaque streamer fished higher in the water column for low light or dirty water strikes. How positioning a streamer near the surface exploits the same predatory "kill shot" instinct anglers see when a big trout follows a fly up before committing. Techniques &amp; Gear Covered Ellis breaks down a practical framework for low light and off-color water streamer fishing: when light is reduced by cloud cover, a low sun angle or dirty water, color stops mattering because a backlit fly is seen only in silhouette, so the two variables that matter are opacity (how fully the fly blocks light) and where it sits in the water column. He favors densely packed materials such as deer hair or craft fur over sparsely tied bucktail for maximum light-blocking, contrasting a sparse bucktail fly with a Craft Fur Changer to illustrate how much more effectively the denser material blocks light once it's wet and compressed. He fishes that fly higher in the water column so a predatory trout gets a clean, unobstructed shot at it rather than having to hunt it out of deeper, murkier water. His go-to for these conditions is a four-inch Drunk and Disorderly, fished in white, yellow or tan with some flash since color reads as irrelevant to the fish in these conditions. Locations &amp; Species This report covers the Watauga River and the South Holston River tailwaters in East Tennessee, both part of the TVA's 32-dam reservoir and tailwater system. The primary target species is brown trout, with the discussion centered on dry fly fishing during stable release windows and streamer fishing when water runs high or dirty. Seasonally, the region is climbing out of a prolonged drought that followed Hurricane Helene, with persistent heavy rainfall now producing extended and inconsistent dam releases, flash flooding on Watauga tributaries and a tradeoff between stained water (better streamer fishing) and clearer water (better dry fly fishing). FAQ / Key Questions Answered What color streamer should I fish in low light conditions? Color is largely irrelevant once light is reduced by clouds, a low sun angle or dirty water, because a fly viewed from below against a backlit sky reads only as a silhouette. Instead, focus on opacity (how completely the fly blocks light) and fish it higher in the water column where a trout can see and commit to it more easily. Why doesn't fly color matter to trout in dirty or backlit water? When an object is backlit or viewed through off-color water, black, white and every color in between look essentially the same dark shape, since there isn't enough light transmission for the fish to distinguish hue. What a trout actually keys on in these conditions is the fly's profile and how much light it blocks, not its color. How should I position my streamer in the water column during low light or stained water conditions? Fish it higher in the water column rather than dredging it deep, since a trout has an easier time targeting prey it can silhouette against the surface than something buried in dark, off-color water. This also mimics how predatory fish naturally corral baitfish toward the surface for an easier, more effective strike. How have this season's dam release schedules on the Watauga and the South Holston been affected by heavy rain? After a long post-Helene drought, persistent heavy rainfall has pushed the Watauga well beyond its normal generation window, turning its typical one-to-six-o'clock release into stretches closer to ten-to-six or noon-to-nine depending on the day. The South Holston only resumed regular releases in the past couple of weeks after the broader TVA system spent months recovering from low water, making dry fly fishing inconsistent this summer. Related Content S8, Ep 50 - Navigating Summer Waters: Ellis Ward on Trout, Musky and the Art of the Evening Bite (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s8-ep-50-east-tn-fishing-report-ellis-ward-summer-tactics/) S8, Ep 37 - Big Water, Big Fish: Ellis Ward's Strategies for Streamer Fishing Success (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s8-ep-37-east-tn-fishing-report-ellis-ward-musky-tactics-for-trout/) S7, Ep 45 - Navigating the Waters: Streamers and Strategies in East Tennessee with Ellis Ward (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s7-ep-45-east-tn-fishing-report/) S6, Ep 128 - Catch Big Fish: Ellis Ward's Insider Tips for East Tennessee Anglers (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s6-ep-128-east-tennessee-fishing-report/) View all East Tennessee Fishing Report episodes with Ellis Ward (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/guests/ellis-ward/) Connect with Our Guest To learn more about Ellis, check out our interview (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s4-ep-122-an-evening-with-ellis-ward/)! Follow the Show Follow The Articulate Fly (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com) on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thearticulatefly), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thearticulatefly/), Threads (https://www.threads.com/@thearticulatefly?xmt=AQF0VLj314Z_G910nAh8-ilrIZiwr8fzr4tZBWxaNNqyvCY) and YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/c/TheArticulateFly). Follow our Substack newsletter (https://thearticulatefly.substack.com) for episode updates, tips and resources. Support the Show Shop through our Amazon link (https://www.amazon.com/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;language=en_US&amp;linkCode=sl2&amp;linkId=ea717321828075eabd3b608fd6895f82&amp;tag=thearticulate-20) to support the podcast. Join our Patreon community (https://www.patreon.com/thearticulatefly) to support the show. If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our consulting options (https://www.thearticulatefly.com/consulting). Subscribe &amp; Advertise Subscribe (https://lnk.to/thearticulatefly) to the podcast in your favorite podcast app. Think our community is a good fit for your brand? Advertise (https://www.thearticulatefly.com/advertise) with us

