Unfiltered takes on the biggest shifts in marketing technology. We spotlight what matters, who's leading (or lagging), and what's next. In Martech, clarity is power — and we're here to deliver it.
Making Sense of Martech
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5.0(11 reviews)
122 episodes
Updated Weekly
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Podcast Overview
Unfiltered takes on the biggest shifts in marketing technology. We spotlight what matters, who's leading (or lagging), and what's next. In Martech, clarity is power — and we're here to deliver it.
Language
🇺🇲
Publishing Since
2/10/2021
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Recent Episodes
July 1, 2026
AI Was A Waste of Time, Until It Wasn't with Megan Boshuyzen
<p>"You should be layering AI on top of what you're already doing to make you more efficient. It should not be doing the bulk of the work. It should just be making you faster." — Megan</p><p><br>Email development has long been the graveyard of good design intentions where beautiful mockups meet the harsh reality of Outlook's rendering engine, dark mode disasters, and code that would make any web developer weep. But while most of the industry gets swept up in AI hype promising magical solutions, actual email developers are quietly discovering what works, what doesn't, and what's dangerously oversold.</p><p>Megan Boshuyzen, development lead at Inbox Army, brings a rare combination of technical depth and real-world perspective to the AI conversation. A graphic designer turned email developer, she's witnessed the evolution from Vertical Response in 2010 to today's complex email design systems. Her journey through MailGun, Email on Acid, and now agency-side development gives her insights few possess about where AI genuinely helps and where it spectacularly fails.</p><p>This is not a hype episode. It's a field report from someone doing the work and telling the truth about it.</p><p><strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>04:35 — AI Saved a Complex Liquid Build: When a client prohibited storing product data in a CRM, Megan used AI to work through intensive if-else Liquid logic, dynamically matching product data loaded into the email with conditional display in the ESP.</p><p>06:10 — ESPs Must Own Accessibility: Email service providers and drag-and-drop editors bear the primary responsibility for making their code accessible, not individual marketers who can't edit it — and many of the required fixes are not significant engineering lifts.</p><p>13:45 — The Photographer Analogy for Email Developers: AI democratizes email creation the way smartphones democratized photography, but just as professionals still get hired for what matters, skilled email developers will remain essential at the enterprise level.</p><p>19:07 — Building an Email Design System at an Agency: Megan breaks down the real complexity of building a multi-client email design system at Inbox Army, why e-com layouts demand more than she anticipated, and how Claude Code is helping her manage the JavaScript as it scales.</p><p>26:21 — From "AI Is Useless" to Cautiously Bought In: Megan traces her own two-year shift from dismissing AI entirely to finding genuine, specific use cases and explains why she still refuses to call it a magic bullet.</p><p>36:25 — AI Creates Mediocre Code: AI accelerates the creation of mediocre email code through a lowest-common-denominator approach, similar to how engineers encounter inefficient AI-generated code solutions.</p><p>44:35 — Build the Foundation Before AI: Developers who master coding fundamentals first and then layer AI on top will outlast those who build AI-dependent workflows because when something breaks, you need a foundation you actually understand.</p><p>46:55 — Quietly Terrified of Code: A large, silent portion of the email and martech industry is anxious about AI and code. This episode is designed to help them feel grounded and less alone, not more panicked.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Sponsor</strong></p><p>Brought to you by Hightouch, the leading composable CDP and decisioning platform trusted by brands like Domino's, Chime, and Aritzia. 90% of customers have a real use case live within their first week, delivering world-class personalization at scale. Learn more at <a href="http://hightouch.com/msom">hightouch.com/msom</a>.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Connect & Subscribe</strong></p><p>Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@msompodcast"> TikTok</a>,<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/making-sense-of-martech"> LinkedIn</a>, and don't forget to like and subscribe on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@msompodcast"> YouTube</a>.</p>
June 24, 2026
Ticket Taker vs. Problem Solver: Be Irreplaceable with Darrell Alfonso
<p>"I really think that most companies' problem isn't efficiency, oftentimes. It's just like a lack of direction, strategy, or, you know, bad leadership practices." - Darrell</p><p><br>This spring, commencement speakers were booed off the stage for telling graduates that AI is their future. Meanwhile, marketing ops teams are getting leaner, and job listings are down. The people who built careers on technical fluency are wondering if it's still enough.</p><p>Darrell Alfonso has lived on both sides of this. He led marketing ops at AWS and Indeed, wrote the book on the field (The Martech Handbook), and built a following with his newsletter, The Marketing Operations Leader, then got laid off himself last year.</p><p>In this episode, Darrell and Jacqueline pressure-test the AI-replacement narrative: what's actually driving layoffs, where AI can't replace human judgment, and why the cost-saving pitch is shakier than executives want to admit.</p><p>This is the hallway conversation the industry keeps having after the conference session ends.<br></p><p><strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>04:34 — AI Won't Fix Bad Leadership: Most AI use cases are internal efficiency plays. The real problem is usually a lack of direction or poor leadership, and AI can't fix that.</p><p><br></p><p>11:50 — Elevating the Ops Professional: AI disruption changes the climate, not the mission. Great ops professionals are problem solvers first.</p><p><br></p><p>17:03 — Layoffs Are the New Normal: Layoffs no longer signal a red flag on a resume. Hiring managers have had to catch up to that reality.</p><p><br></p><p>23:45 — The Future of Execution Roles: AI is pushing execution-layer work up the abstraction ladder toward strategy. Ticket-takers are already being displaced.</p><p><br></p><p>28:36 — AI Is Only Cheaper 23% of the Time: MIT found AI is only cheaper than humans for 23% of tasks. Uber's CTO burned through the entire 2026 AI budget in four months on tokens alone, and the cost story is messier than the pitch.</p><p><br></p><p>38:42 — The Personal Cost of a Layoff: Darrell on what the layoff cost him emotionally, and how reframing it as a signal instead of a failure changed his trajectory.</p><p><br></p><p>43:45 — Ops Is Creative Work: Ops is system design and problem-solving from scratch. That reframe changes how ops professionals should present themselves.</p><p><br></p><p>51:28 — Golden Age or Tipping Point: Darrell's answer: tipping point. The professionals who understand both the tech and the strategy will define what comes next.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Sponsor</strong></p><p>Brought to you by Hightouch, the leading composable CDP and decisioning platform trusted by brands like Domino's, Chime, and Aritzia. 90% of customers have a real use case live within their first week, delivering world-class personalization at scale. Learn more at <a href="http://hightouch.com/msom">hightouch.com/msom</a>.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Connect & Subscribe</strong></p><p>Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@msompodcast"> TikTok</a>,<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/making-sense-of-martech"> LinkedIn</a>, and don't forget to like and subscribe on<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@msompodcast"> YouTube</a>.</p>
June 17, 2026
Martech Tools Should Serve, Not Dictate with Bree Graham
Jacqueline Freedman interviews Bree Graham, former Afterpay growth leader, about building composable martech infrastructure that prioritizes customer experience over tool dictates.
122 total episodes available
Recent guests on Making Sense of Martech
Guests from recent episodes — sign up to see every guest that has ever appeared on this show.
Bree Graham
Guest
Sara McNamara
Guest
Scott Brinker
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Ian Reisman
Guest
Jeff Lee
Guest
Eloise Gillespie
Guest
Jacqueline
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Juan
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Satya Upadhyaya
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Linda Cereda
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Lauren Meyer
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Natalie Miles Fuerst
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This podcast updates weekly.
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