When Will They Learn?
Hosted by Greg Ashman and Caiti Wade
5.0from 5 ratings
- 20
- Episodes
- 5
- Ratings
- Bi-weekly
- Cadence
- 2026
- First episode
About When Will They Learn?
Hosted by Greg Ashman and Caiti Wade, ‘When Will They Learn?’ explores what’s trending in the world of education. Each episode, Greg and Caiti engage with podcasts, articles and opinions shaping education discourse, examining these through a science of learning lens. They discuss not just what’s popular, but what’s supported by the evidence. whenwilltheylearn.substack.com (https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast)
- Publisher
- Hosted by Greg Ashman and Caiti Wade
- Category
- education · education
- Language
- en
- Explicit
- No
- First episode
- 5 Feb 2026
- Latest episode
- 29 Oct 2026
Latest episodes
20 episodes in the feed.
29 Oct 2026
Episode #20 Fighting fascism by not listening to podcasts
After a bit of a sidestep into how we’re each using AI, Greg and Caiti jump into a conversation about ‘rote learning’ and a startling claim that it’s driving preservice teachers out of the profession. We argue that explicit teaching is more than just slide decks and explore how teacher training, shared curriculum and school-system structures shape successful implementation. The conversation then moves onto the brilliant Sold a Story podcast and some of the reactions to it, including the arguments being made against it. Greg and Caiti unpack some of these criticisms, discuss the difference between Direct Instruction (‘big DI’) and direct instruction (‘little DI’), and consider what the debate reveals about how evidence-informed teaching is represented and challenged. Finally, we discover that the fight against fascism might be simpler than we thought: apparently, all you need to do is not listen to podcasts. At least, that’s the case according to one rather interesting response to Sold a Story. Want to get in touch? Reach out on our socials Get in touch on any of our socials below! We get a lot of listener requests, but will try to cover as many of your suggestions as possible. Greg Ashman Greg is a school leader at Ballarat Clarendon College and holds a PhD in instructional design from UNSW. Substack – Filling the Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/) LinkedIn – Greg Ashman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-ashman-phd-790b59ab/) X/Twitter – @greg_ashman (https://x.com/greg_ashman) If you’re interested in working with Greg at Ballarat Clarendon College, please see here for open roles and expressions of interest (https://www.clarendon.vic.edu.au/about/employment). Caiti Wade Caiti is a leader of pedagogy at a boys’ secondary school in Brisbane, education consultant and is doing her doctorate in cognitive science. Substack – The Disruptive Educator (https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/) LinkedIn – Caiti Wade (https://www.linkedin.com/in/caiti-wade-961779138/) X/Twitter – @caiti_wade (https://x.com/caiti_wade) Episode resources * Why ‘rote learning’ mandate is driving new teachers away | The Adelaide (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjSuNedkt-XAxX1ha8BHdYAGZwQFnoECCUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.adelaidenow.com.au%2Feducation%2Fschools-hub%2Fprimary%2Fteachers-treated-like-machines-as-new-graduates-abandon-the-classroom-after-finishing-a-degree%2Fnews-story%2Fdbb3525e7816e84c1194395408ae0d12&usg=AOvVaw3Ouh2TQOW6hViPOEfRlQr6&opi=89978449) * Rote is back. Or at least something very like it - EduResearch Matters (https://blog.aare.edu.au/2026/10/19/rote-is-back-or-at-least-something-very-like-it/) * Sold a Story | Podcast (https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/) * The argument against Sold a Story that proves why we need it | Filling the Pail Substack (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/p/the-argument-against-sold-a-story) * Selling a story that’s lost the plot - by Benjamin Riley (https://buildcognitiveresonance.substack.com/p/selling-a-story-thats-lost-the-plot) * Curios of the week #190 - by Greg Ashman - Filling The Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/p/curios-of-the-week-190) * Direct instruction is the American default | Michael Pershan (https://pershmail.substack.com/p/direct-instruction-is-the-american) Acknowledgement of country We would like to acknowledge The Traditional Custodians of the lands on which we record this podcast, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and the lands of the Jagera and Turrbal Peoples, and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit whenwilltheylearn.substack.com (https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)
15 Oct 2026
Episode #19 What even is restorative practice?
