by The Articulate Fly
The Long Haul Fly Fishing Podcast with The Articulate Fly regularly releases interviews with national and regional personalities covering fly fishing, fly tying and fly fishing travel. If you love The Articulate Fly Fly Fishing Podcast interviews but would like to skip the fishing reports, The Long Haul is for you! To learn more or to check out The Articulate Fly Fly Fishing Podcast (interviews and fishing reports), visit www.thearticulatefly.com.
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9/11/2018
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May 15, 2026
This episode we speak with fly tier Jason Taylor about his fishing background and how he came to fly fishing later in life. He shares early memories of fishing with his father at a farm pond in Virginia and spending time on his uncle’s party boat near the Chesapeake Bay before getting into fly fishing after planning a trip to Belize. We discuss how local fly shops and online forums helped shape his development. Jason talks about early guidance from people at TCO, especially Steve Spurgeon, and about meeting and learning from tyers such as Bob Popovics and David Nelson through forums and at shows. He describes those communities as important places for sharing ideas and techniques. Jason also explains his tying philosophy. He emphasizes purpose, efficiency, and using the least material needed to make a fly work. He says he approaches patterns by thinking about the final result first and working backward, and he prefers natural materials because they slow him down and fit his style. A major part of the conversation focuses on hollow flies and related streamers. Jason talks about why the hollow-fly platform is adaptable, how he has modified patterns with materials such as ostrich, and how he uses brushes in some designs to save time. He also discusses his ideas about fly movement, buoyancy, and the role of profile in getting effective patterns for different species. We finish with practical tying advice and material selection. Jason shares tips on using Crazy Glue on thread, cutting bucktail before tying it in, and choosing soft, kinky bucktail and finer ostrich. He also mentions tools he keeps at the bench, materials he is experimenting with, and shows where he appears, including Edison and occasional regional events.
April 24, 2026
<h2>Episode Overview</h2><p>The Butcher Shop goes deep on one of the Great Lakes predator fly world's most distinctive patterns in this conversation with Eli Berant, the Michigan-based fly designer and founder of <a href="http://greatlakesfly.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Great Lakes Fly</a>. Eli is the creator of the Optimus Swine — a reverse foam head-embedded, side-kicking musky streamer that has been turning heads and producing fish since around 2009. In this episode, host <a href="www.linkedin.com/in/marvinscash" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Marvin Cash</a> walks Eli through the full arc of the pattern: the lake musky problem it was designed to solve, the unconventional decision to reverse a foam popper head to create a slower fall and a pronounced glide-bait wiggle, the material choices that define the fly's profile and movement and the step-by-step construction logic from spinner bait hook to laser dub head.</p><p>The conversation covers the full Swine family — the original 8–9 inch version on a 6/0 Mustad, the scaled-down Swine Junior for river smallmouth and stripers, the fettuccine-foam Pot Belly Swine for subsurface river applications, and the articulated Maximus Swine and Maximus Swine Junior, which remain something of a "secret menu" offering. Eli also addresses color selection by region — from olive-and-pink for fired-up Tennessee muskies to the Wisconsin-proven Willen's Villain black-white-yellow combo and his own favorite Mardi Gras pattern — and breaks down his preferred line and leader systems for lake musky versus river smallmouth applications. Throughout, the discussion grounds fly design theory in direct, tactical fishing application.</p><h2>Key Takeaways</h2><ul><li>How reversing a foam popper head toward the rear of the hook creates a slower fall rate and induces the Optimus Swine's distinctive side-to-side glide-bait action.</li><li>Why proportionality in bucktail application — specifically how much material per section and how many sections — is the most common failure point for tiers attempting the Swine for the first time.</li><li>How to tune the Pot Belly Swine's fettuccine foam piece by removing individual strips to achieve neutral balance and proper swim orientation before fishing.</li><li>Why a jerk-strip retrieve with a sinking line (350–450 grain tip) is the preferred delivery system for lake musky, allowing the sink tip to hold depth while the fly kicks side to side on each pull.</li><li>When to dial back retrieve aggression and employ a stutter-strip or extended pause with the Swine Junior, particularly during cold-water conditions when bass are holding and waiting.</li><li>Why sharing newly discovered synthetic fly tying materials openly — rather than hoarding them — is essential to keeping those materials in production and available to the broader tying community.</li></ul><br/><h2>Techniques & Gear Covered</h2><p>The Optimus Swine is designed around a jerk-strip retrieve that drives its foam-induced side-to-side action, and Eli breaks down exactly how to execute it — stripping two feet with the line hand in alternating pulls, roughly like ripping a bag open. For lake musky, he runs a 10-weight with a 350–450 grain sinking tip, paired with a short 3–4 foot leader from loop to fly — a butt section of 40-pound to wire, finished with cross-lock snaps for fast fly changes. River smallmouth and striper applications drop to a 7- or 8-weight with a 200–350 grain tip depending on conditions. Construction-specific details are substantial: Mustad 32608 spinner bait hook (6/0 for the original), Rainy's Mini Me medium foam popper head reversed and goop-set with silicone adhesive, synthetic yak hair blended with flash for the tail, grizzly saddle feathers as flanks, Magnum Flashabou, everyday bucktail applied in top-and-bottom sections, laser dub for the head, and 1/2-inch eyes pressed and held in a two-touch goop cure process. <a href="https://www.aflyco.