Hosted by Greg Ashman and Caiti Wade, ‘When Will They Learn?’ explores what’s trending in the world of education. Each episode, Greg and Caiti engage with podcasts, articles and opinions shaping education discourse, examining these through a science of learning lens. They discuss not just what’s popular, but what’s supported by the evidence. <br/><br/><a href="https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast">whenwilltheylearn.substack.com</a>
When Will They Learn?
Claim This Podcastby Hosted by Greg Ashman and Caiti Wade
5.0(1 reviews)
10 episodes
Updated Daily
Accepts GuestsHas SponsorsLocation 🇦🇺
Podcast Overview
Hosted by Greg Ashman and Caiti Wade, ‘When Will They Learn?’ explores what’s trending in the world of education. Each episode, Greg and Caiti engage with podcasts, articles and opinions shaping education discourse, examining these through a science of learning lens. They discuss not just what’s popular, but what’s supported by the evidence. <br/><br/><a href="https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast">whenwilltheylearn.substack.com</a>
Language
🇺🇲
Publishing Since
2/5/2026
1 verified contact email on file for When Will They Learn?
Pitch yourself as a guest, propose sponsorships, or reach out directly to the host.
Recent Episodes
June 11, 2026
Episode #10 All Ashman's Fault
<p>In this episode of When Will They Learn?, Greg and Caiti tackle a stack of education policy debates - beginning with the most pressing and meta question of all: is it, in fact, all Ashman’s fault?</p><p>From claims that evidence-informed approaches have reduced teaching to “death by PowerPoint” and scripting, to the shift from the reading wars to the emerging learning wars, the conversation explores how policy, ideology and evidence continue to shape the education landscape.</p><p>The pair also unpack proposals to assess students’ use of AI in NAPLAN, asking what schools are actually for and why writing still matters in an age of generative technology. Finally, they discuss NAPLAN’s role as an accountability measure and whether it can help schools identify ineffective teaching practices.</p><p>It’s policy-heavy, slightly controversial, and somehow, it all comes back to Ashman.</p><p><strong>Have something you want us to discuss in a future episode? Or want to find us?</strong></p><p>Get in touch on any of our socials below!</p><p><strong>Greg Ashman</strong></p><p>Greg is a school leader at Ballarat Clarendon College and holds a PhD in instructional design from UNSW.</p><p>Substack – <a target="_blank" href="https://fillingthepail.substack.com/">Filling the Pail</a></p><p>LinkedIn – <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-ashman-phd-790b59ab/">Greg Ashman</a></p><p>X/Twitter – <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/greg_ashman">@greg_ashman</a></p><p>If you’re interested in working with Greg at Ballarat Clarendon College, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.clarendon.vic.edu.au/about/employment">please see here for open roles and expressions of interest</a>.</p><p><strong>Caiti Wade</strong></p><p>Caiti is a leader of pedagogy at a boys’ secondary school in Brisbane, education consultant and is doing her doctorate in cognitive science.</p><p>Substack – <a target="_blank" href="https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/">The Disruptive Educator</a></p><p>LinkedIn – <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/caiti-wade-961779138/">Caiti Wade</a></p><p>X/Twitter – <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/caiti_wade">@caiti_wade</a></p><p><strong>Episode resources</strong></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://mathematicalcrap.com/2026/06/06/a-meditation-upon-that-doctrine-commonly-styled-explicite-teachynge-together-with-those-instruments-of-instruction-known-as-power-poyntes-and-scriptes-wherein-it-is-observd-that-the-latter-are-nei/">Marty’s Blog with the long title on Ashman and Ochre (Warning: explicit language)</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/the-reading-wars-are-over-the-learning-wars-are-just-beginning-20260602-p6033z.html">Victorian schools: The reading wars are over. The learning wars are just beginning</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/principals-call-for-naplan-writing-test-to-be-axed/288963?hsmemberId=1522451&tu=e4fe4c5e-089a-486c-b825-0907ed90f8fc&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=20260527&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-897TtX8QRFikACIfJxxiCJspuhKjx048Oqfqzqja_G0K-a8JJsnV7Nfv0-WdHWlnou_z0C4jvSskz8hoUOYDbK_SbMZg&_hsmi=420736407&utm_content=e4fe4c5e-089a-486c-b825-0907ed90f8fc&utm_source=">Principals call for NAPLAN writing test to be axed | The Educator K/12</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.aeufederal.org.au/application/files/9717/7630/7832/128_EDUCATOR_Autumn_2026.pdf">Reimagining schools where teachers and students thrive - 128_EDUCATOR_Autumn_2026.pdf</a></p><p><strong>Acknowledgement of country</strong></p><p>We would like to acknowledge The Traditional Custodians of the lands on which we record this podcast, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and the lands of the Jagera and Turrbal Peoples, and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1">whenwilltheylearn.substack.com</a>