What even is restorative practice? That’s a question that Greg and Caiti try to answer on this week’s episode of When Will They Learn? podcast. Spurred on by recent newspaper coverage on restorative practice, they delve into what it is and whether it could be effective - and what for. The conversation centres around consequences and whether ‘punitive’ measures are considered consequences in restorative practice models, and more broadly, what the role of consequences is within education. The conversation then moves onto a pretty bad newspaper headline that doesn’t at all reflect research conducted by Trisha Jha for the Centre for Independent Studies. We talk about what the newest paper by CIS covers, some of the media reaction to it, and learning styles - the neuromyth that never dies. Finally, we move onto talking about the decline of results in Wales and the reasons for this. We talk about curriculum, phonics and whether or not Wales is likely to follow on from the likes of England. And when we thought it was over, another detail in the ongoing mystery of ACPUE enters the chat. Want to get in touch? Reach out on our socials Get in touch on any of our socials below! We get a lot of listener requests, but will try to cover as many of your suggestions as possible. Greg Ashman Greg is a school leader at Ballarat Clarendon College and holds a PhD in instructional design from UNSW. Substack – Filling the Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/) LinkedIn – Greg Ashman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-ashman-phd-790b59ab/) X/Twitter – @greg_ashman (https://x.com/greg_ashman) If you’re interested in working with Greg at Ballarat Clarendon College, please see here for open roles and expressions of interest (https://www.clarendon.vic.edu.au/about/employment). Caiti Wade Caiti is a leader of pedagogy at a boys’ secondary school in Brisbane, education consultant and is doing her doctorate in cognitive science. Substack – The Disruptive Educator (https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/) LinkedIn – Caiti Wade (https://www.linkedin.com/in/caiti-wade-961779138/) X/Twitter – @caiti_wade (https://x.com/caiti_wade) Episode resources * Restorative justice: Why Vic parents and experts say school bullying fix is failing kids | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/education/regions/victoria/schools-say-restorative-justice-deals-with-bullying-but-parents-and-experts-say-theyre-doing-it-wrong/news-story/f5ea71f16fb064d6cc645dd30db4f26f) * Curios of the week #188 - by Greg Ashman - Filling The Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/p/curios-of-the-week-188) * Caiti’s recent Substack: the convenient argument - by Caiti Wade - The Disruptive Educator (https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/p/the-convenient-argument) * Nine in 10 teachers ‘getting it wrong’ in Australian classrooms / The other title | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/education/schools-hub/primary/most-australian-teachers-are-getting-it-wrong-amid-federal-push-for-major-classroom-overhaul/news-story/cf7530faba4773855b4ca70255569284) * Knowledge-is-Power-Pt-II.pdf | CIS paper | Trisha Jha (https://www.cis.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2026/10/Knowledge-is-Power-Pt-II.pdf) * Trisha Jha’s Substack on Knowledge is Power Pt II (https://publicanpolicy.substack.com/p/people-keep-arguing-what-teachers?r=270tc7&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer) * Wales has the UK’s worst school results by far. We investigated why | ITVNews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FSIfPjXGeE&t=3s) * ACPUE Preprint Paper | Do the sources support the claims? Claim–source correspondence in an Australian evidence-intermediary report (https://osf.io/preprints/edarxiv/qs4pm_v2) Acknowledgement of country We would like to acknowledge The Traditional Custodians of the lands on which we record this podcast, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and the lands of the Jagera and Turrbal Peoples, and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit whenwilltheylearn.substack.com (https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)
1 Oct 2026
Episode #18 Department for Despair