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Anadromous Fly Company</a> tungsten carbide scissors get a specific callout as Eli's go-to cutting tool for heavy production tying.</p><h2>Locations & Species</h2><p>The Optimus Swine was developed specifically for lake musky, with Lake Saint Clair in Michigan serving as the primary proving ground — a relatively snag-free fishery that allows anglers to fish sinking lines freely across the water column. The pattern's documented multi-species versatility extends to Great Lakes migratory species, pike, lake trout, stripers on the East Coast and river smallmouth, including Eli's personal use of the Swine Junior on Lake Saint Clair for targeting large smallmouth by eliminating the smaller fish. Color selection is explicitly regional in the episode: olive-and-pink for fired-up Tennessee fish, pink-and-chartreuse or the Willen's Villain black-white-yellow for Wisconsin tannic water, and Mardi Gras (pink, chartreuse, black head) as a broadly effective pattern.</p><h2>FAQ / Key Questions Answered</h2><h3>How does the reversed foam popper head make the Optimus Swine swim differently than other musky flies?</h3><p>Positioning the foam head toward the rear of the hook — rather than at the front — reduces the fly's sink rate compared to a traditional epoxy-head pattern and shifts the center of buoyancy rearward. This causes the fly to kick side to side with a pronounced glide-bait cadence on a jerk-strip retrieve, rather than simply pushing water or diving. The effect is amplified when fishing a sinking tip, which holds the running line low and forces the rear of the fly to tip upward and roll on each strip.</p><h3>What are the most common mistakes tiers make when tying the Optimus Swine?</h3><p>Eli identifies two primary failure points: applying bucktail in clumps that are too large, which destroys proportionality, and using too much laser dub in the head, which throws the silhouette out of balance. The fix for bucktail is learning to feel the correct bundle size — roughly the width of a toothpick at the pinch, the width of a popsicle stick at the ends — and building five top-and-bottom sections before reaching the laser dub head on the original Swine. Managing the laser dub means stacking it, pulling off loose fibers and removing material rather than adding more.</p><h3>How do you tune the Pot Belly Swine to swim correctly for river applications?</h3><p>Because the Pot Belly Swine uses fettuccine foam strips in place of the reversed popper head, Eli ties in more foam strips than needed — six to eight — and tells buyers they may need to remove one to four strips to get the fly to balance and swim true. The goal is first to eliminate any spin or tilt, then to dial in the side-to-side action. This is the same principle as Barry Reynolds's flash philosophy applied to buoyancy: put in more than you need because you can always remove it, but you can't add it once the fly is finished.</p><h3>What line and leader setup does Eli prefer for lake musky with the Optimus Swine?</h3><p>For open lake musky fishing on snag-light water, Eli runs a 10-weight with a Scientific Anglers sinking tip in the 350–450 grain range, specifically preferring striper-style lines with a long 26–28 foot tip section. Leaders are intentionally short — 3–4 feet total from loop to fly — built with a 2-foot 40-pound butt section going straight to wire, then a cross-lock snap at the fly. The short leader keeps the fly in the sink tip's depth zone and maximizes the kicking action on the jerk-strip retrieve.</p><h3>How should retrieve style change when downsizing to the Swine Junior for smallmouth or stripers?</h3><p>Moving to the smaller patterns calls for a less aggressive retrieve cadence overall, but Eli emphasizes breaking out of monotonous repetition — consciously varying the retrieve is as important as the base technique. Key adjustments include a stutter-strip (half-length pulls done twice in quick succession) and extended pauses, which become particularly effective in cold water when bass are holding and watching the fly. The foam piece in all Swine variants allows the fly to hang suspended during a pause without sinking, which is the primary trigger for following fish.</p><h2>Sponsors</h2><p>Thanks to <u><a href="https://maps.troutroutes.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">TroutRoutes</a></u> for sponsoring this episode. Use ARTFLY20 to get 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership.</p><h2>Related Content</h2><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s1-ep-2-the-t-bone-a-deep-dive-with-blane-chocklett-the-butcher-shop/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">S1, Ep 2: The T-Bone: A Deep Dive with Blane Chocklett - The Butcher Shop</a></p><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-shack-nasties-and-the-drunk-disorderly-a-winter-chat-with-tommy-lynch/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BONUS: Shack Nasties and the Drunk & Disorderly: A Winter Chat with Tommy Lynch</a></p><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-crafting-the-nut-job-a-deep-dive-with-brendan-ruch/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BONUS: Crafting The Nut Job: A Deep Dive with Brendan Ruch</a></p><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/bonus-a-deep-dive-into-the-swingin-d-techniques-and-tips-with-mike-schultz-the-butcher-shop/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BONUS: A Deep Dive into the Swingin' D: Techniques and Tips with Mike Schultz</a></p><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s6-ep-124-chase-smith-spiral-spook/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">S6, Ep 124: Fly Tying with Chase Smith</a></p><h2><strong>Connect with Our Guest</strong></h2><p>Follow <a href="http://greatlakesfly.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Eli</a> on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/greatlakesfly/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>.</p><h2>Follow the...