May 28, 2026
Episode #9 NEUROSCIENCE
<p>This episode’s theme is “neuroscience!” Actually, it’s not, but it comes up a few times. </p><p>Greg and Caiti kick things off by unpacking a recent article discussing potential limitations of cognitive load theory. They talk about where these sit within the current cognitive load theory research.</p><p>The conversation then takes an unexpected turn into information theory. What is information? Can meaning actually be transmitted? And what is the meaning of meaning? Expect a detour into entropy, whether it might have a role to play in cognitive load theory, and an unexpected (brief) defence of PowerPoint.</p><p>Finally, Greg and Caiti dive into the much-discussed attainment grouping report from the Education Endowment Foundation and University College London on mathematics grouping. What do the findings genuinely tell us? What are the limitations? And, most importantly, what should teachers and school leaders actually do when thinking about how to group students?</p><p><strong>Have something you want us to discuss in a future episode? Or want to find us?</strong></p><p>Get in touch</p><p><strong>Greg Ashman</strong></p><p>Greg is a school leader at Ballarat Clarendon College and holds a PhD in instructional design from UNSW.</p><p>Substack – <a target="_blank" href="https://fillingthepail.substack.com/">Filling the Pail</a></p><p>LinkedIn – <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-ashman-phd-790b59ab/">Greg Ashman</a></p><p>X/Twitter – <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/greg_ashman">@greg_ashman</a></p><p>If you’re interested in working with Greg at Ballarat Clarendon College, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.clarendon.vic.edu.au/about/employment">please see here for open roles and expressions of interest</a>.</p><p><strong>Caiti Wade</strong></p><p>Caiti is a leader of pedagogy at a boys’ secondary school in Brisbane, education consultant and is doing her doctorate in cognitive science.</p><p>Substack – <a target="_blank" href="https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/">The Disruptive Educator</a></p><p>LinkedIn – <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/caiti-wade-961779138/">Caiti Wade</a></p><p>X/Twitter – <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/caiti_wade">@caiti_wade</a></p><p><strong>Episode resources</strong></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://peterellerton.substack.com/p/beyond-cognitive-load-theory">Beyond Cognitive Load Theory - by Dr Peter Ellerton, PhD</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://theconversation.com/teaching-how-to-think-is-just-as-important-as-teaching-anything-else-46073">The Conversation Article [comment section]: Teaching how to think is just as important as teaching anything else</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/16/1/109">Beyond Cognitive Load Theory: Why Learning Needs More than Memory Management - Published Paper</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://christianmooreanderson.com/the-transmission-trap-what-information-theory-tells-us-about-teaching/">The Transmission Trap: What information theory tells us about teaching - Christian Moore Anderson</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/yfe9p_v1">OSF | Cognitive load theory and informational entropy - Greg Ashman Unpublished paper</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/projects-and-evaluation/projects/student-grouping-study">Student Grouping Study | EEF and UCL</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/p/attainment-grouping-and-the-eefucl">Caiti’s Substack summary of the EEF and UCL Report - attainment grouping & the eef/ucl report: choose your casualty</a></p><p><strong>Acknowledgement of country</strong></p><p>We would like to acknowledge The Traditional Custodians of the lands on which we record this podcast, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and the lands of the Jagera and Turrbal Peoples, and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1">whenwilltheylearn.substack.com</a>
May 14, 2026
Episode #8 The Autonomy Debate
<p>In this episode, Greg and Caiti discuss recent research into mobile phone bans in schools, exploring whether they’re actually effective and why schools may choose to implement them in the first place. They also unpack debates around teacher autonomy, low-variance teaching and standardised curriculum resources, questioning whether shared approaches are truly a threat to professionalism or a way to improve consistency and reduce workload. Finally, they explore critical thinking in the Australian Curriculum and the relationship between knowledge, thinking and evidence-informed practice.</p><p><strong>Have something you want us to discuss in a future episode? Or want to find us?</strong></p><p>Get in touch</p><p><strong>Greg Ashman</strong></p><p>Greg is a school leader at Ballarat Clarendon College and holds a PhD in instructional design from UNSW.