In this episode, Greg and Caiti begin with ACPUE, who are back to reassure everyone that their work is absolutely not a targeted attack on AERO, despite it appearing as though it is exactly that. We look at the newest defence of their work and how that stands up against their own claims and the broader suite of future projects listed on their website. From there, we head to the UK (figuratively) and Lucy Powell’s address on the future of schooling, including proposals for new vocational pathways, all coming through the wonderfully optimistic-sounding Department for Hope. Unfortunately, the proposals and history of education reforms in the UK might suggest that there are lesser grounds for hope than one might hope with these new pathways. Then it’s back to Australia for a discussion of ten strawmen of the Science of Learning. We work through some of Penny Van Bergen’s terrific arguments against the made-up versions of the Science of Learning that are often seen posted all over media. And finally, just when we thought we were done, a university posts something that stops us in our tracks. Listen to find out more about the big shocker. Want to get in touch? Reach out on our socials Get in touch on any of our socials below! We get a lot of listener requests, but will try to cover as many of your suggestions as possible. Greg Ashman Greg is a school leader at Ballarat Clarendon College and holds a PhD in instructional design from UNSW. Substack – Filling the Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/) LinkedIn – Greg Ashman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-ashman-phd-790b59ab/) X/Twitter – @greg_ashman (https://x.com/greg_ashman) If you’re interested in working with Greg at Ballarat Clarendon College, please see here for open roles and expressions of interest (https://www.clarendon.vic.edu.au/about/employment). Caiti Wade Caiti is a leader of pedagogy at a boys’ secondary school in Brisbane, education consultant and is doing her doctorate in cognitive science. Substack – The Disruptive Educator (https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/) LinkedIn – Caiti Wade (https://www.linkedin.com/in/caiti-wade-961779138/) X/Twitter – @caiti_wade (https://x.com/caiti_wade) Episode resources * Academics behind new AERO critique say it’s no targeted take down — EducationHQ (https://educationhq.com/news/academics-behind-new-aero-critique-say-its-no-targeted-take-down-215352/) * Episode #16 A Load of ACPUE | When Will They Learn? Podcast | Caiti Wade and Greg Ashman (https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com/p/episode-16-a-load-of-acpue) * Attacking AERO the pedantic way | Greg Ashman, Filling the Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/p/attacking-aero-the-pedantic-way) * Who is behind the Australian Centre for the Public Understanding of Education? | Greg Ashman, Filling the Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/p/who-is-behind-the-australian-centre) * what’s the deal with acpue? | Caiti Wade, The Disruptive Educator (https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/p/whats-the-deal-with-acpue) * Projects · Australian Centre for the Public Understanding of Education | ACPUE (https://acpue.org/projects/) * Deputy leader Lucy Powell addresses party conference - her speech in full - LabourList (https://labourlist.org/2026/09/deputy-leader-lucy-powell-addresses-party-conference-her-speech-in-full/) * Bringing back stupid - by Greg Ashman - Filling The Pail (https://fillingthepail.substack.com/p/bringing-back-stupid) * The Ten Strawmen of the Science of Learning - EduResearch Matters | Penny Van Bergen (https://blog.aare.edu.au/2026/09/28/the-ten-strawmen-of-the-science-of-learning/) * Find out what kind of learner you are | Open Universities (https://www.open.edu.au/advice/insights/revealed-what-kind-of-learner-are-you?j=6376950&sfmc_sub=690080040&l=45046_HTML&u=200859958&mid=7304777&jb=1753&utm_medium=email&utm_source=salesforce-marketing-cloud&utm_campaign=nurture_newsletter-campaign_lifecycle&utm_term=commercial&utm_content=newsletter-campaign_ct-2150_sep26) * Learning Styles: Concepts and Evidence - PubMed | Pashler et al. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26162104/) Acknowledgement of country We would like to acknowledge The Traditional Custodians of the lands on which we record this podcast, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and the lands of the Jagera and Turrbal Peoples, and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit whenwilltheylearn.substack.com (https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)
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- Spotify
- 5.0 / 5
- 4 ratings
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