April 10, 2026
<h2>Episode Overview</h2><p>In this episode of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash sits down with Aaron Chine, guide at <a href="https://www.steelheadalleyoutfitters.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Steelhead Alley Outfitters</a> and accomplished visual artist based in Warren, Ohio, for a wide-ranging conversation about the intersection of fishing, guiding and fine art. Aaron came to fly fishing through Pennsylvania trout streams in his early teens and eventually found his way to Steelhead Alley through a mentorship network that includes Jeff Blood and Nate Miller, two of the fishery's most respected veterans. He joined <a href="https://www.steelheadalleyoutfitters.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Steelhead Alley Outfitters</a> when Justin Schachilli and Patrick Robinson took over from Greg Senyo and has been guiding there ever since. The episode covers the full arc of Aaron's guiding career on Steelhead Alley, his philosophy on what makes a great guide and the seasonal rhythm of the Lake Erie tributary steelhead fishery from fall through early spring. On the art side, Aaron discusses his work in oil painting and murals — including a landmark 130-foot mural on the <a href="https://scientificanglers.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Scientific Anglers</a> building in Midland, Michigan — his tattooing career at <a href="https://theboxgallerytattoos.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Box Gallery</a> and his perspective on the story and soul that human-made art carries in an age of AI-generated imagery. Upcoming <a href="https://www.orvis.com/fly-fishing" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Orvis</a> collaborations round out the conversation.</p><h2>Key Takeaways</h2><ul><li>Why finding migratory steelhead requires covering water aggressively rather than returning to yesterday's productive spots</li><li>How the guide season on Steelhead Alley runs from fall through early spring, with November and March as peak periods</li><li>Why showing clients a good time on the water — not just maximizing fish counts — defines long-term success as a guide</li><li>How using a grid method at large scale allows muralists to maintain proportion across massive public installations</li><li>Why the story behind human-made art creates value and staying power that AI-generated imagery cannot replicate</li><li>How fishing and fine art intersect as sustainable parallel careers when neither alone provides full financial stability</li></ul><br/><h2>Techniques & Gear Covered</h2><p>This episode is more biographical than tactical, so the fishing content skews toward guiding philosophy and fishery structure rather than specific techniques or rigs. Aaron explains that steelhead on Steelhead Alley are migratory fish that move constantly, which means guides must put in the legwork to locate fish rather than relying on prior knowledge of productive lies — a discipline he credits largely to early mentors Jeff Blood and Nate Miller. He notes that tougher, more spread-out seasons demand even more aggressive water-covering to stay on fish. On the art side, Aaron discusses his medium in detail: he works primarily in oil on canvas, uses a grid-based scaling method for large murals and approaches large-scale work one block at a time to maintain proportion — the same technique taught in middle school art class, simply executed at 2-foot-by-2-foot scale. <a href="https://scientificanglers.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Scientific Anglers'</a> signature red paint featured heavily in the SA building mural, which consumed 24 gallons of paint over seven days.</p><h2>Locations & Species</h2><p>Steelhead Alley is the fishery at the center of this episode — specifically the Lake Erie tributaries along the Ohio-Pennsylvania-New York border, including Conneaut Creek and Cattaraugus Creek (the latter referenced in passing as Marvin's own experience fishing it with Jeff Blood). Steelhead are the primary target throughout the fall and spring seasons, with the fishery operating from roughly September or October through freeze-up in winter, and again through mid-April in spring. Aaron notes that conditions this season and last fall have featured more spread-out fish than peak years, reinforcing the fishery's migratory and weather-dependent nature. For summer fun fishing once the guiding season wraps, Aaron looks forward to smallmouth, pike and musky from a raft — a deliberately lower-pressure complement to the intensity of steelhead season.</p><h2>FAQ / Key Questions Answered</h2><h3>How does the guide season on Steelhead Alley typically run?</h3><p>Aaron describes a two-peak season: fall, running from September or October through early December or freeze-up, with November as the prime window; and spring, with March as the busiest month and trips running through mid-April. January and February fishing is weather-dependent — this year, freeze-up shut it down entirely. Guides work essentially every day during peak periods.</p><h3>What's the key to being a successful steelhead guide?</h3><p>Aaron's answer centers on showing clients a good time rather than chasing maximum fish counts. He acknowledges that guides naturally want to put big numbers in the net, but argues that good clients primarily want to experience the fishery, learn to cast and run better drifts and enjoy time on the water — particularly in seasons when fish are spread out and harder to locate.