Three founders, Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal, discuss product strategy in the age of AI, wins/misses, and ultimately, how to build a better business and a better life.
It's the End of the World of Coding, And I Feel Fine
Is DHH right in his prediction that handcrafted coding is done, is trying to "be the best" the best strategy, and can you skip the hard work and just do the easy parts of product launching and still find success?
Chapters:
(00:11) - Welcome to the Panel Podcast
(03:04) - DHH's Flamethrower Keynote
(09:07) - The End of Handcrafting Code
(12:35) - Who Wants It the Most
(16:08) - Marketing with AI and Manual Grind
(24:56) - Being the Best in Your Category
(35:49) - Product Decision Making in 2026
(47:46) - Sam Altman's Advice on Focus
(54:01) - Risk and Opportunity in AI
(01:00:33) - Building vs Acquiring Businesses
(01:19:30) - The Independent Sponsor Model
(01:33:16) - Staying in Motion and Shipping
Links:
DHH keynote at Rails World (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDjW_dRyKXY)
Derrick Reimer on finding business ideas (https://www.derrickreimer.com/finding-ideas/)
Ruben Gamez tweet (https://x.com/earthlingworks/status/2105351938166632734)
Olly tweet (https://x.com/helloitsolly/status/2105292295935607045)
MicroConf Europe (https://microconf.com/europe?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
AngelList (https://www.angellist.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
TinySeed (https://tinyseed.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
Amp (https://ampcode.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
Grok (https://grok.com/)
Muse (https://ai.meta.com/muse/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
Instinct (https://instinct.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
Grok Bot (https://x.ai/news/introducing-grok-bot?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
ElevenLabs (https://elevenlabs.io/)
Reception.ai (https://reception.ai/)
DocuSign (https://www.docusign.com/)
Flywrite (https://flywrite.app/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
Mimeo (https://mimeohq.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
Miro (https://miro.com/)
Evernote (https://evernote.com/)
Bending Spoons (https://bendingspoons.com/)
19 Sept 2026
Eat Your Customer's Pain
We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web?
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job
09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth
14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for
19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked
22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature
27:02 - Founders need a point of view, not just a new tool
31:46 - PHP's culture keep Laravel grounded
35:25 - Justin's Vegas Retreat
45:10 - Introducing Jev, and how it's different from an LLM
58:23 - Rosie, ChatGPT Live, and whether full-stack agents are any good
62:16 - "Eat the pain" for your customers as a strategy
77:41 - Aaron's Astra 3D office walkthrough demo
81:11 - Are courses dead? Where dev education goes next
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message (https://oxtmdbpx.clarityflow.com/i/the-panel)
📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pB74jg1qWg)
🦋 Reply on Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:7nxol62kr4slo6zk6tnyfmbi/post/3mvtprbsal52g)
Links mentioned in this episode:
Jev announcement post (https://typesafe.ai/blog/introducing-system-one-models-and-jev)
Syntax: WTF is Jev? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbYBRjOaGOo)
Aaron's product - Solo (https://soloterm.com/)
Aaron's 3D modeling with Astra (https://x.com/aarondfrancis/status/2100715518013427745)
90s PC game: Incredible Machine (https://classicreload.com/play/dosx-the-incredible-machine.html#)
New Builder Methods page (https://buildermethods.com/)
Aaron Francis (https://aaronfrancis.com/)
Introducing GPT-Live | OpenAI (https://openai.com/index/introducing-gpt-live/)
TypeSafe AI (https://typesafe.ai/)
Free AI Voice Generator & Voice Agents Platform | ElevenLabs (https://elevenlabs.io/)
Compare AI Models: Pricing, Context & Benchmarks | OpenRouter (https://openrouter.ai/models)
5 Sept 2026
Finding Carol
Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder.
Chapters:
(00:10) - Welcome and Introduction
(00:30) - Jason Cohen's Hidden Multipliers
(06:46) - Growth Experiment Mode
(11:06) - New Ad Formats and Street Interviews
(20:05) - Unconventional Marketing Strategies
(38:23) - Low Energy and Company of One
(45:45) - Building Systems with AI Agents
(59:45) - Twitter Story and Workshop Updates
(01:10:13) - Spots.fm Marketplace Strategy
(01:22:09) - Buying vs Selling a Business
(01:31:33) - Separate Brands for Different Markets
(01:38:01) - Diversification and Exit Multiples
(01:41:11) - ARR vs EBITDA Valuation
(01:44:30) - Closing and Feedback
Mentioned in this episode:
Hidden Multipliers: Jumpstart Growth With Your Existing Budget and Team by Jason Cohen (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/255954489-hidden-multipliers)
Find Your Carol | Skills from A Smart Bear (https://skills.asmartbear.com/workshops/find-your-carol/)
Come to Charleston AI for all of your AI needs (r/TrueAnon) (https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/1w4fdyx/come_to_charleston_ai_for_all_of_your_ai_needs/)
OrbanAI — AI agents that run inside your systems (https://orban.ai/en/)
Tim Aton (@Tim_Aton) on X (https://x.com/Tim_Aton)
Company Of One: Why Staying Small Is the Next Big Thing for Business by Paul Jarvis (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/37570605-company-of-one)
Andrew Warner (@AndrewWarner) on X (https://x.com/AndrewWarner)
What Are Orbs? - Amp (https://ampcode.com/what-are-orbs)
Spots.fm — Sponsor independent creators (https://spots.fm/)
Kit: The Platform for Creators (https://kit.com/)
Who has been a guest on The Panel
Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.
Jordan Gal
BRIAN LOVE
Nadav Keyson
Aaron Francis
Adam Wathan
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
YouTube views
11,015
Score snapshot 15 Sept 2025
Apple Podcasts (US)
3.0 / 5
4 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 62 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
81
Social presence
0
YouTube
76
Engagement
31
Contact The Panel
Guest appearances
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Questions about The Panel
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Brian and Justin and Justin Jackson host the show. Published by Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, Jordan Gal.
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