3. 

   15 Aug 2026

   S2, Ep 6: The Science of Streamers (Pt II): Kirk Klingensmith on Swim Flies

   Episode Overview On this episode of The Butcher Shop fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/people/marvin-cash/) welcomes back Kirk Klingensmith for Part Two of their Science of Streamers conversation, this time digging into the physics behind swim flies and the Game Changer platform. Klingensmith brings an engineer's eye to the vise, breaking down why doubling a fly's length doesn't mean doubling its diameter and why that distinction matters more than most tiers realize. The conversation opens with the geometry of drag: length scales linearly, but diameter drives drag by the square, so a modest increase in diameter has an outsized effect on a fly's action. From there, Klingensmith and Cash trace how turbulence created at the front of a swim fly, whether from a deer hair lip, a cupped popper head or simply a bulky front-loaded profile, sets up the unstable eddy currents that make the rear of the fly undulate on the retrieve. They cover material choices (marabou, rabbit, craft fur, Flashabou) that add movement, the role of shank engineering and segmentation in producing a serpentine swim, and how stinger hook placement and connection material (wire, gel-spun, mono) change both the fly's action and its hookup rate on short-striking fish. A highlight of the episode is Klingensmith's breakdown of Brian Shumaker's Shimmering Minnow and the "hover and twitch" presentation he uses on pressured smallmouth bass in warm summer water. Key Takeaways How to scale a streamer's diameter separately from its length, since drag increases geometrically with diameter while length scales in linear proportion Why turbulence-inducing elements like a deer hair lip, a cupped popper head or an oversized front profile make a swim fly kick and undulate on the retrieve instead of just sinking straight When to fish a swim fly on a dead-stop hover rather than a fast retrieve, particularly for pressured smallmouth bass in warm summer water How to use material mass and segment placement to dial in a tighter or more gradual S-curve swimming action on an articulated fly Why adding a stinger hook can improve hookups on short-striking predatory fish while also changing how much mass and crash the tail of the fly carries How fly designers use a "chassis" mindset, treating patterns like the Clouser Minnow or Game Changer as adaptable platforms rather than fixed recipes Techniques &amp; Gear Covered Klingensmith explains swim fly action as a function of engineered turbulence: a drag-inducing front end (a lip, a cupped head or simply a bulky profile) creates unstable eddy currents that the rear of the fly follows, producing the swimming motion, while a laminar (streamlined) front would produce no swim at all. He details how progressively smaller shanks toward the tail increase segmentation and produce a more serpentine undulation, and how adding mass to those rear segments dampens the action into a slower, more gradual S-curve. On stinger hook rigging, he walks through connection options (wire, gel-spun, mono) and how hook placement and gauge affect both the fly's swim and its hook-up percentage on fish that nip at the tail rather than eating the head. Named patterns discussed include the Game Changer platform and two of its variants, the Jerk Changer and the Feather Changer, along with the Drunk &amp; Disorderly, Brian Shumaker's Shimmering Minnow, the Clouser Minnow, Bob Popovics' Beast Fleye and Chris Walker's Kreelex-variant, a stinger-hook trout streamer designed for brown trout that key on the tail. FAQ / Key Questions Answered Why don't fly proportions scale linearly when you size up a streamer pattern? Because drag from a cylindrical or spherical shape increases geometrically with diameter while length only scales linearly. Klingensmith explains that it's reasonable to scale a fly's length proportionally when going from, say, four inches to six inches, but the diameter should only be increased modestly, not scaled by the same ratio, or the fly's action and drag profile will be thrown off. What makes a swim fly like the Game Changer move with a swimming action instead of just sinking? The action comes from turbulence engineered into the front of the fly. A lip, a cupped popper head or simply a bulky, non-streamlined front end creates a drag source that generates unstable eddy currents, and the rest of the fly follows those currents on the retrieve. A streamlined, laminar-flow front would not produce this swimming motion. How does adding a stinger hook affect a swim fly's action and hookup