When The Wolves Came

About When The Wolves Came

Over the last decade, large swaths of evangelicals in the U.S. have embraced an extremist politics that threatens to turn our democracy into a theocracy. Through the eyes of one pastor in Phoenix, WHEN THE WOLVES CAME shows how some evangelicals are banding together to fight back – and how their efforts can fit into a bigger movement to defend democracy in the U.S. Hosted by Dr. Ruth Braunstein, When The Wolves Came: Evangelicals Resisting Extremism is a six-part audio documentary launching March 4 that follows this story. About Dr. Braunstein: Ruth Braunstein (https://www.ruthbraunstein.com/podcast) is an award-winning sociologist who studies religion, politics, and money. She is Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, where she leads the Meanings of Democracy Lab, which researches the growing resistance to Christian Nationalism. As part of this work, she created and hosts the audio documentary When the Wolves Came: Evangelicals Resisting Extremism. Her forthcoming book, My Tax Dollars: The Morality of Taxpaying in America (https://bookshop.org/p/books/my-tax-dollars-the-morality-of-taxpaying-in-america-ruth-braunstein-sullivan/21508358?ean=9780691254999&next=t&affiliate=104582), explores how taxpaying has become a moral battleground in public life. WhenTheWolvesCame.org (http://whenthewolvescame.org/)

Publisher

Meanings of Democracy Lab

Category

news · society & culture

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

18 Feb 2025

Latest episode

5 Aug 2025

Latest episodes

8 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   5 Aug 2025

   7: WTWC x The Right Kind of Family: The “Natural Family” Movement

   Reporters CLAUDIA TORRISI, ELSA CABRIA, FRANCESCA BERARDI, and LILI RUTAI investigate the rise of conservative and far-right organizations impacting sexual and reproductive health rights across Europe in the name of the "natural family."

2. 

   8 Apr 2025

   6: David and Goliath

   The new Trump Administration may openly embrace white Christian nationalism, but Pastor Caleb and other evangelical resistors are gaining momentum. They’re connecting to a bigger pro-democracy movement where faith groups and secular groups are uneasily allied against theocracy. Show Notes: Learn more and Follow Ruth Braunstein’s Substack. Episode Guests: Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/ Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University.  Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. Lionel Estrada is a father, grandfather, Jesus follower, worship leader, songwriter and addiction/trauma therapist from Phoenix, AZ. He has been a member of Desert Springs Bible Church for almost 20 years. Jemar Tisby is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the Church's Complicity in Racism, How to Fight Racism, and How to Fight Racism: Young Reader's Edition. He is also a Professor of History at Simmons College of Kentucky in Louisville. Jemar is the co-host of the "Pass the Mic" podcast. Napp Nazworth, Ph.D., is Executive Director of American Values Coalition. He previously worked in academia teaching courses in U.S. government, Congress, and religion and politics; and as a journalist, serving as opinion editor and politics editor for The Christian Post. Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.me For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

3. 

   1 Apr 2025

   5: Down the Rabbit Hole

   We attend a Christian nationalist event shortly before the 2024 election and talk to an extremism expert about how to prevent radicalization. One QAnon believer changes his tune with the help of Pastor Caleb and his church. Show Notes: Learn more: Multi-faith Neighbors Network Peacemakers Toolkit and Disarming Leviathan Episode Guests: Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/ Dr. Cynthia Miller-Idriss is a Professor in the School of Public Affairs and in the School of Education at the American University in Washington, DC, where she is also the founding director of the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab. John Thielepape is Director of Projects at GlocalNet and Multi-faith Neighbors Network in Keller, TX.  John attended Belmont University, Baylor University, and Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary obtaining BBA, Master of Divinity, and Doctor of Ministry degrees. Lionel Estrada is a father, grandfather, Jesus follower, worship leader, songwriter and addiction/trauma therapist from Phoenix, AZ. He has been a member of Desert Springs Bible Church for almost 20 years. Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ.  Nathan joined the DSBC board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there. For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

4. 

   25 Mar 2025

   4: Fight or Flight

   Evangelical leaders horrified by the extremism in their churches wonder: Is it better to break ties with people who you believe are dangerously wrong – or try to lead them out of the dark? Pastor Caleb comes up with a surprising plan. Show Notes Episode Guests: Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ. Nathan joined the DSBC board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there. Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. Jared Stacy (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is an ethicist and theologian based in Washington DC. His research focuses on evangelical theology, digital media, and political extremisms, particularly conspiracy theory and mis/disinformation. Jemar Tisby is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the Church's Complicity in Racism, How to Fight Racism, and How to Fight Racism: Young Reader's Edition. He is also a Professor of History at Simmons College of Kentucky in Louisville. Jemar is the co-host of the "Pass the Mic" podcast. Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

5. 

   18 Mar 2025

   3: The Great Re-Sorting

   COVID-19 church closures, a summer of Black Lives Matter protests, and a tense Presidential election all fan the flames of white Christian nationalism. Two churches in Phoenix react in wildly different ways, with dramatic results. Content warning: this episode includes a depiction of police violence that might be disturbing to some listeners. Show Notes: Learn more: Religious Change in America | PRRI Episode Guests: Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/ Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University.  Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. Linda Morris was called to the ministry in 1986 and has served at the First Pentecostal Church, the Mountain States Council and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World including being a founding member of the PAW Single People’s Alliance and a former member of the Convention Evangelism Outreach Services (C.E.O.S.). She recently led the Surge Network Women In Leadership and serves as Outreach Director at First Pentecostal Church where she also teaches biblical worldview, wholistic ministry, and evangelism and outreach for the church’s discipleship classes and other groups Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.me Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future. Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ.  Nathan joined the Desert Springs Bible Church board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there. For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

6. 

   11 Mar 2025

   2: Rise of the MAGAchurch

   Political divisions within Pastor Caleb’s church and at a leading Christian magazine reveal how predominantly white evangelical spaces became hothouses for Christian nationalism. Republican politics, militant masculinity and QAnon conspiracy theories all contribute to its spread. Show Notes: Learn more: The Persistence of QAnon in the Post-Trump Era: An Analysis of Who Believes the Conspiracies | PRRI Episode Guests: Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/ Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future. Napp Nazworth, Ph.D., is Executive Director of American Values Coalition. He previously worked in academia teaching courses in U.S. government, Congress, and religion and politics; and as a journalist, serving as opinion editor and politics editor for The Christian Post. Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. Lionel Estrada is a father, grandfather, Jesus follower, worship leader, songwriter and addiction/trauma therapist from Phoenix, AZ. He has been a member of Desert Springs Bible Church for almost 20 years. For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

7. 

   4 Mar 2025

   1: A Tale of Two Churches

   A Phoenix pastor and former-Neo Nazi skinhead realizes that many of his fellow evangelicals have embraced religious extremism after the 2016 election.

8. 

   18 Feb 2025

   Coming Soon - When The Wolves Came

   A brand new documentary series about the evangelicals fighting extremism in the Church.

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

4.9 / 5

167 ratings

Podcast Authority Score: 25 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

13

Social presence

0

YouTube

0

Engagement

91

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