</p><p>Substack – <a target="_blank" href="https://fillingthepail.substack.com/">Filling the Pail</a></p><p>LinkedIn – <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-ashman-phd-790b59ab/">Greg Ashman</a></p><p>X/Twitter – <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/greg_ashman">@greg_ashman</a></p><p>If you’re interested in working with Greg at Ballarat Clarendon College, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.clarendon.vic.edu.au/about/employment">please see here for open roles and expressions of interest</a>.</p><p><strong>Caiti Wade</strong></p><p>Caiti is a leader of pedagogy at a boys’ secondary school in Brisbane and is doing her EdD in applications of cognitive load theory to secondary mathematics.</p><p>Substack – <a target="_blank" href="https://thedisruptiveeducator.substack.com/">The Disruptive Educator</a></p><p>LinkedIn – <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/caiti-wade-961779138/">Caiti Wade</a></p><p>X/Twitter – <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/caiti_wade">@caiti_wade</a></p><p><strong>Episode resources</strong></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.the74million.org/article/five-things-to-know-about-largest-cell-phone-ban-study/">Five Things to Know About Largest Cellphone Ban Study – The 74</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://neu.org.uk/latest/library/are-you-slide-8-yet">“Are you on slide 8 yet?” | National Education Union</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://educationhq.com/news/australian-teachers-let-down-by-flawed-critical-thinking-capability-instructional-coach-209414/">Australian teachers let down by flawed critical thinking capability: instructional coach — EducationHQ</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://stephenvainker.substack.com/p/greg-ashmans-journey-to-misrepresenting">Greg Ashman’s journey to misrepresenting Hattie case - The Wreckage</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/@gregashman/note/c-251906750">Greg’s response to the above article from ‘The Wreckage’</a></p><p></p><p><strong>Acknowledgement of country</strong></p><p>We would like to acknowledge The Traditional Custodians of the lands on which we record this podcast, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and those of the Jagera and Turrbal Peoples, and pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://whenwilltheylearn.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1">whenwilltheylearn.substack.com</a>
10 total episodes available
Similar Podcasts
Discover related shows you might enjoy
Chalk & Talk
Anna Stokke
Progressively Incorrect
Zach Groshell
They Behave For Me
Adam Boxer and Amy Forrester
Chalk Dust
Nathaniel Swain
What's That Rash?
ABC Australia
Chat 10 Looks 3
Chat 10 Looks 3
Science of Reading: The Podcast
Amplify Education
Beyond Good
Matt Findlay and Femi Adeniran
Improving Teaching: Chalk and Change podcast with Harry Fletcher-Wood
Harry Fletcher-Wood
The Imperfects
Hugh van Cuylenburg, Ryan Shelton & Josh van Cuylenburg
Melissa & Lori Love Literacy ™
Supported by Great Minds
Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny
The Australian National University
Mind the Gap: Making Education Work Across the Globe
Tom Sherrington & Emma Turner
7am
Solstice Media
Teacher Takeaway
Teacher Takeaway
Deep-dive analytics for When Will They Learn?
Frequently asked questions
Have a different question and can't find the answer you're looking for? Reach out to our support team by sending us an email and we'll get back to you as soon as we can.
- What is When Will They Learn??
- How often does this podcast release new episodes?
This podcast updates daily.
- Where can I listen to this podcast?
This podcast is available on 4 platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more. You can also use the RSS feed directly.
- Does this podcast accept guests?
No, this podcast does not typically feature guests.
Legal Disclaimer
Pod Engine is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or officially connected with any of the podcasts displayed on this platform. We operate independently as a podcast discovery and analytics service.
All podcast artwork, thumbnails, and content displayed on this page are the property of their respective owners and are protected by applicable copyright laws. This includes, but is not limited to, podcast cover art, episode artwork, show descriptions, episode titles, transcripts, audio snippets, and any other content originating from the podcast creators or their licensors.
We display this content under fair use principles and/or implied license for the purpose of podcast discovery, information, and commentary. We make no claim of ownership over any podcast content, artwork, or related materials shown on this platform. All trademarks, service marks, and trade names are the property of their respective owners.
While we strive to ensure all content usage is properly authorized, if you are a rights holder and believe your content is being used inappropriately or without proper authorization, please contact us immediately at hey@podengine.ai for prompt review and appropriate action, which may include content removal or proper attribution.
By accessing and using this platform, you acknowledge and agree to respect all applicable copyright laws and intellectual property rights of content owners. Any unauthorized reproduction, distribution, or commercial use of the content displayed on this platform is strictly prohibited.