rate? It depends heavily on how the shank-to-stinger connection is built, whether with wire, gel-spun line or mono, and whether the hook is left free or incorporated into the tail material. Stinger hooks are especially effective on predatory fish that nip at a fly's tail rather than striking the head, and shorter-shank designs like octopus hooks tend to hold hooked fish more securely than long-shank hooks. What is the "hover and twitch" technique Kirk Klingensmith uses for pressured smallmouth? Rather than burning the fly back with a fast retrieve, Klingensmith lays the Shimmering Minnow within six inches of structure and lets it twitch and suspend with almost no forward motion, letting subtle microcurrent movement do the work. He believes this near-motionless presentation gives pressured smallmouth, especially in warm water, something they haven't already learned to refuse. How can fly tiers control the tightness of a swim fly's S-curve swimming action? By adjusting material mass in the segments behind the head. Lighter segments produce a tighter, more pronounced undulation, while adding more mass and gradually stepping it down through the rear segments dampens the action into a slower, more gradual S-curve. Sponsors Thanks to TroutRoutes (https://maps.troutroutes.com/) for sponsoring this episode. Use ARTFLY20 to get 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership. Related Content Listen to The Science of Streamers (Pt I) (https://the-butcher-shop.thearticulatefly.com/episode/s2-ep-5-streamer-physics-with-kirk-klingensmith) BONUS: The Science of Streamers (Pt I): Kirk Klingensmith on Jigging and Wrecking Flies (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-the-science-of-streamers-pt-i-kirk-klingensmith-on-jigging-and-wrecking-flies/) BONUS: Castability Unleashed: Mark Sedotti's Journey with the Sedotti Slammer (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-castability-unleashed-mark-sedottis-journey-with-the-sedotti-slammer/) BONUS: Swine Design Secrets: Eli Berant Discusses the Optimus Swine (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-swine-design-secrets-eli-berant-discusses-the-optimus-swine/) S6, Ep 144: The Chocklett Factory: Conservation, New Products and a Legacy Remembered (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s6-ep-144-the-chocklett-factory/) Connect with Our Guest Follow Kirk on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/kirk.klingensmith) and Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/nyflyfisher/). Follow the Show Follow The Articulate Fly (https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/) on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thearticulatefly), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thearticulatefly/), Threads (https://www.threads.com/@thearticulatefly?xmt=AQF0VLj314Z_G910nAh8-ilrIZiwr8fzr4tZBWxaNNqyvCY) and YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/c/TheArticulateFly). Follow our Substack newsletter (https://thearticulatefly.substack.com/) for episode updates, tips and resources. Support the Show Shop through our Amazon link (https://www.amazon.com/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;language=en_US&amp;linkCode=sl2&amp;linkId=ea717321828075eabd3b608fd6895f82&amp;tag=thearticulate-20) to support the podcast. Join our Patreon community (https://www.patreon.com/thearticulatefly) to support the show. If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our consulting options (https://www.thearticulatefly.com/consulting). Subscribe &amp; Advertise Subscribe (https://lnk.to/thearticulatefly) to the podcast in your favorite podcast app. Think our community is a good fit for your brand? Advertise (https://www.thearticulatefly.com/advertise) with us. Helpful Episode Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:51 Scaling Fly Geometry 05:35 How Swim Flies Swim 11:28 Paused Retrieves Matter Most 16:26 Stinger Hooks and Fly...

Who has been a guest on The Butcher Shop

Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.

• Brendan Ruch
• Fletcher Sams
• Russ Maddin

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

YouTube views

73,521

Score snapshot 15 Sept 2025

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

15 ratings

Spotify

5.0 / 5

10 ratings

Podcast Authority Score: 53 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

55

Social presence

0

YouTube

76

Engagement

51

Contact The Butcher Shop

Guest appearances

Does not typically book guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.

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Questions about The Butcher Shop