</p><h3>Why does finding steelhead require so much mobile, aggressive water coverage?</h3><p>Because steelhead are migratory fish that move constantly, productive lies from one day can be completely empty the next. Aaron emphasizes putting miles on the boots and staying mobile, especially in lower-fish-density seasons. This is a foundational piece of Steelhead Alley guiding culture, reinforced by mentors like Jeff Blood and Nate Miller.</p><h3>How did Aaron approach painting the massive Scientific Anglers mural in Midland, Michigan?</h3><p>Aaron divided the 130-foot wall into 2-foot-by-2-foot grid squares and treated each block as its own self-contained piece, maintaining proportion across the full installation. He worked from sun-up to sundown for seven straight days to complete it before the 80th anniversary party. The project used 24 gallons of paint, including eight gallons of Scientific Anglers red for the background alone.</p><h3>How does Aaron think about the threat AI poses to visual artists working in the fishing and outdoor space?</h3><p>Aaron acknowledges that AI can produce visually competent imagery quickly and without paying an artist, but argues that it lacks the story and soul behind human-made work. He believes audiences — and fellow artists especially — can spot AI imagery immediately, and that the personal narrative connecting an artist to their work is ultimately what creates lasting value and authentic connection with buyers and fans.</p><h2>Related Content</h2><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s7-ep-18-codys-fish/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">S7, Ep 18 – License to Fish: The Intersection of Art and Angling with Cody Richardson of Cody's Fish</a></p><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s3-ep-145-all-things-steelhead-alley-with-jeff-blood-part-i/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">S3, Ep 145 – All Things Steelhead Alley with Jeff Blood (Part I)</a></p><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s3-ep-153-all-things-steelhead-alley-with-jeff-blood-part-ii/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">S3, Ep 153 – All Things Steelhead Alley with Jeff Blood (Part II)</a></p><p><a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com/s6-ep-97-fly-fishing-wisdom-and-industry-pet-peeves-with-greg-senyo/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">S6, Ep 97 – Fly Fishing Wisdom and Industry Pet Peeves with Greg Senyo</a></p><h2><strong>Connect with Our Guest</strong></h2><p>Follow Aaron on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/aaronchineart/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>.</p><p>Follow <a href="https://theboxgallerytattoos.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Box Gallery</a> on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/theboxgallery_tattoos/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>.</p><p>Follow <a href="https://www.steelheadalleyoutfitters.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Steelhead Alley Outfitters</a> on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/steelhead_alley_outfitters" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>.</p><h2>Follow the Show</h2><p>Follow <a href="https://fly-fishing-podcast.thearticulatefly.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Articulate Fly</a> on <a href="https://www.facebook.com/thearticulatefly" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Facebook</a>, <a href="https://www.instagram.com/thearticulatefly/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a>, <a href="https://www.threads.com/@thearticulatefly?xmt=AQF0VLj314Z_G910nAh8-ilrIZiwr8fzr4tZBWxaNNqyvCY" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Threads</a> and <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/TheArticulateFly" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">YouTube</a>.</p><p>Follow our <a href="https://thearticulatefly.substack.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Substack newsletter</a> for episode updates, tips and resources.</p><h2><strong>Support the Show</strong></h2><p>Shop through our <a href="https://www.amazon.com/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&language=en_US&linkCode=sl2&linkId=ea717321828075eabd3b608fd6895f82&tag=thearticulate-20" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Amazon link</a> to support the podcast.</p><p>Join our <a href="https://www.patreon.com/thearticulatefly" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Patreon community</a> to support the show.</p><p>If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck,...
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The Long Haul Fly Fishing Podcast with The Articulate Fly regularly releases interviews with national and regional personalities covering fly fishing, fly tying and fly fishing travel. If you love The Articulate Fly Fly Fishing Podcast interviews but would like to skip the fishing reports, The Long Haul is for you!
To learn more or to check out The Articulate Fly Fly Fishing Podcast (interviews and fishing reports), visit www.thearticulatefly.com.
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